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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


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1 hour ago, war007afa said:

So currently stuck without network access betweeen AORs. What’s this talk of renegotiating?  Unable to access the PSDM. 

If you took the bonus prior to FY17 and it has not expired, you can renegotiate your contract. Problem is that it has to be a minimum of 3 years and is only for your current contract payout. You don't get the benefits of the FY19 rates. Not worth it.

Edited by Fifty-six & Two
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47 minutes ago, Fifty-six & Two said:

Not worth it.

None of the bonus is “worth it”, in terms of an incentive to stay on active duty longer than you otherwise would have, with money being the motivating factor.  It’s certainly free money for those who were going to stay anyway, though.  

The only reason it doesn’t go lower, or go away, is so that management can point to the low take rates in a couple years to help justify their request for stop loss.

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https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/06/11/ending-the-pilot-exodus-air-force-rolls-out-new-bonuses-incentives-will-it-work-this-time/

Apparently the AF rolled out new bonuses and incentives. Not just a year sign up extension for the same price. I haven’t seen These new programs. Has anyone else? And that goldfien even says that money isn’t the problem. Reading between the lines he blames sq cc’s.

Thoughts?

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24 minutes ago, Homestar said:

I think Goldfein is genuine in his desire to revitalize the squadrons. 

However, I think he undervalues the impact a real bonus would have on retention. 

That's our own fault for consistently saying "it's not about the money" for the last couple years.

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Goldfien thinks we are all volunteers and thus it doesn’t matter if we are pilots or not. Hence bonuses won’t really matter. We want to be motivated to follow non monetarily. At least that what his quotes seem to point at.

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“Goldfein, who spoke to Air Force Times June 2 and 3 during his trip to the 2018 Warrior Games at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colorado, said the Air Force has a list of 69 different initiatives to fix the pilot shortfall.”

Is the first initiative getting rid of Green Dot and permitting 69 jokes again?

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“Goldfein, who spoke to Air Force Times June 2 and 3 during his trip to the 2018 Warrior Games at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, Colorado, said the Air Force has a list of 69 different initiatives to fix the pilot shortfall.”

Is the first initiative getting rid of Green Dot and permitting 69 jokes again?

Like IHOP (now IHOb) are you going to change your user name?
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“Kwast and his instructors succeeded in “carving out a rather significant portion of the syllabus,” finding ways to incorporate new technologies and methods of instruction and overhaul how the Air Force builds new pilots without sacrificing standards, Goldfein said.”

Just saying you’re not sacrificing standards doesn’t make it so. You can’t slash 20% of the training and say you’re producing the same product.  

 

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Have you all actually seen progress with "revitalizing the squadrons?"

 

The main thing I've seen is copilot's with less flight time on arrival, and transferring additional duties to the front office--along with more aircrew because we don't actually have any admin troops.

Edited by raimius
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This is why I don’t understand why people like goldfien. He doesn’t have a grip on the reality he is partially responsible for creating and absolutely responsible for mis managing now. He thinks money won’t help? He thinks that the sq’s are revitalized? And he’s so wrong. So completely wrong.

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This is why I don’t understand why people like goldfien. He doesn’t have a grip on the reality he is partially responsible for creating and absolutely responsible for mis managing now. He thinks money won’t help? He thinks that the sq’s are revitalized? And he’s so wrong. So completely wrong.

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39 minutes ago, Guardian said:

This is why I don’t understand why people like goldfien. He doesn’t have a grip on the reality he is partially responsible for creating and absolutely responsible for mis managing now. He thinks money won’t help? He thinks that the sq’s are revitalized? And he’s so wrong. So completely wrong.

On the other hand, what's a guy supposed to believe when literally every time he sit downs to get the ground truth he is told that money won't help?

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15 minutes ago, Klepto said:

On the other hand, what's a guy supposed to believe when literally every time he sit downs to get the ground truth he is told that money won't help?

If you think of it from an opportunity cost standpoint (the cost of the opportunity forgone), you’re essentially paying $1m to stay in the AF. Then it becomes absolutely about money.

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On the other hand, what's a guy supposed to believe when literally every time he sit downs to get the ground truth he is told that money won't help?

I know there have been reports of people saying it’s not about the money. But seriously? You think he applies that opinion of the few to the masses?
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On the other hand, what's a guy supposed to believe when literally every time he sit downs to get the ground truth he is told that money won't help?

I know there have been reports of people saying it’s not about the money. But seriously? You think he applies that opinion of the few to the masses?
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I know there have been reports of people saying it’s not about the money. But seriously? You think he applies that opinion of the few to the masses?

If I remember correctly, there was a focus group of random pilots (yeah right) that met with CSAF and told him that.
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33 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Yeah agreed. I think that was 2 or 3 years ago. Hopefully fingers isn’t going completely off that small sample size.

It sounds like he is, whether he honestly believes it or not. 

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2 hours ago, Guardian said:


I know there have been reports of people saying it’s not about the money. But seriously? You think he applies that opinion of the few to the masses?

I think no one has been willing to up-channel, through any means, the idea that we're not getting paid enough.

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If you think of it from an opportunity cost standpoint (the cost of the opportunity forgone), you’re essentially paying $1m to stay in the AF. Then it becomes absolutely about money.


I’m interested to see your math. I don’t disagree with the sentiment (and more money would definitely affect my decision if the price were right) but how many of the pilots here talking about money know what NPV is?

When I ran the numbers, the NPV of staying AD until 20 vs jumping to the Airlines at the first opportunity was close. The assumptions you make matter a lot (upgrade times, furloughs, health care costs, equipment, in base or not, etc). The numbers were well within the error margin of those assumptions.

That check of the month club is worth a little over $1M in today’s dollars-again, dependent on what discount rate you assume.

My own opinion is QOL matters far more than the money. Everyone makes the decision for their own reasons. And everyone has a price. We’re really all just flying whores when you get down to it.
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