Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[tac airlifter]

56 minutes ago, Homestar said:

 Also, as a IDE select I was confident I was not going to school so I saw that as a plus. 

I don't understand that statement.

2niner:  I also signed the 20 year bonus.  I like flying, and even though staff is awful I think I have a good chance of flying again.  I'm not interested in the airlines, I like my AF mission.  Also, ANG has no appeal to me.  Just figure out who you are and what you like, then pursue that.  Hard when you're young.  If I could do it all over again while keeping the knowledge I've gained, I would be a WO in the 160th.  

I am glad GC posts on this board; arguing with him is fruitless.  His opinions are the unvarnished versions of opinions I hear from GO's routinely.   it's good he is so forthright; expect that attitude from all your senior AF management, but normally obfuscated by platitudes.  Forewarned is forearmed.  I have no illusions about the cowards running our AF.  I chose to stay because no where else affords me the opportunity to kill AQ/IS; and although our organization doesn't value that, I do.

[General Chang]

9 hours ago, 2niner said:

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision.  You will regret that forever.

Once in, work your tail off and be the best in your unit.  Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.  If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.  However, uphold the core values, and you won't need to worry about that. 

Be the best and you will rise to the top.

Edited May 20, 2016 by General Chang
Emphasize excellence

[SurelySerious]

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision.  You will regret that forever.

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

I don't understand that statement.

 

I misspoke. Should read IDE candidate. Edited. 

[Motofalcon]

2 hours ago, General Chang said:

Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.

 

 If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.

1) As long as it doesn't make them disagree with their boss, because only yes men get promoted in today's AF. I don't ever expect a commander to help me unless it also helps him, and that is from experience, not just "sour grapes". 

2) Or you could be great at your job and still get a raw deal because AFPCs two most used lines are "timing is everything" and "needs of the Air Force". Which when you dissect it means "performance is nothing, you will take what we give you, and your whole life is a game of chance every 3 years".

I still can't believe that YOU don't believe US. Do you notice how every single person on this thread is saying the same things?  QOL(not money), cut the BS/non primary duty stuff, etc?  And do you notice how damn near every thread on this board devolves into these same lamentations?  Go look at them - almost any one of them can be re-titled "What is wrong with the Air Force in regards to..." And they all have the same problems!  Do you think we just sit around and have secret meetings to make sure we all complain about the same stuff?  No!  It's because it is reality and we are all dealing with it!  But you refuse to believe it.  CSAF said morale is pretty darn good, so it must be true.  These guys in the squadrons are the minority - just a few "sour grapes". 

What is so damn frustrating is I constantly hear leaders say, "if you complain/highlight a problem, give me a solution". Well, everybody is providing you the same solutions. Maybe not the "how" to implement the solutions, but that's why you have whatever rank you do - your job is to figure out how to implement the fix. 

And guess what - stop loss isn't a fix. It's emergency triage that has it's time and place.  This isn't it, and it will backfire terribly. 

And if you are a troll, well done. You got me fired up - and maybe you don't actually matter/have power, but that doesn't make what I'm saying invalid. 

[11F...]

3 hours ago, General Chang said:

Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.  If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.  However, uphold the core values, and you won't need to worry about that. 

I think this statement above confirms that Chang is pulling our chain.  And job well done.  And not only does it seem to be fun for folks to argue with him, but there seems to be something healthy about the airing of grievances, especially when so many others say the same thing.  But read the couple of sentences I quoted.  That isn't the kind of talk any GO would spew.  "leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want"...come on.   That kind of statement, including the next sentence, is 100% intended to rile up the masses.  

Again I say:  Job well done.   And I, along with others, will continue to argue with this troll for no reason other than my own self-healing.    

[Sprkt69]

12 hours ago, 2niner said:

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

Your best bet is to go Guard or Reserve if what you want to do is fly without many of the hassles of AD. It's what I would have done if I had the chance to do it all over again in today's current AF environment. As the other guys have said, there are some redeeming values of being an AF pilot, but be ready for "Needs of the Air Force" and "It's all about timing" 

[pcola]

I was gonna let this one go, since I think others on here have already rebuked this garbage more eloquently than I ever could, but I just can't.  

On May 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, General Chang said:

Very mature, Colonel.  Now that you feel better about yourself, let's discuss facts.  

Ummm - he gave you a wall of facts.  Furthermore, that you refuse to accept the facts is indicative of your utter failure (inability or ineptitude?) to grasp the reality of the situation before you.  

On May 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, General Chang said:

A1 misjudged the effects of the 9-yr bonus.  I acknowledge that.  From the personnel perspective, however, A1 has a specific playbook and specific rules to follow in these scenarios.  The AF is desperately trying to get Congress to approve higher bonuses.  If successful, this will help slightly with officers on-the-fence.  

Misjudged???  You think???  That was fcking predictable.  In fact, it WAS predicted, on this very site.  Which, IIRC, you scoffed.  Time and time again you are told the ground truth.  If not in your staff meetings, at least in this forum.  Yet you plow ahead with your useless playbook, hoping that it works.  Guess what, it's 4th and long and your playbook is shit.  Someone needs to get creative - now.  And I'll go ahead and give you another prediction - higher bonuses won't work either.

On May 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, General Chang said:

 Next, some stop-lossed officers may rebel, but most will do their duty and uphold the core values (all should...we are officers first, as you learned in your schools).  

Please.  Take your kool-aid somewhere else.  Nobody here is drinking it.  You claim to be in A1, possibly even at the GO level, and you want to talk about core values?  OK, please explain your meaning of integrity.  I'd love to hear it, because I certainly can't tell by your policies.  Stop loss = a violation of trust and contract = lack of integrity on the part of leadership that callously uses it as a retention tool.  Officer first?  You bet.  All the way until the bitter end of my service obligation.  Beyond that, I'm free to do as I see fit.  Even if you geniuses decide to hold me beyond my obligation.  

On May 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, General Chang said:

We may have to eliminate some of the extraneous additional duties at flying squadrons or authorize more civilians to help.  So be it.  

May have to?  This should be where you are investing most of your time finding a solution.  You should not be looking at it as an unfortunate compromise required by A1 to ease the situation.  It is the answer.  We don't want more money.  We aren't a bunch of washed up, grumpy old has beens that missed the boat either (as you've alluded to in several other posts.)  We are the voice of the pilot force, representative of the majority.  And in fact, it seems that several of us that are bitching the loudest on here actually have those opportunities that you value so much in front of us, or have already turned them down, voluntarily.  Your interpretation of the situation is skewed by your addiction to the kool aid, brother.  Open your eyes.  We don't want more pay, we want more freedom to do the job that needs doing.  

On May 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, General Chang said:

Finally, a 15- or 20-year ADSC for UPT will have limited effect on the morale of pilots currently in, and the AF will still not have difficulty finding people to sign-up to fly...the novelty of flying never diminishes amongst a population enamored with it.  If AF recovers from the pilot shortage down-the-road, A1 can curtail ADSCs.  That won't be anytime soon, however, as AF will need to send more current pilots permanently into RPAs for the foreseeable future to meet Army demand for orbits.

This statement shows your cards.  You really are blindly grasping at straws here, but unfortunately for the health of the Air Force, you've picked up the short straw and you think its the long one.  You think that more of the same wanton mismanagement and lazy application of the "rule book" is going to solve the problem.  News flash - this plan will have a negative effect on morale.  At the expense of tooting my own horn here, by and large, the pilot force is the smartest, most capable cross section of personnel that the AF has.  This is, in part, due to the very nature of selection for UPT and the weeding out process after. If you think that screwing the next generation will somehow escape the scrutiny of the current crop of pilots, you've (again) sadly misread your target audience.  Who do you think is going to lead this next generation of screwed-over young LTs?  That's right Einstein, the same people that are currently disgruntled by your abhorrent management policies.  Making worse management policies will not help your situation.  I think your most grievous error here is interpreting that the disgruntled pilots are simply looking out for #1.  Wrong.  Most of us are so disgruntled because we believe in the importance of having a strong, sustainable airpower force and we see how damaging your policies are to the bottom line of that force.  If you think that continuing the downward trend of flawed management polices will not affect morale, you are clueless.

On May 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, General Chang said:

Pilots- you can help create a positive environment in your squadrons as we move through these difficult times.  Emphasize the positives...flying hour programs are healthy, and pilots moved into the RPA community have the opportunity to establish themselves as leaders in the "community of the future," which can be a huge opportunity to excel.  Also, RPA operators are home more, per the spreadsheets.  Please help your GO leadership, and we will get through this together.  Stay positive.  You will sleep better tonight.

I won't even go into this statement, as it's been thoroughly debunked in the preceding pages of this post.  I will say that if you expect us to drink your kool-aid, pass it around, and make your job easier, while you continue to F-it up by the numbers, you are sadly mistaken.  It's not on me to lie to those I lead in order to create a positive environment.  They'd see right through that BS anyway, and then I'd be part of the problem.  It's on you and your peers (if you are who you say you are) to fix the environment so that us front line leaders can have a chance of making it positive again.  As Clearedhot so eloquently pointed out - senior leadership and their staffs created this mess, you can't put it on our shoulders.  

One last point.  I don't know if G Chang is a troll or not.  Doesn't really matter - the problems discussed on this thread are real, and I have no doubt that real AF leadership follow this forum.  Please, for the sake of the future of the AF, read and heed.  The pages on this forum ARE the Sq level ground truth you guys claim to be seeking.  I've answered your surveys.  I've spoken frankly to my boss.  I've had these conversations repeatedly with my peers.  I've mentored the Capts and Lts.  Have some courage and make the necessary course corrections.  Admit fault if that's what it takes, but show some of those core values that you love to tout.  Integrity, Excellence, Service...

For Fuks sake, I need a scotch.

ETA: Damn, when did I lose the privilege of dropping F-bombs on this forum?  Totally F'd up my post, I'd say.

Edited May 20, 2016 by pcola

[sqwatch]

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision.  You will regret that forever.

Once in, work your tail off and be the best in your unit.  Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.  If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.  However, uphold the core values, and you won't need to worry about that. 

Be the best and you will rise to the top.

Rable rable rable rable rable rable!!!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[11F...]

12 hours ago, 2niner said:

Reading through this thread, and posts like the one above, is quite disconcerting. I am a civ pilot select headed for OTS sometime in the future and this thread certainly has opened my eyes to some of the problems the AF is facing right now. Just the thought of going to Reapers after UPT makes me nauseous. Some questions if you'll indulge me: Knowing what you know now, being in for 5, 10, 20 years, if you could go back and tell your younger self "Don't join!" would your younger self have listened? Would you regret it 10 years down the road having not joined?

I suppose it says something about my overall commitment to join that an online forum would cause me to re-think my future career as a military pilot. You all make valid points, but there have to be some redeeming qualities to being an AF pilot.

I apologize if this is too much of a digression for this thread's topic. I was just reading through so I thought I'd post it here.

 

Do it.  Also, go guard, but do it.  I hate my life at times.   The USAF lifestyle is tough, it's unfair, it takes a toll on a marriage, you might get some raw deals.  But I would do it again in a heartbeat (and I'm a leader of the disgruntled).  What pisses most of us off are that we have solvable problems that are not being solved, not even being attempted at being solved, and so we're fed up and most now (look at the numbers) are choosing to say "F it, I'll at least go to a place where I can make twice as much and work half as long after serving my country for 11-12 years."  No one joins the Air Force, and certainly not as a pilot, because they want to make a ton of money.  That appears to the be only true fix your USAF is willing to offer future you.  But pilots don't want more money.  They want a better QOL, in a nutshell.  But all of that said, I don't regret joining at all.  Some people do, but not me.  For me, I have experiences and memories and friends that I wouldn't trade for anything.  My family has the same, even though our life has sucked because of big blue at times.   We've also lived in places and made friends that my wife and kids will treasure forever.  The USAF afforded me that opportunity, despite all the stress and suck and crap that comes along with it.  I took the bonus because of a sweet assignment far away from the USAF that took me well past my commitment anyway, so I figured I only had a few years to retirement on the backside of that job.  I do regret taking the bonus at times.  And I regret not having ever heard about the guard or reserves when I joined.  And I regret the $40,000 I've spent on scotch and beer in my life.  Scratch that last one.  But other than those changes, I would do it again and would recommend you do the same if this is what you're willing to endure/gain.  

[Bender]

Also, as a IDE candidate I was confident I was not going to school so I saw that as a plus. 

I laughed at that...

Bendy

[Bender]

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision.  You will regret that forever.

Once in, work your tail off and be the best in your unit.  Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.  If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.  However, uphold the core values, and you won't need to worry about that. 

Be the best and you will rise to the top.

Holy bomb.

"Have excellence"?

Someone tell me what that means to the United States Air Force.

One of the best Chang lines ever...

Bendy

Edit: why can't I curse anymore? Do I do that too much?

[ViperStud]

I love the irony of the situation Big Blue finds itself in. For a decade, rated retention was an afterthought; airlines weren't hiring, the economy went south and they enjoyed ~2 years where no pilots could get out.  During that timeframe queep mounted as CSS troops were cut and flying hours were slashed. At the tail end of it all they reward the military with pathetic 1.X% raises and lower BAH.  Their attempt to recapitalize the fleet (JSF shitshow) is falling squarely on the shoulders of AD troops.

 

Almost as if on cue, the economy finds its footing, airlines start hiring like gangbusters and every ANG/Res unit is looking for good people. There is actual movement on bonuses for technicians and the AGRs will likely partake in whatever boost their AD counterparts get.  AD has competition both from airlines and a RC that may have decent bonuses to offer. 

 

Sorry, Big Blue - timing is everything. 

[Bender]

^ + 5 likes if I could.

[RTB]

1 hour ago, ViperStud said:

...Great words of truth...

 Sorry, Big Blue - timing is everything. 

Hilarious!

[Duck]

Absolutely join...don't let these sour grapes force you into any kind of hasty decision.  You will regret that forever.

Once in, work your tail off and be the best in your unit.  Your leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want, all the way to Colonel.  If you don't "have excellence," yes, you could find yourself like some on this forum, fulfilling needs of the Air Force that don't align with your plans.  However, uphold the core values, and you won't need to worry about that. 

Be the best and you will rise to the top.

I try not to bash you on here but this is a complete lie. Sometimes it doesn't matter how good you are, AF personnel management is worse, and some AF Blue Chip Sq/CCs are only looking out for themselves. Sure if it doesn't cost them anything they may throw you a bone but believe me, few Commanders fall over anything to "hook a brother up" whether it's the right thing to do or not. Do whatever you want, I am just saying go Guard, you can still kill AQ/IS without being someone's stepping stone to O-6 or O-7. Just remember this, all the problems that we have in the Air Force comes down to piss poor "leadership/management" with ZERO accountability. Can you believe we are talking about stop-loss when these @ssclowns just cut 25K TWO FREAKING YEARS AGO. WTF?

[Duck]

I think this statement above confirms that Chang is pulling our chain.  And job well done.  And not only does it seem to be fun for folks to argue with him, but there seems to be something healthy about the airing of grievances, especially when so many others say the same thing.  But read the couple of sentences I quoted.  That isn't the kind of talk any GO would spew.  "leadership will fall over themselves to give you the choice assignments you want"...come on.   That kind of statement, including the next sentence, is 100% intended to rile up the masses.  

Again I say:  Job well done.   And I, along with others, will continue to argue with this troll for no reason other than my own self-healing.    

I disagree. This is the kind of dishonesty that it takes to fool people into 15 year commitments with no 20 year retirement. This proves to me that GC is most definitely a Senior "Leader" or maybe just a coddled Exec for some GO. Doesn't matter...

[Guest]

I've mentioned a time or two. "is this the current administrations fault, ie OBAMA, and HIS failed policies..." or what???

A STRONG military is what makes us great... don't even think about ing with us Russia...

Obama is such a puss that Putin, and frick even ISIS, are thinking we're an easy target.

Get it right AF, and the rest of Gov't... goddamn pantywaists...

  

[xaarman]

BAMF, who are you? Every one of your posts is raging against Obama. I suggest you re read our daily complaints and realize that the POTUS has very little to do with our gripes. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by xaarman

[Guest]

And PLEASE, just so I can set my compass on this issue. I'd like to know what posters on this forum lean to... I think mostly right, but nowadays I'm not sure anymore...

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, xaarman said:

BAMF, who are you? Every one of your posts is raging against Obama. I suggest you re read our daily complaints and realize that the POTUS has very little to do with our gripes. 

It comes down from the top...

[Guest]

Could be my point exactly. "POLITICALLY CORRECT" minded people on this forum helping to elect a weak kneed leader like OBAMA undermine their own future and happiness. 

[xaarman]

If the POTUS were micromanaging USAF additional duties, promotion requirements,  non-vol assignments and manpower reductions, we'd be raging at the POTUS. The problem comes from USAF/A1 and the middle management between Wings and the CSAF. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, xaarman said:

If the POTUS were micromanaging USAF additional duties, promotion requirements,  non-vol assignments and manpower reductions, we'd be raging at the POTUS. The problem comes from USAF/A1 and the middle management between Wings and the CSAF. 

And it all started 7 years ago...How many generals did Obama firer?

[Guest]

If you are an Obama supporter I now understand how sad a shape the military AND this country is in... God help us...