CaptainMorgan Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 Just coming on completing my 6yr 18X commitment. I'm AGR ANG. I'm thinking of signing 12 year 35k bonus because I plan on doing 20yr. Does 18X qualify for the 100k up front for 12 year? Would it be smarter to just sign 8 year? Different bonus program for ANG than posted aboveSent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UDEL09 Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 (edited) Just confirmed with AvB Program office- no bonus options for 11R’s due to manning. The new fact sheets and documents are also on Mypers. Edited March 4, 2021 by UDEL09 Words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEA Posted March 4, 2021 Share Posted March 4, 2021 1 hour ago, UDEL09 said: Just confirmed with AvB Program office- no bonus options for 11R’s due to manning. The new fact sheets and documents are also on Mypers. No, the manning is terrible in 11R. I'm positive because I've asked 69 times to cross train and was told no due to manning. Also I asked to palace chase and was told no due to manning. There must be a mistake here?!?!! Or AFPC is just completely fucked. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youdontknowthis Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I don’t think I’ve seen a bigger slap in the face to a community than this. Absolutely shameful.Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Møøse Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 HAF/A1 devises these policies (with the agreement of all the MAJCOMs and CSAF); AFPC just administers it. Direct your hate in that direction. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pooter Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 I'm going to direct my hate like I direct my JASSMs: with poor timing and in all directions. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDAWG Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Just read it. Big old nope for me. The AF values rotary wing 11Hs as much as a in' Nav or ABM.Welcome to being treated second class. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youdontknowthis Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 When was the last time a pilot group wasn’t offered a bonus?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 8 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said: HAF/A1 devises these policies (with the agreement of all the MAJCOMs and CSAF); AFPC just administers it. Direct your hate in that direction. The whiplash will continue and it kills me to see these short-sighted decisions. Two years from now when everyone is running for the doors again they will re-rollout the "We care about you, what can we do to make it better" bullshit. This falls SQUARELY on the shoulders senior leadership that doesn't have the stones to stand up and tell Congress and others to help now to prevent chaos later. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homestar Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 We need a better union. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hub Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 The E-4 application that just dropped is another second order that probably wasn't considered...it carries an 11/12R reclass. Same with the U-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velosprints Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Dumb question, (because those are the only kind of questions I ask these days) but do any of these "agreements" prevent retirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigred Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Hub said: The E-4 application that just dropped is another second order that probably wasn't considered...it carries an 11/12R reclass. Same with the U-2 Stupid question perhaps, I’m assuming your referring to those guys that haven’t finished their initial UPT commitment and are considering a reclass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standby Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 Still somewhat unbelievable that there was no mention of 11R in the PSDM. I’m not an 11R so I have no clue as to what their life is really like or how their manning is perceived by those in the trenches...but to not even offer a bonus is a pretty bold move. Whether by design or through some sheer dumb publishing/copy +paste error it sends a very clear message. “Do you want ants?” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hub Posted March 5, 2021 Share Posted March 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Bigred said: Stupid question perhaps, I’m assuming your referring to those guys that haven’t finished their initial UPT commitment and are considering a reclass? It affects "initial eligible" and "contract-expired/non-contracted" since 11Rs are missing from both tiers. Flying a new MWS via the cross-flow/interview programs can change your core AFSC and primary DT functional. For example, you're an 11R that gets picked up by the 89th. You're now considered an 11M and managed by the MAF DT (think IDE, DT vectors, and Sq/CC boards). On the flip side, say you're an 11M that interviews and gets picked up by the E-4/U-2. You are now considered an 11R by core AFSC and managed by the CAF DT. The aviation bonus program uses the core ID to determine who is in what "tier" based on retention goals. Therefore, bonus for 89th pilot...no bonus for U-2/E-4 pilot. Another consideration in this is UPT. If you're an 11R that becomes a UPT instructor, you'll keep your core AFSC. This means that even though you're outside of an 11R flying community, you're still ineligible for this year's bonus based on the retention of core AFSC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEA Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Hub said: It affects "initial eligible" and "contract-expired/non-contracted" since 11Rs are missing from both tiers. Flying a new MWS via the cross-flow/interview programs can change your core AFSC and primary DT functional. For example, you're an 11R that gets picked up by the 89th. You're now considered an 11M and managed by the MAF DT (think IDE, DT vectors, and Sq/CC boards). On the flip side, say you're an 11M that interviews and gets picked up by the E-4/U-2. You are now considered an 11R by core AFSC and managed by the CAF DT. The aviation bonus program uses the core ID to determine who is in what "tier" based on retention goals. Therefore, bonus for 89th pilot...no bonus for U-2/E-4 pilot. Another consideration in this is UPT. If you're an 11R that becomes a UPT instructor, you'll keep your core AFSC. This means that even though you're outside of an 11R flying community, you're still ineligible for this year's bonus based on the retention of core AFSC. It's total dumbassery and it's likely going to cause the 11R community to topple. While on paper they are manned 120%, when you really examine the #'s all of that manning is copilots. The community has been overtasked to support RPAs and UPT and their expereinced dudes don't want to go back, so they get out. This is only going to exasperate that drain from the top end. The $$$ isn't as important as the perceived slap to the face, especially when so many volunteered to retrain as 11M or 11S bit were denied due to manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Majestik Møøse Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 Are EWOs also ineligible for the bonus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
di1630 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 This bonus pretty much says: “Hey, we know the people taking the bonus were probably going to stay anyhow. Maybe a few took short term bonuses while they built hours and polished up their guard/reserve/airline apps but that’s not what we want. We’ve (USAF) lost the battle for retention. We will reward those who after their 10+ year commitment, sign on to finish a career. We want loyalists, pilots who will do our will guaranteed to be at our whim until they retire. We are not interested in pilots who wish to ‘keep options open’ by failing to commit long term.”That’s how it reads to me. If you are unhappy with your options: quit.I wanted a short term bonus, of course I think I deserve it and the USAF is f-ing me over just like everyone else not getting it. It wasn’t offered. I’ll sport bitch but at the end of the day, if I don’t quit, I’m just bitching because I’m entitled. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuggyU2 Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 What's the take home pay after taxes on $15,000... $11,500? Based on working an 8-hour day, that is a a $5.53 per hour raise. Based on working a 10-hour day, that is a $4.42 per hour raise. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royal Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said: What's the take home pay after taxes on $15,000... $11,500? Based on working an 8-hour day, that is a a $5.53 per hour raise. Based on working a 10-hour day, that is a $4.42 per hour raise. The math checks. This should be a reminder to everyone: Have your financial house in order in perpetuity. The people that will come out ahead will be the ones that can take risks and absorb several months without steady income. Delta is set to ramp up operations and have been rumored to be placing deposit on simulator slots across the country and possibly the globe...Vote with your feet if you want to send a strong message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted March 6, 2021 Share Posted March 6, 2021 2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said: What's the take home pay after taxes on $15,000... $11,500? Based on working an 8-hour day, that is a a $5.53 per hour raise. Based on working a 10-hour day, that is a $4.42 per hour raise. Just reminds me why I ran the per-hour math once as a Capt and have consciously not thought about it from that perspective since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToHoldShort Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Can’t spend an extra 20k on a retention bonus but we can hire private company’s for pilot training... makes sense https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/08/air-force-wants-outsource-some-of-its-pilot-training-private-companies.html?fbclid=IwAR2okJ79PkaUBRRMBgNKwwQtnrLWtvt_z27PgGg7ynBtGmsGf9IFYqeuuUc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzdude Posted March 9, 2021 Share Posted March 9, 2021 Can’t spend an extra 20k on a retention bonus but we can hire private company’s for pilot training... makes sense https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/03/08/air-force-wants-outsource-some-of-its-pilot-training-private-companies.html?fbclid=IwAR2okJ79PkaUBRRMBgNKwwQtnrLWtvt_z27PgGg7ynBtGmsGf9IFYqeuuUcEvery pilot not instructing at UPT is a pilot somewhere more useful (operational unit, FTU, staff) where it may be harder to bring in contract help.Plus, taken with the latest bonus offering, the AF is putting all it's chips in growing it's way out of the retention problem. And the current UPT bases are maxed out. Based on the timing of the RFI, I'd wager the FY22 pilot bonus will look very similar to the FY21 bonus.End strength is capped, so spending money on contractors allows the AF to artificially increase manning without actually increasing manning.So contract out T-1/phase 3 for MAF (or T-6 direct), redirect those T-1 bodies either back to their MWS (relieve ops tempo) or to T-6 (to plus up production). Shift flying from T-6 to more time in IFS to build air sense cheaper. The costs might work out, at least until airline hiring starts up again, then the contractors may have trouble finding enough IPs to meet the contract. Though it might be an interesting post-AF job if you want to fly but not be away from home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 But can they grow their way out of the mishap problem? An aggressive bonus could keep experienced guys around to help train younger pilots which would help prevent some mishaps. Instead, they're going to save their budget dust and produce more pilots with that money to replace those apparently acceptable losses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bergman Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Smokin said: But can they grow their way out of the mishap problem? An aggressive bonus could keep experienced guys around to help train younger pilots which would help prevent some mishaps. Instead, they're going to save their budget dust and produce more pilots with that money to replace those apparently acceptable losses. Sadly, I think you’re right about what will end up happening. They SHOULD go aggressive with the bonus...$50-100k/yr. The current bonus is not even one month’s airline paycheck; not all that appealing (if money is what motivates you). I’d advocate for predictable schedules and decent leadership if the AF asked me. Edited March 10, 2021 by Bergman 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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