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Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)


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4 minutes ago, Longhorn15 said:

Pay won't keep everyone in, but it certainly won't hurt to take us back to pay rates on par or better than the 2000 era, which was the last time the AF was worried about retention.

If increased pay (via increases in flight pay and bonus) are an issue for Capt/Maj X, then my suggestion is for that individual to get out at the initial commitment and go to the airlines--just an objective observation/suggestion without any emotions.

I think it's becoming more clear today than ever (at least in recent times)--you either want to stay in the AF or you don't.  Neither decision is necessarily right or wrong, just personal preference.  It just makes the decision much easier when there are better job opportunities (i.e. airlines are hiring) on the outside.  

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Pay may not be the only issue, but it never hurts.  For me it was a large combination of factors, for some (like dudes stuck in preds) its a single issue.  Pay is also one of the easier problems to solve from a bureaucracy standpoint.  I doubt many here who are coming up on their decision could honestly say that pay was not a consideration.  Maybe not the single consideration, but at least a consideration.

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As it stands right now, you couldn't pay me enough to stay in. Now fix some of the issues, get rid of the terrible middle management leadership, get rid of the bs deployments that contribute nothing but keep me away from my family for 6 months, end 365s and I would stay 20+

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As it stands right now, you couldn't pay me enough to stay in. Now fix some of the issues, get rid of the terrible middle management leadership, get rid of the bs deployments that contribute nothing but keep me away from my family for 6 months, end 365s and I would stay 20+

This

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10 hours ago, TnkrToad said:

 

The CSAF testified before Congress yesterday re: pilot retention issues. According to the article,  "The Air Force also wants to increase retention pay for both manned and unmanned pilots to $35,000 a year—a move Congress will have to sign off on."

What a laugh!  If anyone thinks that this is going to put even a small dent in the retention problem they are dead wrong!  Looking at this objectively, it took 2 decades and a severe pilot retention problem for the Air Force to ask Congress for this increase which only barely corrects the old bonus for inflation.  Ridiculous.  I'm right at the end of my commitment and for my own personal desires and situation it's not about the money.  However, for the bonus to factor into my decision making and PERHAPS entice me into staying to 20 it would have to be $50K minimum.  Even then the bonus comes into account only after significant increases in quality of life, changes to the promotion system, an end to the social experiments and having more senior leaders with integrity and a true desire to serve others instead of themselves.  

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Here is what y'all are missing: they finally admitted the target is retaining 65% of uncommitted pilots. They don't need all of you to take $35K. They don't want all of you to take $35K. They want the 10% they didn't get last year and the % they won't get this year.

The 15 year bonus you are probably thinking of is the CSB part of the CSB/REDUX retirement option. It is still out there and separate from the ACP. If you take the one time $30K bonus at 15 years, you will be paying for it until the day you die...leaving about $400K in retirement on the table.

Somehow the second half of my reply got cut off.

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2 hours ago, Guardian said:

Didn't it use to be a bonus to 25 years or a 15 year bonus though?

Bonuses pre-2000s may have been like that. Before my time. But today if you sign the bonus you could get up to 9 payments of $25k before taxes. That's $100k more than someone that signed the bonus in 2012. But, as we've all seen, not even that had been enough to slow the outflow. 

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Didn't it use to be a bonus to 25 years or a 15 year bonus though?

No. As with all things though it depends. The bonus in the 90's was much less generous and was only a 5 year deal. Somewhere along in the early 2000's it went to 25k and there were a few years that had an option to go to 20 and 25 YAS, IIRC. That was only for a few years.

You have seen the last couple of years where they have targeted certain groups with options beyond the 5 year bonus.

I can't give you the specific years that each of these was offered and I'm sure I missed a few but it all depends.

BL is that the bonus has stayed relatively flat for many years. It has only "doubled" for a corresponding double number of additional years of service. 35k is an attempt to at least reset for inflation. This is too little and too late.

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2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Here is what y'all are missing: they finally admitted the target is retaining 65% of uncommitted pilots. They don't need all of you to take $35K. They don't want all of you to take $35K. They want the 10% they didn't get last year and the % they won't get this year.

The bottom line is a failure to meet retention targets equates to a current (and to a greater extent future) leadership crisis. 

Big Blue will have the people it needs to fill cockpits, due to the 10-yr commitment. Line flyers will get crushed by the opstempo, but that's mostly a reality of fighting global wars, in an Air Force that the President/Congress are willing to adequately fund. Failure to meet retention targets means there won't be enough people with aviation backgrounds to fill staffs/serve as commanders/go to school/etc. Low ACP take rates equate to low pilot retention, which means flying sq/ccs, og/ccs, and on up are picked based on the best of who bothered to stay in. It further means those leaders are being advised by staffers who (1) are the best of those who didn't make the command cut line, and (2) aren't vitally needed in flying units.

If the Air Force fails to meet its ACP take rate targets, expect to see progressively worse decisions from our leaders. The great leaders who stay in--and there are many--will be overworked & likely burn out. The not as great ones, who in prior years would never have made the cut for command, will do the best they can...but again, their actions won't be as awesome as those of prior generations. The decisions they make, and the way their policies are implemented, will be made all the worse, because they'll get their advice from less-capable staff dudes (garbage in/garbage out) . . . and even if leaders' decisions are awesome, they'll be counting on less-capable lower-level commanders and staffers to carry out their policies. 

In my mind, the ACP take rate is a good way of gauging the likely quality of future Air Force leaders. Judging by last year, and the stats thus far this year, the outlook ain't all that great. Here's to hoping AF leaders will do everything they can to fix what is within their spans of control. Contrary to JQP's typical line of argument, though, I think Presidential/Congressional policy can be blamed for a substantial part of the current crisis. 

TT

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48 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

"Hey USAF! 1998 called. They want their pilot retention tools back!".

Umm, not sure what you're getting at:

- 72k officers/363k total in the USAF to share the workload (vs. 61k officers/307k total now)? 

- "Feet on the ramp" and other coercive policies to "encourage" folks to stay on AD? 

I sure hope we don't get to the point where the take rate is the same as FY98 (28% that year). Good news is it's already a whopping 35%

TT

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"Hey USAF! 1998 called. They want their pilot retention tools back!".

Umm, not sure what you're getting at:

- 72k officers/363k total in the USAF to share the workload (vs. 61k officers/307k total now)? 

- "Feet on the ramp" and other coercive policies to "encourage" folks to stay on AD? 

I sure hope we don't get to the point where the take rate is the same as FY98 (28% that year). Good news is it's already a whopping 35%

TT

My point was that they didn't learn much from the past.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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On March 5, 2016 at 11:12 PM, Gazmo said:

My point was that they didn't learn much from the past.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

But...the ACP has worked great, in the right conditions--all that's needed is for the FAA to increase the mandatory retirement age to 70, get rid of the 1,500 hour rule, and maybe have another recession or SARS-like scare.

I'm sure bumping the bonus up to $35k a year (with Congressional approval; I'm sure McCain will bend over backward to support the CSAF) will compensate for the fact none of the above is like to happen in the near term.

Cynicism aside, I don't know how the Air Force--in the near term--can unscrew about a quarter century of misguided personnel decisions. 

TT

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I know you guys are aircrew, and as aircrew, I'm fully aware that we bitch a lot.

But man, you guys REALLY bitch a lot.

I took the bonus. $155k/year is what I'd have to make on the outside to achieve the same take home pay. Is it the best job in the world? Probably not. But the airlines never appealed to me, and are full of their own pitfalls. I'm 35 years old and I make $155k/year. For a single guy, that's a lot of money. I'm fully aware a 365 has my name on it, at some point. That's fine, even more money to stash away (tax free).

The job isn't that bad. Some guys have it worse than others, sure. But at 20 years, those of us that stayed in get to retire and do what we really want to do with the rest of our lives. Not a bad deal if you ask me.

Figured I'd throw in an opinion that goes against the norm here. Bitch away...

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1 hour ago, Guardian said:

I say we add two pages worth of bullets requirements to the OPR and mandatory semi annual colonoscopies after you turn 23. And quarterly after 30. That could help solve things.

Shit, I was in my mid-forties by the time I retired.  What would your plan entail then--just leave the damn thing plugged in the whole time...?  :beer:

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I think Big Blue could easily fix part of the pilot retention problem by getting rid of all 365s and BS 179s.  The problem isn't the pay, it's the deployments.  When I'm not downrange, what other job is going to pay me close to $100k to fly once or twice a week, occasionally click through some CBTs about lesbian trafficking, and work on a few OPRs?  However, taking me away from my family for a year to have Afghanis try to kill me daily in a Cessna Caravan, or for 6 months to make coffee for some General at the CAOC, is not worth any amount of cash you can throw at me.  I have no issue going to war with my Sq to help kill bad guys, but when you throw in the other bullshit deployments that we're all subject to, it makes me want to punch the second I'm eligible.  Fix the miscellaneous deployments and you'll fix the retention problem.

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If the tube fits
Holy hell, another eagle driver classic quote about colons.That's all you ever think about, huh Ram....colons. Ram ........colons. Hmmm. Ram colons.

And another assumption that I am an Eagle Driver......

As eagle legend has it, if you say "ram colon" three times in a dark alleyway behind chipndales, he will appear.

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I say we add two pages worth of bullets requirements to the OPR and mandatory semi annual colonoscopies after you turn 23. And quarterly after 30. That could help solve things.

You mean those semi-annual colonoscopies aren't mandatory now? I have to have a serious conversation with my flight doc!

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

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