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Monkeypox - a friendly discussion.


torqued

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1 hour ago, 17D_guy said:

Wait...did someone in the news take an exercise as an actual event? LOL.

No, it's actually spreading: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61506562

The point was that it would not be the first time that a tabletop exercise ended up being very prescient. I say good on them, I wish some of the BS exercises I've taken part of had been more accurate to real-world events!

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2 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Wait...did someone in the news take an exercise as an actual event? LOL.

The point being: just as before, these events are rehearsed before they are implemented. It's not that they're good guessers. Global non-governmental organizations know the ends they mean to achieve, but the outcomes haven't been nearly as predictable as was thought.

Unlimited growth in a finite system has consequences. Those who have the means and ability to look into the future can see what's coming. World economies are now dependent upon the financialization of continued economic growth. When they can no longer grow, they don't decline, they tend to collapse. However, if you want to attempt a managed decline in worldwide prosperity, you need methods by which you can control and manipulate a global population as they become unhappier, and angrier.

Happiness is not a position, it's a trajectory.

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39 minutes ago, torqued said:

The point being: just as before, these events are rehearsed before they are implemented. It's not that they're good guessers. Global non-governmental organizations know the ends they mean to achieve, but the outcomes haven't been nearly as predictable as was thought.

Unlimited growth in a finite system has consequences. Those who have the means and ability to look into the future can see what's coming. World economies are now dependent upon the financialization of continued economic growth. When they can no longer grow, they don't decline, they tend to collapse. However, if you want to attempt a managed decline in worldwide prosperity, you need methods by which you can control and manipulate a global population as they become unhappier, and angrier.

Happiness is not a position, it's a trajectory.

So, giant global NGO conspiracy to kill people is your hypothesis?

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17 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

So, giant global NGO conspiracy to kill people is your hypothesis?

Slow down. I have no idea what your beliefs are, but imagine yourself as someone who believes that humanity is on an unsustainable path (see tragedy of the commons). That you have gone to great lengths to study and predict worst-case scenario outcomes. Maybe you've come up with some crazy ideas on how to fix the future. Some of them make sense, and some are terrible.

At the same time, you consider yourself a good person. After all, you think you're going to save humanity, not destroy it. Genocide would be evil. Aside from the moral and ethical downsides, policies of evil typically don't have long term success rates in human history.

Again, I know nothing about you. But if you were in this dilemma, how would you reconcile the need to curb human consumption (/reproduction), yet avoid committing evil deeds? Perhaps it would be frustrating that people either can't see or don't care about the future you're convinced we're destined for. You might feel justified in placing someone in a position to make the choice for themselves. Choose life, albeit at the expense of prosperity and freedoms, or choose a great risk to your personal health. Should too many people choose the latter... up the stakes.

 

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2 hours ago, torqued said:

Slow down. I have no idea what your beliefs are, but imagine yourself as someone who believes that humanity is on an unsustainable path (see tragedy of the commons). That you have gone to great lengths to study and predict worst-case scenario outcomes. Maybe you've come up with some crazy ideas on how to fix the future. Some of them make sense, and some are terrible.

At the same time, you consider yourself a good person. After all, you think you're going to save humanity, not destroy it. Genocide would be evil. Aside from the moral and ethical downsides, policies of evil typically don't have long term success rates in human history.

Again, I know nothing about you. But if you were in this dilemma, how would you reconcile the need to curb human consumption (/reproduction), yet avoid committing evil deeds? Perhaps it would be frustrating that people either can't see or don't care about the future you're convinced we're destined for. You might feel justified in placing someone in a position to make the choice for themselves. Choose life, albeit at the expense of prosperity and freedoms, or choose a great risk to your personal health. Should too many people choose the latter... up the stakes.

 

Step away from the ledge bro. Overpopulation is not the problem it once was. Birth rates are declining and it turns out we can probably support far more people on this planet than we thought even twenty years ago. This “global conspiracy to depopulate the earth” idea is such a stretch. There are so many disparate entities that would have to be working together, there is just no way. If it makes you feel better, I won’t turn on the chemtrails next flight. 

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1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Step away from the ledge bro. Overpopulation is not the problem it once was. Birth rates are declining and it turns out we can probably support far more people on this planet than we thought even twenty years ago. This “global conspiracy to depopulate the earth” idea is such a stretch. There are so many disparate entities that would have to be working together, there is just no way. If it makes you feel better, I won’t turn on the chemtrails next flight. 

I would agree with you that overpopulation is likely not the problem some may think it is. However, energy and resource consumption per capita has been an exponential upward curve since at least the 1970s. It's a math problem. I have no idea when we reach the limits of growth, but I think it's distant. Nature tends to revert to the mean and I trust that process. 

However, you're wrong in thinking there are not groups and organizations who believe the problem is imminent, and must be corrected. Back in the 1970s when "Limits to Growth" was published, it was met with a lot of resistance. Former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker famously said its predictions failed to account for human ingenuity and perseverance and the laws of economics are an inevitable balancing force. He was right, and the economic boom followed his policies. I digress...

Subsequently, it was determined by these groups that democracies and competing nations cannot be relied upon to act in the best interest of the planet. It wouldn't be such a stretch to suggest that the best way to enable an agenda for sustainable growth would be to circumvent democracies and act outside national borders. The best way to accomplish this would not be appealing to the public, (that's a proven failure) but to recruit and form partnerships of wealth and power (decision makers) that can force policy.

It doesn't sound like you subscribe to these ideas that the world is ending, and I don't either. But there are people who do, and they've put a lot of thought into how to bring human consumption under control. If you can control the economy, you can decide what and how much people can consume (CBDC). CBDCs need an infrastructure that the general public, at least in free democracies, won't willingly adopt. A global health pass system is effectively that infrastructure, while fear is the perfect motivator. Pandemics can incite enough fear to get people to accept a very different system in a short period of time, but are not nearly as deadly or destructive as the alternatives.

 

 

 

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On 5/20/2022 at 6:20 PM, Prozac said:

Step away from the ledge bro. Overpopulation is not the problem it once was. Birth rates are declining and it turns out we can probably support far more people on this planet than we thought even twenty years ago. This “global conspiracy to depopulate the earth” idea is such a stretch. There are so many disparate entities that would have to be working together, there is just no way. If it makes you feel better, I won’t turn on the chemtrails next flight. 

Yet there are many serious climate scientists going down this path. They are so convinced that greenhouse gases are going to destroy the species they haven't stopped to consider the possibility they, like every other catastrophy theorist, are wrong.

 

It's not an evil plan, it's a misguided belief that humanity is doomed. You have to put yourself in *that* mindset to understand the crazy conclusions otherwise rational people can come to.

 

There has always been an obsession within scientific and political circles with end-of-world threats.

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Only a handful of cases, and the POTUS is already pitching a new vaccine.

"Well, they haven't told me the level of exposure yet, but it is something that everybody should be concerned about. We're working on it hard to figure out what we do and what vaccine, if any, may be available for it.“ - Joe Biden, earlier today at Osan Air Base.

There have been 92 cases of monkeypox worldwide as of May 21, Latest World Health Organization (WHO) data. There were only at most five cases in the U.S. at that time.

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30 minutes ago, torqued said:

 

Only a handful of cases, and the POTUS is already pitching a new vaccine.

"Well, they haven't told me the level of exposure yet, but it is something that everybody should be concerned about. We're working on it hard to figure out what we do and what vaccine, if any, may be available for it.“ - Joe Biden, earlier today at Osan Air Base.

There have been 92 cases of monkeypox worldwide as of May 21, Latest World Health Organization (WHO) data. There were only at most five cases in the U.S. at that time.

Worth noting that if you've ever been vaccinated for small pox, the small pox vaccine has 85% efficacy against monkey pox. The viruses are in the same family. 

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7 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Worth noting that if you've ever been vaccinated for small pox, the small pox vaccine has 85% efficacy against monkey pox. The viruses are in the same family. 

True. But it is also worth nothing that the CDC has already advised that although it is effective, people who haven't received the smallpox vaccine in the last 3 years, should get it again to protect against Monkeypox.

Enter the pox "booster" programs, mandates, passes, contact tracing, etc, etc, etc...

https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/clinicians/smallpox-vaccine.html#:~:text=pre-event setting.-,Vaccine Effectiveness,85% effective in preventing monkeypox.

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9 minutes ago, torqued said:

True. But it is also worth nothing that the CDC has already advised that although it is effective, people who haven't received the smallpox vaccine in the last 3 years, should get it again to protect against Monkeypox.

Enter the pox "booster" programs, mandates, passes, contact tracing, etc, etc, etc...

https://www.cdc.gov/poxvirus/monkeypox/clinicians/smallpox-vaccine.html#:~:text=pre-event setting.-,Vaccine Effectiveness,85% effective in preventing monkeypox.

Beat me to it…except I was going to make the joke about the booster, and here it turns out to be an actual argument by the “health professionals”.

Isn’t the small pox vaccine a one time dose for military members?  

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28 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

https://www.newsweek.com/bill-gates-monkeypox-conspiracy-theories-twitter-microchips-who-1708138?amp=1
 

  Also, musical legends Right Said Fred tweeted their support for Bill Gates and the WHO being at the center of this monkeypox shitstorm that’s about to overwhelm us so it’s pretty much gotta be true right?

That's so ridiculous. Bill Gates is on record as saying the faster we improve health, the faster the birth rate declines.

He's wants us all to be healthier, not more sick.

 

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3 minutes ago, torqued said:

That's so ridiculous. Bill Gates is on record as saying the faster we improve health, the faster the birth rate declines.

He's wants us all to be healthier, not more sick.

 

  The thing I found the most ridiculous is that any US media publication would reference Right Said Fred in the year of our lord 2022.  Then I felt a little embarrassed, cause I didn’t realize that Right Said Fred was actually 3 people.  Then I was confused, because I had to process the fact that 3 individuals plus an unknown number of record execs conspired to release “I’m Too Sexy” on an innocent and unsuspecting world.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, torqued said:

"Well, they haven't told me the level of exposure yet, but it is something that everybody should be concerned about. We're working on it hard to figure out what we do and what vaccine, if any, may be available for it.“ - Joe Biden, earlier today at Osan Air Base.

Wow, the President wants to look into if we can use an existing vaccine or develop a new one to help protect people from a deadly virus, what an asshole!! /sarcasm

Folks, vaccines are really really good. Massive net positive for humanity. The levels of disease and pestilence and death our ancestors regularly had to suffer through are just unthinkable today, in part because of vaccines (and clean water & sanitation!).

Life pro-tips: Don’t shit where you eat, don’t drink from that murky stream of runoff, and get your MFing vaccines.

Edited by nsplayr
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