Nordstream pipeline sabotage?

[BashiChuni]

Quoted from your article:

 

”Thousands of nuclear arms had been left on Ukrainian soil by Moscow after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991”

[Prozac]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Quoted from your article:

 

”Thousands of nuclear arms had been left on Ukrainian soil by Moscow after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991”

Um, the Soviet Union had ceased to exist. Ukraine was not under any obligation to give any weapons left on its territory back because the empire they belonged to in the first place had imploded. Thankfully, some people with the foresight to understand that it was not in the rest of the world’s interests for Ukraine to suddenly become the third or fourth largest nuclear power on the planet were able to convince Ukraine to transfer its newly acquired arsenal to Moscow where it was thought they would be easier to monitor and account for. (Arms control treaties remained in effect with Moscow but would’ve been unenforceable with Kiev.)
 

Make no mistake, Moscow’s claims on those weapons was shaky at best and non-existent at worst. Western nations absolutely had to convince Ukraine to give them up peacefully and Ukraine’s price was a security guarantee. If you believe these were always Moscow’s nukes, do you also believe that the fighters, tanks, artillery, trucks, and myriad other military equipment that made up the armies and air forces of (formerly East) Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, and other former Pact nations should’ve been sent back to Moscow? I suspect you’re smarter than that & know full well that this is not what happens when empires fall. 

[dream big]

4 hours ago, ViperMan said:

No American troops are engaged. Soooooooo, what's your point? You're worried about things that aren't happening?

 

Not quite accurate. No American troops in Ukraine is accurate. We have thousands who have deployed to Poland and Romania. All it takes is a light in the powder keg and those people are in a very real threat environment, as are our fighters and AWACS flying around there. 

[FLEA]

3 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Um, the Soviet Union had ceased to exist. Ukraine was not under any obligation to give any weapons left on its territory back because the empire they belonged to in the first place had imploded. Thankfully, some people with the foresight to understand that it was not in the rest of the world’s interests for Ukraine to suddenly become the third or fourth largest nuclear power on the planet were able to convince Ukraine to transfer its newly acquired arsenal to Moscow where it was thought they would be easier to monitor and account for. (Arms control treaties remained in effect with Moscow but would’ve been unenforceable with Kiev.)
 

Make no mistake, Moscow’s claims on those weapons was shaky at best and non-existent at worst. Western nations absolutely had to convince Ukraine to give them up peacefully and Ukraine’s price was a security guarantee. If you believe these were always Moscow’s nukes, do you also believe that the fighters, tanks, artillery, trucks, and myriad other military equipment that made up the armies and air forces of (formerly East) Germany, Poland, Czech Republic, and other former Pact nations should’ve been sent back to Moscow? I suspect you’re smarter than that & know full well that this is not what happens when empires fall. 

These statements are 100% false. Allowing Ukraine to keep weapons was a very minority opinion at the time that contravened NPT principals. The nuclear arsenal was also minimally beneficial to Ukraine as the warheads were built to target the US and had a useful range that was inappropriate for targeting Russia's western state. Ukraine had administrative control of the weapons but not operational control. 

Also there very much was a SU when Ukraine left. Ukraine seceded after a vote of its parliament in August 91. The Soviet Union retained its sovereignty until December of 91. 

[Splash95]

On 2/9/2023 at 12:30 AM, Lawman said:

“Oh surely it had to be the Americans… they want to make billions off selling fallout shelters and iodine pills.” 

Lol that's not remotely what I said. I even stated flat out that I was not "convinced" it was us. I've read a bit now about Hersh's credibility issues and can understand why some discount his piece. Still, between my original first question, Biden's own words and especially the senate hearing testimony, it's hard not to discount the very real possibility (if not likelihood) that we did this. If true, as @ViperMan pointed out, one doesn't have to even consider it a bad thing. People can take the position that, in this proxy war against the Russians, any action that harms Russia and benefits Ukraine/the West is justified. I simply find the general reaction in this thread disingenuous, and I appreciate @Lord Ratner and @BashiChuni for willingness to share their skepticism. 

[BashiChuni]

How can anyone NOT be skeptical after COVID?! 
 

the burden of proof is on the feds. They have zero credibility. “Trust the experts” turned out to be the biggest hoax/crime in US history. 
 

also the 51 intelligence “experts” who swore the Biden laptop was “Russian disinformation”. That turned out to be a lie as well. 
 

 

[Prosuper]

Why is it that every movie or show you watch about the CIA there are always agents, directors or political heads are always dirty except for Tom Clancy fiction. Guess the Hollywood writers just have to read the papers.

[BashiChuni]

48:50

not surprising to me in the least

 

 

[ecugringo]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-intelligence-pro-ukraine-group-nord-stream-pipeline-attacks-report.amp
 

so it wasnt the russians

[BashiChuni]

No it was the Russians! -pawnman/FLEA/lawman/Prozac 

[ViperStud]

Good on Ukraine if they played a hand in destroying the pipeline. Russia invaded their country for a second time, so they cut off a major economic lifeline to the Kremlin. 
 

This only increases my desire to see the Ukrainians succeed. 

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

No it was the Russians! -pawnman/FLEA/lawman/Prozac 

Maybe we should send some foreign aid to Russia to help them deal with the loss? 

[Prozac]

Guys, guys….GUYS! Listen up. Bashi appears to have this all figured out. He’s onto some obscure intel that we’ve all just missed somehow (it’s called RT or something). Now, he apparently had the whole Covid thing shacked from the get go, so obviously the US government and all its institutions will be wrong about everything, forever going forward. I say we just save ourselves some time, make him the Chief of Staff & then hopefully get a successful presidential campaign going for him for 2028. We’ll be back to being feared and respected (alongside our Russian allies) in no time. 

[FourFans]

19 hours ago, ecugringo said:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/us-intelligence-pro-ukraine-group-nord-stream-pipeline-attacks-report.amp
 

so it wasnt the russians

I won't be surprised to find out that 'pro-ukraine group' had some very 'not ukrainian' help.  Lets face it, we're not going to hear the truth on this for about 50 years, and we certainly won't hear ANY truth on it from the current or even the next US administration, even though I have full faith we know exactly how it happened.

[dream big]

16 hours ago, pawnman said:

Maybe we should send some foreign aid to Russia to help them deal with the loss? 

We send foreign aid to Belarus so why not?

[BashiChuni]

On 3/8/2023 at 9:16 AM, Prozac said:

Guys, guys….GUYS! Listen up. Bashi appears to have this all figured out. He’s onto some obscure intel that we’ve all just missed somehow (it’s called RT or something). Now, he apparently had the whole Covid thing shacked from the get go, so obviously the US government and all its institutions will be wrong about everything, forever going forward. I say we just save ourselves some time, make him the Chief of Staff & then hopefully get a successful presidential campaign going for him for 2028. We’ll be back to being feared and respected (alongside our Russian allies) in no time. 

chief of staff doesn't pay enough plus i don't have my masters or ACSC in correspondence done...and don't foresee myself ever doing it

if you think the russians blew up their own pipeline you're a silly goose

[Prosuper]

On 2/10/2023 at 11:47 AM, BashiChuni said:

How can anyone NOT be skeptical after COVID?! 
 

the burden of proof is on the feds. They have zero credibility. “Trust the experts” turned out to be the biggest hoax/crime in US history. 
 

also the 51 intelligence “experts” who swore the Biden laptop was “Russian disinformation”. That turned out to be a lie as well. 
 

 

Looks like an invite list to a cocktail party to a swanky restaurant in Georgetown.   

[HeyEng]

Anybody read Danish? Apparently a small object has been spotted near the pipeline! https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/nord-stream-ekplosionerne-antenne-lignende-objekt-fundet-taet-paa-roerledningen
 

[uhhello]

24 minutes ago, HeyEng said:

Anybody read Danish? Apparently a small object has been spotted near the pipeline! https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/nord-stream-ekplosionerne-antenne-lignende-objekt-fundet-taet-paa-roerledningen
 

An object resembling an antenna has been found in the area where the Nordstream pipeline explosions took place last year. This is what Russian President Vladimir Putin says. - Specialists believe that it may be an antenna that must receive the signal that activates the explosive device, which may have been placed under the pipelines, Putin says, according to the AP news agency, stressing that he cannot confirm anything. - It appears that several bombs were placed. Some exploded and some didn't, but it's unclear why. In the video below you can see Vladimir Putin explaining what has been found at the Nord Stream pipelines.

At the same time, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs informs DR that "a small object has been observed in the immediate vicinity of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline." - The relevant authorities have assessed that the observation does not pose an immediate security risk and that there is no immediate danger to people or ship traffic in the area, the ministry writes in a written response to DR. Foreign Minister Lars Løkke Rasmussen (M) tells DR Nyheder that the object has been photo-documented. - We take that seriously, of course, and it is being investigated, he says. - When our authorities can say more about this case, they will say more about it, says Lars Løkke Rasmussen.

Putin calls theory nonsense Vladimir Putin also calls it "nonsense" that Ukrainian activists were behind the sabotage of Nord Stream 1 and 2. This is what the Russian news agencies RIA and Tass write, according to Ritzau. Last week, the German media ARD and Die Zeit carried a story with a theory about what may have happened in the time leading up to the sabotage on September 26, 2022. In the stories, it appears that pro-Ukrainian groups may have been involved. The sabotage has instead been carried out at the "state level", says Putin, according to the Reuters news agency.

Edited March 15, 2023 by uhhello

[tac airlifter]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/
 

looks like the Ukrainians did it, and the US government knew this whole time.

 

[Danger41]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/06/nord-stream-pipeline-explosion-ukraine-russia/
 

looks like the Ukrainians did it, and the US government knew this whole time.

 

But award winning journalist Seymour Hersh cited multiple anonymous sources and said the US did it! You’re telling me this entire thing is BS?!

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
 

What cracks me up about this type of thing is they could quote me as a “Senior DoD Official” and I’m just an O-5 complete dipshit that has pilot wings so therefore I must be an expert on all things aviation and foreign policy related.

[BashiChuni]

kind of like our "afghan led" raids...that had a pipe hitting force of rangers with two afghans handing out with the GFC...they can say anything and qualify it you know that!

 

[Lawman]

kind of like our "afghan led" raids...that had a pipe hitting force of rangers with two afghans handing out with the GFC...they can say anything and qualify it you know that!
 

How many Air Assaults did you fly?

I’m just curious if your pax list looked different than mine, because while what you’re describing it as looked accurate early, it damn sure didn’t match what was in my aircraft during the later years of the war.

But yeah, you got it all figured out.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[tac airlifter]

On 6/7/2023 at 7:30 AM, Danger41 said:

But award winning journalist Seymour Hersh cited multiple anonymous sources and said the US did it! You’re telling me this entire thing is BS?!

https://seymourhersh.substack.com/p/how-america-took-out-the-nord-stream
 

What cracks me up about this type of thing is they could quote me as a “Senior DoD Official” and I’m just an O-5 complete dipshit that has pilot wings so therefore I must be an expert on all things aviation and foreign policy related.

Media never has the full picture, as you and I both know quite well, but the general outline from open source angles paints a picture where the US likely helped with logistics & intel while the Ukrainians actually did it.  

And I get it; if I were a Ukrainian I’d be doing everything possible to hurt Russia inside and outside my country, and I’d attempt to drag another larger power into the mix to create dilemmas for my adversary.  But I must be wrong, Ukrainians are too pure for such tactics. It was definitely the Russians who blew up their pipeline… and the damn as well.

I do find it incongruent to support this massive act of environmental terrorism concurrent with domestic efforts to ban gas stoves.  But in the world of doublethink, there are no ironies.

[Danger41]

14 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Media never has the full picture, as you and I both know quite well, but the general outline from open source angles paints a picture where the US likely helped with logistics & intel while the Ukrainians actually did it.  

And I get it; if I were a Ukrainian I’d be doing everything possible to hurt Russia inside and outside my country, and I’d attempt to drag another larger power into the mix to create dilemmas for my adversary.  But I must be wrong, Ukrainians are too pure for such tactics. It was definitely the Russians who blew up their pipeline… and the damn as well.

I do find it incongruent to support this massive act of environmental terrorism concurrent with domestic efforts to ban gas stoves.  But in the world of doublethink, there are no ironies.

I pray that when the next disgruntled leaker puts out TS info it’s revealed that Greta Thurnberg actually blew it up in some fucked up false flag like the environmentalists in the Rainbow Six book.