Ram Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Latest from the CAF FB page says that the flight pay bump probably won't happen until October. They've been talking about this since February, but it's moving at the speed of government I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 No way it happens. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUSEPLUG Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 18 minutes ago, Guardian said: No way it happens. It better. I budgeted the financing of my 2018 Maserati based on the goodwill of our leadership and the increase in my flight pay. Fingers crossed... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl Hungus Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Flight pay needs to be approximately $1250 (from $650) and $1615 ($840) to correct for inflation since 1990. I expect it'll go to around $750 and $1000. The raise will show us how seriously management is taking this "crisis"... 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 What do you mean? We already know they aren't serious by the meager raise in the bonus. And those 10 pilots who told congress that money doesn't matter to them affected the rest of us for the bonus not being more like 50-60k. So what makes you think all of the sudden they will take it serious and increase flight pay?Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFM this Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 11 hours ago, FUSEPLUG said: It better. I budgeted the financing of my 2018 Maserati based on the goodwill of our leadership and the increase in my flight pay. Fingers crossed... I already put money down on our new swimming pool 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac airlifter Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 31 minutes ago, Guardian said: And those 10 pilots who told congress that money doesn't matter to them affected the rest of us for the bonus not being more like 50-60k. Yea, it's definitely the fault of a few random captains that the AF undervalues pilots. I'm sure congress was just about to give us 60$k annual bonuses till those guys fucked it up... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snoopyeast Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 1 hour ago, BFM this said: I already put money down on our new swimming pool Jelly of the Month club for you. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny Powers Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Jelly of the Month club for you.It's the gift that keeps on giving... Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I've said it before, I'll say it again. Congress doesn't trust the AF to be good managers of money. (Ironic...)Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Yea, it's definitely the fault of a few random captains that the AF undervalues pilots. I'm sure congress was just about to give us 60$k annual bonuses till those guys ed it up...Sorry. Didn't mean to blame those guys. Just congress for latching on to that message instead of the other messages they were delivering. Poor choice of words on my part. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I don't blame those dudes for voicing their opinions, but they probably could have framed the argument better. If money doesn't matter then why is the bonus thread on page 139? If money doesn't matter, then why do all the airline guys talk about how much money they can make and all the AD guys ease drop whenever the conversation comes up? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champ Kind Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 Maybe those guys had made up their minds at that point and no amount of money could have swayed them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daynightindicator Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I don't blame those dudes for voicing their opinions, but they probably could have framed the argument better. If money doesn't matter then why is the bonus thread on page 139? If money doesn't matter, then why do all the airline guys talk about how much money they can make and all the AD guys ease drop whenever the conversation comes up?They (at least half of them) were briefed beforehand that harping on the bonus would be a non starter with Sen Cotton. He already thought $25K was more than enough and he is stuck on the "service before self" mantra. They were advised (but not directed) that it might waste their valuable time with him if they went in guns blazing on the bonus. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperMan Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, daynightindicator said: They (at least half of them) were briefed beforehand that harping on the bonus would be a non starter with Sen Cotton. He already thought $25K was more than enough and he is stuck on the "service before self" mantra. They were advised (but not directed) that it might waste their valuable time with him if they went in guns blazing on the bonus. I can think of no better way to get to valid lessons learned than to skip the shot val, quarter back a root cause, and then chalk it up to a couple of execution errors. Sounds like a winning formula. Too bad it sounds like the Senator wasted some valuable time with those flying the line by putting up the lane bumpers before hand. I just wonder who it was who "briefed" them as to what the man was open and/or not open to hearing. Was it congressional staffers or AF people? Fvck it. Dark visor down. Banzai. ETA: I'm convinced the strategy is to buckle down, attempt to weather the storm, avoid setting a (high) bonus precedent, and hope for the best. Edited June 30, 2017 by ViperMan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daynightindicator Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 I can think of no better way to get to valid lessons learned than to skip the shot val, quarter back a root cause, and then chalk it up to a couple of execution errors. Sounds like a winning formula. Too bad it sounds like the Senator wasted some valuable time with those flying the line by putting up the lane bumpers before hand. I just wonder who it was who "briefed" them as to what the man was open and/or not open to hearing. Was it congressional staffers or AF people? Fvck it. Dark visor down. Banzai.HAF/A3 rep and SAF/LLBoth really good dudes. They weren't trying to dissuade the pilots from anything, just relaying the background on the situation and trying to give them some IPOE. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperMan Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, daynightindicator said: HAF/A3 rep and SAF/LL Both really good dudes. They weren't trying to dissuade the pilots from anything, just relaying the background on the situation and trying to give them some IPOE. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums So I guess they must have talked with the congressional staffers beforehand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daynightindicator Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 So I guess they must have talked with the congressional staffers beforehand?That's the impression I got. The negotiations over the bonus and retention issue have been going for a while. SAF/LL handles interaction with congressional staff, and they work closely with HAF on that stuff.Personally I wouldn't want to roll into a meeting with congress without a little intel on who I was talking to and what they already knew. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ViperMan Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, daynightindicator said: That's the impression I got. The negotiations over the bonus and retention issue have been going for a while. SAF/LL handles interaction with congressional staff, and they work closely with HAF on that stuff. Personally I wouldn't want to roll into a meeting with congress without a little intel on who I was talking to and what they already knew. I agree in principle, and also would want to walk in informed. I just think it begs the question "why"? i.e. Why do you need to speak to guys flying the line to "get the ground truth", but put certain "truths" off limits? The only thing I can think of is it was just an information gathering session to support pre-conceived conclusions for a (unknown to us) course of action that has already been mapped out. Kind of like my technique for completing ACSC papers - which we all know are bull shit: here's what I think, now I just need to find a couple of quotes that will support that...and, box checked, on to what I really care about. Makes me think these pilots were used. Edited June 30, 2017 by ViperMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 16 minutes ago, ViperMan said: The only thing I can think of is it was just an information gathering session to support pre-conceived conclusions for a (unknown to us) course of action that has already been mapped out. Kind of like my technique for completing ACSC papers - which we all know are bull shit: here's what I think, now I just need to find a couple of quotes that will support that...and, box checked, on to what I really care about. Makes me think these pilots were used. ACSC might actually be the best analogy yet to big blue's, an apparently Congress' approach... 'I don't care what the facts are, I don't care about getting to the bottom of the cause, I don't really want to even be talking about this. What is the absolute fastest way to make it look like I care, make it look like I did my research, but really just get a passing grade so I can move on.' 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air V Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 They could easily win a few points by making the flight pay increase retroactive for the fiscal year. It'd be a nice little bonus without any commitment required. It would show that maybe they do care an ounce without needing something in return. Should be doable since Congress gave them the OK on the increase prior to FY17. (it won't happen) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FourFans Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 They (at least half of them) were briefed beforehand that harping on the bonus would be a non starter with Sen Cotton. He already thought $25K was more than enough and he is stuck on the "service before self" mantra. They were advised (but not directed) that it might waste their valuable time with him if they went in guns blazing on the bonus. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network ForumsService bias bleeding through during Cotton's second career. Non-flying army officers in general do not like USAF pilots. Too much hair product perhaps...or perhaps it has to do with life outlook and freedom. Pilots have the airlines to look forward to (I cringe at typing that...I will deeply miss tactical flying), while ground dwelling Army officers get to look forward to being a civilian in the Army staff they just left. Working with the Army has taught me that they embrace the service first mentality at an epic level. Asking for more money would be hypocrisy to them. Sent from my iPad using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ImNotARobot Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 2 hours ago, FourFans130 said: Pilots have the airlines to look forward to (I cringe at typing that...I will deeply miss tactical flying) Cringe at what exactly? Getting paid more money than you can spend while having half the month at home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daynightindicator Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 I agree in principle, and also would want to walk in informed. I just think it begs the question "why"? i.e. Why do you need to speak to guys flying the line to "get the ground truth", but put certain "truths" off limits? The only thing I can think of is it was just an information gathering session to support pre-conceived conclusions for a (unknown to us) course of action that has already been mapped out. Kind of like my technique for completing ACSC papers - which we all know are bull shit: here's what I think, now I just need to find a couple of quotes that will support that...and, box checked, on to what I really care about. Makes me think these pilots were used.Actually, the impetus for the meeting was a letter from an active duty pilot constituent of Cotton's. The writer suggested Cotton should get the pulse of the guys on the line, because he felt that message was getting filtered by the time it made it to the GO level. Cotton contacted SAF and asked for the meeting. Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cragspider Posted July 2, 2017 Share Posted July 2, 2017 5 hours ago, ImNotARobot said: Cringe at what exactly? Getting paid more money than you can spend while having half the month at home? I think Four Fans is saying that he will miss the tactical flying. That is what most of us will miss. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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