AnimalMother Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Ill just reiterate one of my main points here. You mean to tell me that 5 years ago we told a bunch of 11fs to go fly toy planes, and now, not only are we undermanned in 11fs, we're having retention problems as well and decide to offer a bunch of extra cash to convince guys to stick around just two years after we paid a bunch of them to get out early!? Good lord, I can't even begin to imagine what goes thru the tiny minds of the folks at AFPC. Oh well, at least with the extra cash a few more dudes might stick around and I won't have to worry about getting stuck with a random 365 to asscrackistan. But, in the end, this is just a cheap bandaid and some voodoo magic... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Pipes Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Doesn't just apply to late rates getting the shaft . Any prior-e with 4 yrs enlisted time that went to the zoo will be ineligible. ######! :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: Thanks Big Blue!!! Can't wait to see you scramble when all the AMC guys bail on you in the next year or two!!! If they could have had their shit together and just kept the bonus the same as it was then I could have signed it 6+ months ago when my ADSC was up... but since they are complete morons I am now past 16 yrs (late rated) and just lost $125K!!! What does 16 yrs as of 30 Sept have to do with anything??? We had 5 late rated or prior enlisted guys in my UPT class who are all still in flying now. The 3 prior enlisted have 20 yrs in already (or within a few months)... all 3 said they were going to sign the bonus if they could... all 3 have already told me since just this afternoon they will be putting in their separation paperwork tomorrow. Leave it to Big Blue to ###### up something this simple!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-21.Pilot Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Rusty - Just printed off this B.S. Like you, I just found out I wasn't eligible. Don't know if I was going to sign or not, but my TAMFS date is 7 Jan 1997.... I'll be talking to the CC tomorrow, giving back my deployment to AFPC, and living the good life.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 AnimalMother: for what it's worth, the 11Fs I know were all denied VSP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnimalMother Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Ok, I stand corrected then. Are those guys enticed by the new bonus, or are dudes still planning on punching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 What does 16 yrs as of 30 Sept have to do with anything??? We had 5 late rated or prior enlisted guys in my UPT class who are all still in flying now. The 3 prior enlisted have 20 yrs in already (or within a few months)... all 3 said they were going to sign the bonus if they could... all 3 have already told me since just this afternoon they will be putting in their separation paperwork tomorrow. Leave it to Big Blue to ###### up something this simple!!! Dude, that sucks man, sorry. My only thought is that the bean counters are fairly confident that someone in your situation (16+ years) will stick around for the additional 4 years regardless and thus no bonus is needed. I thought the 11F bonus to 20 years was pretty interesting. My hope is that the retention numbers this year for 11F's are better than last year, and that the numbers are little worse for everybody else...that way they may just offer the 20-year deal to everyone next year (coincidentally when I'll be eligible). It was also worth mentioning that inter-service transfers were not eligible either. Back in the 90's when a bunch of Warrants crossed over they were all getting to bonus back then, and that bonus was much more generous than what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Pipes Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Dude, that sucks man, sorry. My only thought is that the bean counters are fairly confident that someone in your situation (16+ years) will stick around for the additional 4 years regardless and thus no bonus is needed. I get that, but they could have had a relatively motivated EP for the next 5 yrs that would have been a great mentor for some young new co-pilots. Instead they chose to go with the pissed off EP who will spend the next 3 yrs encouraging every mid-level Capt and young Major to get out of AD ASAFP with endless stories of how Big Blue will screw them over. They also could have kept 3 more EPs for another 5 yrs (my prior E buddies past 20 yrs) with invaluable experience. To be honest I'm not sure if I would sign it right now if I had the option, but for guys in either of these positions Big Blue just screwed themselves. I may have stayed an extra year or two on AD, but as of today I'm already counting the days to hit 20. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeloDude Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I get that, but they could have had a relatively motivated EP for the next 5 yrs that would have been a great mentor for some young new co-pilots. Instead they chose to go with the pissed off EP who will spend the next 3 yrs encouraging every mid-level Capt and young Major to get out of AD ASAFP with endless stories of how Big Blue will screw them over. The Big Blue machine (ie the ones making the decisions on the bonus) doesn't care about me, you, or anybody else on this board. If they did, they wouldn't have given the boot to 150+ Majors in 2011. The hard truth is that we get paid to meet the standards, and don't get paid extra to exceed the standards. And those who exceed the standards are not always the ones getting promoted. What makes a good AC, IP, EP, CSO, officer, NCO, etc are not priorities of getting promoted, getting more money...it has to come from within, again, we get paid just to meet the standard. Some of my best MWS IP's when I was younger were the passed over Majors, not the go-getter Capt's or Maj's/Lt Col's on the staff. The passed over guys didn't care much about the BS, awards, trying to shine to get promoted, however, they did care about teaching the young guys and passing down their knowledge. They cared about the mission, the guys they flew with, and the young guys who were going to take their place--they cared about the young guy's ability to safety accomplish the mission. Like I said earlier man, it does suck to see you and other good dudes getting financially screwed over because of a technicality. I'd be pissed too. But I have a strong feeling that if you were a good IP/EP yesterday, then I'll bet you'll still be a good IP/EP tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11F Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 AnimalMother: for what it's worth, the 11Fs I know were all denied VSP. I agree. I don't know of any 11Fs who were granted VSP (it's not like they didn't volunteer though). However, I know of two in my MWS who were RIF'ed. Potato/Potahto, either way, two fighter pilots were shown the door involuntarily about two years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matmacwc Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Just lay it out for AD, or "guess"AnimalMother: for what it's worth, the 11Fs I know were all denied VSP. Nope, not current, but an 11F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) 11F = an extra $100K before taxes but you'll be committed to 20. 11 everyone else = no change. So, if I'm reading this right: $225k over 8 years? $28,125 per year, up from $25k. Right. So the AirStaff, contrary to popular belief, does have a sense of humor. I think the economics of a longer commitment is being lost somewhere. Old math was $15k per year for three years, vs. $25k per year for five. There is a huge fucking reason for the two thirds bump in annual rate for those extra two years. 12% for three more years on top of that? Not just no,... Following the old trend line, $40k/yr for an 8 year commitment, but even then... Oh well, I've got that "e" time, so apparenly I won't be eligible, but it should be entertaining, nonetheless. Edited June 25, 2013 by BFM this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 So, if I'm reading this right: $225k over 8 years? $28,125 per year, up from $25k. Right. So the AirStaff, contrary to popular belief, does have a sense of humor. I think the economics of a longer commitment is being lost somewhere. Old math was $15k per year for three years, vs. $25k per year for five. There is a huge fucking reason for the two thirds bump in annual rate for those extra two years. 12% for three more years on top of that? Not just no,... Following the old trend line, $40k/yr for an 8 year commitment, but even then... No, you are not reading it right. It is 25k a year until 20 YAS. That will be a different commitment for everyone. 10 at the most 5 or 6 on the low end. His 100k math was base on having 11 YAS at signing time making it a 9 year commitment. What 40k a year trend are you talking about? Bonus has never been higher than 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoneLobo Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 My question of the day, What is RDTM? and where can i got to find out what my code means? I'm an RPA guy with PAFSC of 11U and my RDTM code is FC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skitzo Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 What 40k a year trend are you talking about? Bonus has never been higher than 25. 3 year bonus was $15k per year. 5 year bonus was $25k per 8 year would be $40k per. Of the above three options, the best deal by far is clearly D) 0 year bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butters Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 3 year bonus was $15k per year. 5 year bonus was $25k per 8 year would be $40k per. Of the above three options, the best deal by far is clearly D) 0 year bonus. No it is not linear. The 3 year 15k was for uncommitted eligibles and was a punishment for not signing earlier. They are not additive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Fair enough. However you slice it, still a sucker's bet. At least it is at these mid 1990's prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Pipes Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Like I said earlier man, it does suck to see you and other good dudes getting financially screwed over because of a technicality. I'd be pissed too. But I have a strong feeling that if you were a good IP/EP yesterday, then I'll bet you'll still be a good IP/EP tomorrow. The two best IP/EPs I've ever had were passed over Majs who are both still legends in my community... and two of the best leaders I've seen in my AF career. No doubt that those in this situation will still be good IP/EPs tomorrow, but before today I wouldn't let any negative experiences in my career influence the guys I have flown with. At this point I feel like I owe it to these guys to let them know the possible consequences are of staying one day past their ADSC vs pulling chalks and walking next door to the ANG or RES Squadron who will most certainly be welcoming them with open arms in the next few years. I'd love to be able to tell these young kids that if you work hard and are the best pilot you can be that things will work out, but Big Blue almost seems to be going out of its way to prove that they don't give a shit about those who actually want to be good at their job... its seriously depressing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwatch Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 AnimalMother: for what it's worth, the 11Fs I know were all denied VSP. 11f and denied vsp Ok, I stand corrected then. Are those guys enticed by the new bonus, or are dudes still planning on punching? It's enticing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxhead Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Yeah, I pretty much knew this was coming and kinda wished I saved that "E" pay back during O1-O3. Oh well, at least I am staying with no strings attached. Gonna keep workin' hard, but really, it's going to become a contest between me and Big Blue as to who will cut the ties with whom first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Anyone able to get the ACP link in AMS to work? Got the robot email earlier today and I keep getting a "page not found." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Take two at the link to the ARP PDF (CAC required): https://myPers.af.mi...tail/a_id/25373 As previously mentioned, the PDF is FOUO, do not post it here or send it via PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperStud Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 For the 11F thing - anyone know what happens for 11F types that are doing a UPT gig or something else that you perform by having a different duty AFSC. I mean UPT instructors are 11Ts technically, does that mean they don't get the 11F deal if they're at a UPT gig at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDX1998 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 How does one determine YAS? That is the one element I need to understand for the offer since I am Late Rated... From the way it reads, I would consider myself ineligible. I feel like the AF and Congress has been sticking it to me a few times the past 4 years. I incurred $210k of debt from a short sale when I PCS'd from Vegas in 2010 (from a plain generic house on a traditional mortgage and not a $750k ginormous one on an interest only note). I was not eligible for HAP and I made too much to qualify for Obama's Making Homes Affordable program. The military friendly bank, USAA, stuck me with the balance to the tune of $748/mo for 20 years at 0.51% and my assignment could not be reclama'd even though I was slated to move during the same summer cycle as my return from a 10 month deployment. Now there is likely no bonus to subside the sizable debt incurred from my last PCS... Its not like I live outside my means, but I have 3 children and we have 2 cheap-o cars that are paid for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epsilon Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 How does one determine YAS? That is the one element I need to understand for the offer since I am Late Rated... From the way it reads, I would consider myself ineligible. I feel like the AF and Congress has been sticking it to me a few times the past 4 years. I incurred $210k of debt from a short sale when I PCS'd from Vegas in 2010 (from a plain generic house on a traditional mortgage and not a $750k ginormous one on an interest only note). I was not eligible for HAP and I made too much to qualify for Obama's Making Homes Affordable program. The military friendly bank, USAA, stuck me with the balance to the tune of $748/mo for 20 years at 0.51% and my assignment could not be reclama'd even though I was slated to move during the same summer cycle as my return from a 10 month deployment. Now there is likely no bonus to subside the sizable debt incurred from my last PCS... Its not like I live outside my means, but I have 3 children and we have 2 cheap-o cars that are paid for... Sorry man but I don't see how your poor real estate decision(s) has anything to do with the ACP. Nobody forced you to buy that house. Real estate carries risk like any investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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