Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[General Chang]

No, that's the problem..he IS serious.

My favorite part that the old heads mimic now is the if-you-don't-like-it-then-leave attitude. Guess what general, no matter what you think, when most of us joined the air force this little gem of a joke called the 365-to-no-where-for-no-reason didn't exist, along with countless other BS maneuvers by big blue (RIF, VSP denials then RIF, non continuation of majors) to get us out the door without so much as a nickel to our name. The original game plan was 10 year contract with option to finish the 20 and get a retirement. The stupid military retirement system, with it's all-or-nothing benefit is what is causing all this pain. I'd gladly step aside if I could get a damn penny back on the 15 years i have invested, but I can't..so here I sit...biding my time...waiting...probably making O-5 because I smile and nod and agree with the boss in public the best I can stand to. Check check check the boxes, all at government expense, and for what?

And before you even say it..Yea yea, yuck it up and tell me the same tired line "you signed up for it"....guess what, big blue changed their minds on alot of what was represented to us, and now WE are not supposed to be bitter.

Of course the AF changes the rules when necessary! This is not chess club! The Air Force has never promised anything to anyone, ever.

Your comment about the retirement system is valid and will be studied and changed over the next few years.

So it's really not about service for you at all at this point? That's the legacy you want to leave for the young guys reading this thread? How do you mentor your young CGOs in your squadron when you feel this way re: the core values? Sorry I'm old fashioned, but please tell me this isn't about personal financial gain for you for the next 5 years.

[Prozac]

Guys, -11F crisis leads to increased bonus contract length. Everyone "thinks" they see this or that within their own little sphere of influence. You do not have the big picture. Lt Gen Jones (the AF/A1) does. Nobody is going to post strength numbers on this website. The simple truth is that the pilot crisis exists in only one AFSC, and the rest of you are lucky they kept the political-hot-potato-bonus around at all. You take issue with my hat-in-hand comment? Just be grateful and sign or don't sign. But stop blaming the Air Force for your generally miserable attitude. Military life is good- look at the retention numbers that are public. RECORD LEVELS.

The word of the day today is now "gratitude" everyone.

Wow. Lobotomy complete. Seems like a pretty short sighted view if you ask me. Here's an idea: Physically go poke your head into a mobility squadron. Don't tell them you're coming. Just show up and look around. When you meet the CC or DO, look them in the eye and tell them they're overmanned and their morale is at record levels. With a straight face. Good luck.

[General Chang]

I really don't understand the attitude and the foul language guys. The facts are what they are- take the emotion out, make your bonus decision "yea" or "nay" and move on with your life. In the AF or not, work hard and be happy. Simple as that.

Have a great weekend. Even you, Danny Noonin.

[Danny Noonin]

How do you mentor your young CGOs in your squadron when you feel this way re: the core values?

An yes, the old core values argument. Always a winner.

So you're clearly morally opposed to any bonus to anyone for any reason, right? Because true "service before self" shouldn't require a bonus for pilots, re-enlistment bonuses, specialty pays, etc. So per your argument, those bonuses are fundamentally in contrast with the foundational values of our service.

Get a grip buddy.

The facts are what they are- take the emotion out, make your bonus decision "yea" or "nay" and move on with your life. In the AF or not, work hard and be happy. Simple as that.

See, you do just fine when you stick to facts. Might be time to take your own advice re: emotion and stop throwing spears at dudes and their values. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about in that regard.

Have a great weekend. Even you, Danny Noonin.

Thanks

Edited June 29, 2013 by Danny Noonin

[deskjockey]

You boys are really allowing this troll to get to you too much...he's clearly just trying to push your buttons. There is no way 1) he is anything other than washed up middle management. 2) means anything he says I recommend hitting ignore ASAP.

[NKAWTG]

One thing this exchange has revealed is in the eyes of big blue, the 11F community is the only one need of a bonus to boost retention. Imagine the backlash if they had offered your fighter types up to 225k to stick around without giving something to the other rated folks. The bonus was not needed to boost retention in any other community, but since it's been going on so long, they don't have an idea of what it will do not offer it. Or maybe they do since they delayed this one for so long.

I imagine there was quite a bit of back and forth within the puzzle palace on this issue, because the bonuses for the rest of the rated types are only there because of fairness, precedent and to fight the perception that the world revolves around the pointy nose types. That would explain the "ought to be grateful" comments from someone who realizes the stated reason for the bonus isn't actually true in most cases.

[Magnum]

Second post first- yes, the last twelve years have sucked from a family perspective- do not think your senior leaders don't recognize that. They simply have no tools to show that appreciation other than language.

False. They have the power to change the little stuff that adds to the list of reasons to leave active duty. Friday patches / t-shirts and other traditions building everyone's morale could be a good start. Next, stop worrying about hurting someone's feelings by admitting that not everyone is a warrior and remind them that their job is to support the warriors. Fix the promotion system - when solid 11F's aren't making O-4 in a huge shortage, that's a leadership problem. There are tons of these little annoyances that build up a case for bolting and most of them can be fixed at low levels of leadership. Rebuilding a culture that truly focuses on accomplishing the true mission would help make the decision to leave a little bit tougher.

[Champ Kind]

please tell me this isn't about personal financial gain for you for the next 5 years.

Actually, it has become just that.

You and your peers have squandered this service to the point that people who just wanted to "fly and fight" in service to their country now look at it as a JOB. Not a career. Not some sort of noble service. A JOB. You know, like that guy at Home Depot.

You had some people going for a minute, but it didn't take you long to show your true colors.

Pathetic.

[Homestar]

Sorry I'm old fashioned, but please tell me this isn't about personal financial gain for you for the next 5 years.

Of course it's about money. And job satisfaction. I wouldn't do this job for free. Once either the money or the job satisfaction no longer meets my needs I will depart. And nobody in the Air Force will miss me, and that's okay.

[matmacwc]

I dunno, the last senior dude seemed pretty legit. Again, we really don't know who they are, but you do yourself no favors by attacking the senior dudes, you know where they come from. Let them see us bitch/whine/complain, but realize they will be somewhere around the party line. Like GC said, keep talking, I really think this forum can make a difference.

That being said fuck UAVs.

[GoAround]

My prediction of who Senior Chang really is: O-4, Personnel/Aquisitions/Cyber AFSC, school select who hasn't attended school yet i.e. already has ticket punched b/c he's been donkey-punching peers along the way. I bet he doesn't even work at HAF...probably more like AF Space Command A1 who gets the ppt slides from his bro network (dorks) at AF/A1.

[Recut]

I dunno, the last senior dude seemed pretty legit. Again, we really don't know who they are, but you do yourself no favors by attacking the senior dudes, you know where they come from. Let them see us bitch/whine/complain, but realize they will be somewhere around the party line. Like GC said, keep talking, I really think this forum can make a difference.

That being said ###### UAVs.

RANT: ON matmacwc: you're not the object of RANT just used your quote. Chang is objective

I see troll. Several posts back, he was saying the C-17 community is "brutalized" in an attempt to ID with crew dogs. Then, the last several posts revealed the trollness. All of a sudden, it's another troll telling everyone to STFU, he knows better than you do. C'mon, He's not some "leader" up at the puzzle palace looking out for you. He's a troll trying to start shit by joining the forum as a proclaimed "senior leader." It's all horseshit. I say quit listening to these troll douchers. You won't make a difference with trolls.....ever.

My bullshit flag was raised because he claimed to know what it's like in the C-17 world ..... my world.....and then told everyone to more or less F off, followed by big blue....big blue.......big blue......words......and some other BS. You don't know my world Chang.........I'm trying to live a normal life with the few days I have at home with the wife and kid while you think numbers and charts are more important than the fact we are still downrange and people are still dying while bullets are flying.

The dudes posting about their bonus deserve it. They deserve more, actually. They are posting on what used to be a cool place for pilots to post whatever. This is NOT the CGOC or whatever BS. Go play Big Blue somewhere else with the douchery.

Sorry if I'm outta line, just got a little pissed about the fact that I gave up EVERYTHING for the past several years and this troll is trolling.

RANT: OFF

Edit to try to say what I was thinking: Sick of apparent "leaders in the know" trying to ID with dudes fighting the war while questioning said dudes' intentions of serving while the dudes fighting see what's going on for themselves.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Recut

[Gravedigger]

I bet he doesn't even work at HAF...probably more like AF Space Command A1 who gets the ppt slides from his bro network (dorks) at AF/A1.

WTF brah? What's your beef with AFSPC?

From an outsider perspective, it's tough to relate at all to this thread. Life's good in the space world, it really is. We've got plenty of opportunities if we get out, good senior leaders, great job satisfaction, great assignment locations, deployments on a volunteer basis (minus a few units), and the right people are getting promoted for the most part. I feel sorry for those of you guys that no longer have a passion for what you do because of the extras that now come with it. I mean honestly, being a professional pilot, particularly in the military, should be one of the best jobs in the world. The fact that they have to throw money at you guys and still people want out is very telling, and troubling.

What's my point in bringing my outsider view to this? It seems as though the pilot generals looking at this situation are about like a space guy doing the same. Their lives are great. Pretty much all of the things I've just listed apply except they also have drivers/chefs/aides etc. to sweeten the deal. It's easy to question motivation and job satisfaction when you've got it good.

Bottom line, I hope you guys find a way to get the Air part of the Air Force back to feeling the sense of pride and satisfaction that once existed.

[Recut]

WTF brah? What's your beef with AFSPC?

From an outsider perspective, it's tough to relate at all to this thread. Life's good in the space world, it really is. We've got plenty of opportunities if we get out, good senior leaders, great job satisfaction, great assignment locations, deployments on a volunteer basis (minus a few units), and the right people are getting promoted for the most part. I feel sorry for those of you guys that no longer have a passion for what you do because of the extras that now come with it. I mean honestly, being a professional pilot, particularly in the military, should be one of the best jobs in the world. The fact that they have to throw money at you guys and still people want out is very telling, and troubling.

What's my point in bringing my outsider view to this? It seems as though the pilot generals looking at this situation are about like a space guy doing the same. Their lives are great. Pretty much all of the things I've just listed apply except they also have drivers/chefs/aides etc. to sweeten the deal. It's easy to question motivation and job satisfaction when you've got it good.

Bottom line, I hope you guys find a way to get the Air part of the Air Force back to feeling the sense of pride and satisfaction that once existed.

Dude.........I don't know anyone in my career field (rated pilots as a whole) that isn't passionate about the job. You can't make it as a pilot in the AF if you aren't.

Edit: By saying "I don't know anyone in my career field" excludes anyone who went through the pilot selection process, UPT, MWS upgrades......etc.....etc and decided queep/career was more important than flying/the mission

Edited June 29, 2013 by Recut

[TnkrToad]

See, you do just fine when you stick to facts.

Ah, but that's the problem--no facts, just "trust me" coming from what I can only assume is an O-4, maybe O-5--and I suspect a Nav. Considering his "embrace the suck" mantra, I'd guess he's a 12S. Further guess is that he is in fact the buffoon at HAF that's feeding skewed/moronic inputs to the senior leaders making decisions about bonuses, hence the defensiveness. At least you SOF and Helo pilots can be comforted that your high ops tempo is merely a figment of your imagination . . .

- I've read no facts on this forum to support this year's ARP, and the facts I have seen make his comments look borderline insane from an institutional perspective

- I'm sure all of us on this board would appreciate hearing some sort of factual support for the ARP

[Nineline]

Chang,

Holy hypocrisy batman! In no less than 30 hours, you went from:

Second post first- yes, the last twelve years have sucked from a family perspective- do not think your senior leaders don't recognize that... The bonus is all about the numbers and the money. Period, dot.

To this:

But stop blaming the Air Force for your generally miserable attitude. Military life is good- look at the retention numbers that are public. RECORD LEVELS.

And then ended on this:

Sorry I'm old fashioned, but please tell me this isn't about personal financial gain for you for the next 5 years.

The word of the day today is now "gratitude" everyone.

So, the bonus is all about the money, but my motivations for taking it shouldn't be about financial gain. And even though the last 12 years have sucked, I shouldn't blame the Air Force for that and military life is good due to the sole fact that retention is high. Really?

Now you might argue that I'm taking your quotes out of context, but I don't think I am. And I'm willing to bet most of the members of this forum would agree.

-9-

Edited June 29, 2013 by Nineline

[Recut]

Just one more Jab.

If I seem to be bitching and complaining, then let me out. Oh wait, I can't! I am an 11M. I cannot Palace Chase. I am excluded from it! But we're over-manned! But there's a glut!

How about early retirement for the glut? Save money cuz they'd forfeit a portion of 20 yr retirement to retire early and save taxpayers $ ............I know you lose a certain % off of the normal 20 yr retirement for each yr early......just sayin............. no talk of that!?

[sixpack]

Chang: Thank you for reaffirming my thoughts that senior leadership does not have a clue as to what it will take to bolster morale and retention in the pilot community, more specifically for the Mobility, Helo, and UAS pilot types. The message is clear through this new pilot bonus this year that those of us who are not figher jockeys are looked at as being expendable. Yet another giant kick to the nuts after the VSP, RIF debacle that has happened in the previous years.

To say that the mobility career field is overmanned is nothing short of utterly retarded thought. I dare you to walk into any C-17 squadron and sit them all down and tell it to their face. When your job has you on the road away from your family more than 6 months out of the year because we can't say no to shipping a container of dog shit to the AOR at the Army's request while quickly sending the majority of our first assignment pilots to MC-12's, ALO, UAVs is just silly. People have been working their asses off for the past several years, marriages have fallen apart, people are stressed out, and now you're basically telling us that we have you by the balls because you're still going to stay in because the economy sucks, nobody's hiring, the 10 year pilot committment, etc. This type of myopic thinking is what gets us in trouble in the first place, and is going to lead to lack of experience in these communities. One day, sometime in the next few years, pilots are going to get fed up to the point where they start walking and we'll be left with the new guys, a few "yes men" mid level officers, and the senior leaders. This will keep reinforcing crappy mentoring, crappy piloting, and a hesitant outlook on the future to these new officers. It's a vicious cycle that needs to be addressed today, not years down the road like every knee jerk reaction the Air Force has done the past decade.

Being a prior E, I also despise the fact that now most of us will be ineligible for the bonus, thus reinforcing the fact that we are not wanted even with our unique experience of being able to relate to both sides of the Air Force. Once again you are losing a vast amount of good people with great knowledge because you think we're too old and are going to stick it out to 20 years anyways. What about us that want to stay in past 20 and try to make a go for making it to O-6 or beyond?

One more point... i'd love to know who you were talking to at Grand Forks telling us that most people there volunteered for that assignment and are now living in the land of sunshine and lollipops. GMAFB! I know first hand that morale there is less than ideal from those that have been non-vol'd to the middle of nowhere, being treated like the redheaded stepchildren of the Air Force. I can tell you for every person that volunteered and is happy, there are four that are hating life, waiting for the day to be released from the unrelenting grip of UAVs to get to a manned aircraft again, or the end of their pilot commitment so they can punch.

I'm done. Time for another beer.

[noumenon]

GC

This is one pilots point of view. Tracking that we should remove emotion from this discussion, but in that statement I feel we're missing something valuable. Real leaders understand that we are never dealing with individuals just evaluating this decision from a financial point of view or in black and white, even if the bean counters are just looking at money and end strength numbers. I value realism and appreciate the bean counting realism you're offering, but it's a little out of touch. If the bonus isn't the place to show appreciation for a pilot's service, then please use this pilot's forum to find the words it's missing. For example you touched on it with keep the faith, but then erased it with the thank you for your service pilot pansy, that sucked and I know you're better than that.

Our inspiration still lies in the warrior ideal, and we need leaders than can inspire that image in our folks, so they can go out and confidently prosecute the mission, bonus or no. This talk about the mission and the people, and finding the right balance of numbers that the nation needs to meet emerging threats from a statistical point of view misses a lot of the quirks that can't be quantified. IMO, we've created entire staffs to work issues that would not exist if the Air Force could inspire it's people by giving them an image of a future that they could project themselves on without cringing, gah.

The bonus, why does it exist? The answer to that question seems innumerable but ultimately it's because A1 won't start with the people, its most valuable resource. A1 is starting with numbers to fix the numbers. Start with the people, and you'll end with the mission complete and we'll be thankful all the while. If the retention numbers go up for 11Xs it might also be because Welsh is inspiring, and the bonus is a sideshow that will catch a few on the fencers, but for the most part it's just extra. Check out Steve Jobs here talking about the future of Apple and its people, start at 7:40. It's a message you began to touch on, stick around till at least 12:55.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM4tAXacpVE

It's all about end strength numbers and money if I hear it correctly, we'll address the problems as they arise. My opinion is that the Air Force has failed to inspire it's people beyond the initial sacrifice without incentive, and that's a problem the Air Force cannot address with more money at ANY time, hell attempting to fix it with money is part of the problem! If leaders could inspire us all with their words and offer the quality of life that would make the word of the day gratitude there would be no bonus. However, offering a cynical remedy for the disease of cynicism isn't much of a cure. There is a more positive way, just get creative.

A1 doesn't have the cajones to get rid of the bonus, that's how cynical A1 is. That 225K$ could be spent on a tremendous educational experience sending every 11X through a great school at the end of their commitment and make the covenant more valuable, while emphasizing the first 10-12 years as a chance to develop tactical expertise without that dreaded AAD distraction. It would be a transition. It would give Airmen a break at a breaking point and invest that same money in a less cynical way. It has the added benefit of getting our message and real leadership experience out in the university setting, attracting and inspiring even more future leaders. It would give folks the chance to add value to their cranium before they go back to ops or staff. That would be a positive message and a score for leadership and the development of critical thinkers. A hell of a sell to congress and a great message to young people wanting to have more options when they don't have the pleasure of serving any more. Thinkers and doers sir, that's what we need, the combo of art and science--develop it. We're worth something more thoughtful.

The take it or leave it, there's the door mantra is so cynical, we want leaders that are worth our service and motivate us to follow. The decision to stay or go for a pilot whose commitment is up represents a turning point not only for the individual, but for the entire Air Force that will exist with each individuals continued service, or without it. We mercs will try and evaluate this decision with heartfelt gratitude and more grace than Big blue evaluates us. We'll try and ignore the 3 AM wakeups with tremendous anxiety and myriad images of an uncertain future, the snapshot of the kids and spouses faces that run through our minds with every deployment and just make it a financial decision. All I'm saying is that if you've come to preach to Nineveh, I hope you've spent time sounding the deep in the belly of the whale.

[AnimalMother]

Awesome exposé brother. Big ups.

Edited June 29, 2013 by AnimalMother

[GoAround]

One more point... i'd love to know who you were talking to at Grand Forks telling us that most people there volunteered for that assignment and are now living in the land of sunshine and lollipops. GMAFB .

He doesn't have to talk with any real person...he probably sifted thru the ppt's and has a "virtual" finger on the pulse.

[jstarsshag]

GC

This is one pilots point of view. Tracking that we should remove emotion from this discussion, but in that statement I feel we're missing something valuable. Real leaders understand that we are never dealing with individuals just evaluating this decision from a financial point of view or in black and white, even if the bean counters are just looking at money and end strength numbers. I value realism and appreciate the bean counting realism you're offering, but it's a little out of touch. If the bonus isn't the place to show appreciation for a pilot's service, then please use this pilot's forum to find the words it's missing. For example you touched on it with keep the faith, but then erased it with the thank you for your service pilot pansy, that sucked and I know you're better than that.

Our inspiration still lies in the warrior ideal, and we need leaders than can inspire that image in our folks, so they can go out and confidently prosecute the mission, bonus or no. This talk about the mission and the people, and finding the right balance of numbers that the nation needs to meet emerging threats from a statistical point of view misses a lot of the quirks that can't be quantified. IMO, we've created entire staffs to work issues that would not exist if the Air Force could inspire it's people by giving them an image of a future that they could project themselves on without cringing, gah.

The bonus, why does it exist? The answer to that question seems innumerable but ultimately it's because A1 won't start with the people, its most valuable resource. A1 is starting with numbers to fix the numbers. Start with the people, and you'll end with the mission complete and we'll be thankful all the while. If the retention numbers go up for 11Xs it might also be because Welsh is inspiring, and the bonus is a sideshow that will catch a few on the fencers, but for the most part it's just extra. Check out Steve Jobs here talking about the future of Apple and its people, start at 7:40. It's a message you began to touch on, stick around till at least 12:55.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM4tAXacpVE

It's all about end strength numbers and money if I hear it correctly, we'll address the problems as they arise. My opinion is that the Air Force has failed to inspire it's people beyond the initial sacrifice without incentive, and that's a problem the Air Force cannot address with more money at ANY time, hell attempting to fix it with money is part of the problem! If leaders could inspire us all with their words and offer the quality of life that would make the word of the day gratitude there would be no bonus. However, offering a cynical remedy for the disease of cynicism isn't much of a cure. There is a more positive way, just get creative.

A1 doesn't have the cajones to get rid of the bonus, that's how cynical A1 is. That 225K$ could be spent on a tremendous educational experience sending every 11X through a great school at the end of their commitment and make the covenant more valuable, while emphasizing the first 10-12 years as a chance to develop tactical expertise without that dreaded AAD distraction. It would be a transition. It would give Airmen a break at a breaking point and invest that same money in a less cynical way. It has the added benefit of getting our message and real leadership experience out in the university setting, attracting and inspiring even more future leaders. It would give folks the chance to add value to their cranium before they go back to ops or staff. That would be a positive message and a score for leadership and the development of critical thinkers. A hell of a sell to congress and a great message to young people wanting to have more options when they don't have the pleasure of serving any more. Thinkers and doers sir, that's what we need, the combo of art and science--develop it. We're worth something more thoughtful.

The take it or leave it, there's the door mantra is so cynical, we want leaders that are worth our service and motivate us to follow. The decision to stay or go for a pilot whose commitment is up represents a turning point not only for the individual, but for the entire Air Force that will exist with each individuals continued service, or without it. We mercs will try and evaluate this decision with heartfelt gratitude and more grace than Big blue evaluates us. We'll try and ignore the 3 AM wakeups with tremendous anxiety and myriad images of an uncertain future, the snapshot of the kids and spouses faces that run through our minds with every deployment and just make it a financial decision. All I'm saying is that if you've come to preach to Nineveh, I hope you've spent time sounding the deep in the belly of the whale.

I'd follow to hell and back with you... well said!! GC take notes...

[BCan]

I mean honestly, being a professional pilot, particularly in the military, should be one of the best jobs in the world. The fact that they have to throw money at you guys and still people want out is very telling, and troubling.

Shack.

I'd also say that treating your highly educated, hard working talent like an Airman Basic doesn't help...right down to how to dress yourself on a Monday. Everything is a fuc*ing haze in this service...deploying, PCSing, etc. I'm not even bitter at this point...I'm just kinda numb to the treatment. I'm used to "supporting agencies" being a total pain in the ass, wasting my time on a great idea, bullshit degress, bullshit projects, etc.

What really crushes my spirit is that I've seen the same frustration in my sq/cc and gp/cc. It's institutional...dudes hate it...and now Big Blue is trying to $$$$ their way out of the mess they created.

[General Chang]

BCan,

Respectfully, you are in the service and you complain about the honor and tradition of wearing a uniform? You describe it as a "f***ing haze" to wear our service's uniform? Wow. Now I am numb.

There is no "mess" here, BCan, and there never was. The ACP has been around for years, and $$$ have always worked to fix the imbalance. Each and every time, it has worked (sometimes it took a couple of years, but it worked none-the-less). There is no quantitative evidence that $$$ will not continue to work in the future. If one year's retention is suboptimal, the A1 will tell the CSAF what needs to happen, and the CSAF will adjust the ACP. Simple as that. No emotion, no thoughts about quality of life. Just money to fix the problem. And it works. Why would the GOs change something that works?

I get that many of you have been screwed by this or that, and I understand complaining about it in this forum. All I am trying to relay, as unemotionally as possible, is that the bonus program (and I'm only talking about the bonus here) is ALL about 1's and 0's, nothing more, nothing less. It is not a pat-on-the-back, it is not a thank-you. The only way in which the bonus looks "backwards" is at retention number trends over time. Other than that, the bonus looks forward. Similar to a promotion, in that you are being promoted because of your potential to lead in the next rank, except promotions have a backward-looking "achievement" component. The bonus does not.

The bonus does not cry for prior enlisted who do not get it. They did not get it because they will stay through 20 (in fact, guys just hitting their 15th year will stay through 20, to the tune of 90+%, regardless of bonus money, so count your blessings if you're between 15-16 that leadership gave you a payout).

The bonus does not weep for late rated people who are ineligible. They are ineligible because they will stay through 20. Give them bonus money? Why, Rusty? So they can stay past 20? The Air Force does not need you past 20. They need you to (mostly) work the staff & (a small few of you) fly the line now, but after 20, you're in the way of the promotion system. There is plenty of talent in the pipeline to become the next "experienced pilot" behind you (actually, they're already the "experienced pilot" behind you, as folks hit EP at the senior Captain rank), and they are much cheaper than you are. Simple math, just like the private sector. Why would the taxpayer give you a crapload money and get zero "net effective return" on that money? Ergo, no bonus for you. And low and behold, Rusty, you are staying, which prooves the CSAF's point. You do not deserve the money. You do not NOT deserve the money. You just don't get the money, because enough of your type are staying (to include you), and then leaving at 20, which is what the Air Force needs, and that's what matters.

The bonus does not cheer for fighter pilots who just hit the lottery. There is no conspiracy among fighter pilot GOs at the Pentagon to give "their own" more money. Hogwash. It's ones and zeros. What does a four-star get out of giving an O-4 an extra pile of cash? If he's lucky, nothing. If he's not lucky, he gets an earful from a Congressman or woman that he must sit there and listed to, diligently, out of respect for his or her office. Conspiracy? Please. Get over yourself.

The bonus does not give a sigh of relieve for the glut of -11Ms who just hit paydirt. If you read my first post, mobility guys, you should realize why I later said "gratitude" is the word of the day. Besides the upcoming Air Force contraction, staffs will contract over the next few years. Fewer -11Ms will be needed to backfill -11F positions. Additionally, # of squadrons are contracting in some weapons systems (take the Herk world, for example; once transformation is complete, there will not be nearly as many "J" pilots walking around as there were "E" + "H" pilots- fewer squadrons- simple math). UAV mid-career transfers may be topping out in the next few years (speaking strictly on the heavy, non-armed side-of-the-house) as the formal UAV training pipeline continues to ramp up and add capacity. And yes, while C-17 pilots are hurting from the tempo, it is simply not a manning issue. It is a mission issue, and should be addressed in that manner (I'm sure to hear the most response from this comment, but it's true: the C-17 community has the manning to accomplish the mission it should be doing. Maybe things will get better for that community as OEF wraps up next year- I am crossing my fingers). As for the airlines, there is no mass hire, there won't be a mass hire anytime soon (probability very, very high), and if there is, the Air Force will correct with money, and it will be very successful with that tool as it always has been.

The bonus DOES project forward, and it sees a future issue in the -11F community. No issues in spec ops, helos, UAVs, and ESPECIALLY mobility as far as the numbers are concerned. I cannot argue emotion or individual frustrations- please feel free to vent, but I cannot have a constructive argument with you, because the numbers don't support your frustrations. I am sorry.

The bonus is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less. It is $$$, and money rebalances the Air Force's "personnel portfolio," if you will...

Hopefully this response is a little more "even-keeled"--I apologize for calling a pilot a "pansy" in the other forum- I will try to stick to the facts from here forward.

Enjoy your weekend. Enjoy your bonuses. Can't wait for Coney Island Hot Dog contest this week!!

Edited June 29, 2013 by General Chang

[Danny Noonin]

Gen...Other than you completely misunderstanding what BCan was saying, that was a good post.

Dudes may not what to hear what you're saying, but with regard to what the bonus is/does it was solid. Stick to that stuff please and you'll be useful to the young pups around here. The minute you start questioning the motivations, service or values of young dudes who have faced more time away from home, career instability, and uncertain futures (over their entire careers not just for short term issues like in other points of our AF history) based solely on your interpretations of their Internet venting, then you are right the fuck out of line.

Keep posting please but have SA.