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Russian Ukraine shenanigans


08Dawg

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On 11/22/2022 at 12:38 PM, Blue said:

Don't usually get into the minutia of upvoting/downvoting, but @Best-22, why on earth would you downvote that article?

Contributes nothing, only downvotes. Probably someone's alternate account. upvotesdDownvotes are no longer counted on this forum. Why even bother?

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4 hours ago, torqued said:

 

UN just said over 100,000K Ukraine soldiers dead. Perhaps I haven't been paying close enough attention, but that number is absolutely staggering. More than all US service member losses since WWII.

It was the EC not the UN, and that statement was inaccurate/highly misleading and was almost immediately retracted: 

“Many thanks to those who pointed out the inaccuracy regarding the figures in a previous version of this video,” EC spokesperson Dana Spinant said in a Tweet a short while after the speech. “The estimation used, from external sources, should have referred to casualties, i.e. both killed and injured, and was meant to show Russia‘s brutality."

 

"But Russian propagandists immediately pounced on the 100,000 figure, with one accusing the EC of saying Ukraine is lying about how many of its troops have died since Feb. 24."

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-another-body-count-controversy

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15 hours ago, Best-22 said:

It was the EC not the UN, and that statement was inaccurate/highly misleading and was almost immediately retracted: 

“Many thanks to those who pointed out the inaccuracy regarding the figures in a previous version of this video,” EC spokesperson Dana Spinant said in a Tweet a short while after the speech. “The estimation used, from external sources, should have referred to casualties, i.e. both killed and injured, and was meant to show Russia‘s brutality."

 

"But Russian propagandists immediately pounced on the 100,000 figure, with one accusing the EC of saying Ukraine is lying about how many of its troops have died since Feb. 24."

 

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-another-body-count-controversy

I'm relieved to hear that the official numbers this EU official reported in her official statement about the Ukraine conflict were not accurate. I wish there were no Ukrainian casualties. However, it's good to know if you notice inconsistencies in their statements and call them into question, you're a Russian propagandist.

I wonder how they distinguished between the people who pointed out the inaccuracy, and the Russian propagandists who "pounced" on it.

Nice to see you finally contributing to the discussion. Welcome!

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I listen to Breaking Points regularly and this monologue was about NATO contributions to Ukraine. 
 

Info from it, we (just us) gave more money to Ukraine in a year than we did to South Vietnam from 1956-1975 and more than we did in all of Afghanistan + and all the way back to 1946. Guess how much NATO is contributing…

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https://www.statista.com/statistics/1303432/total-bilateral-aid-to-ukraine/
 

We’ve provided the vast majority of direct mil aid, the EU has provided more financial aid. Individual EU/NATO countries have made additional contributions.

All well worth it, I’m perfectly happy let the Russian armed forces crash against the hard rocks of Ukraine for as long as those idiots want to do so!

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I think we’ve sent too much money and materiel, but I also generally agree with nsplayr’s statement. If the current state of our own country wasn’t such an epic dumpster fire of a crisis, then I’d have less fucks to give about UKR support. It was smart to do so for a while, but we’ve gone too far given the state of our own house. 

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2 minutes ago, brabus said:

It was smart to do so for a while, but we’ve gone too far given the state of our own house. 

If Peter Zeihan is to be believed (the first bullet is his point, he has explicitly said what follows is what he's heard from some folks), here's the calculus at the strategic level:

-Russia will not stop with Ukraine, they will continue expanding till they have secured defensible borders.  They view it as an existential problem.

-The Russian military has proven to be awful and would get monkey stomped by the western/NATO coalition that would meet them.  Which means there is almost no way to avoid a nuclear exchange.

-So the Russian military needs to be attritted in Ukraine.  Win, lose, or draw, what remains needs to be incapable of continued offense.

If that is actually what is going on in the head-shed.  I'd imagine this is a blank check.

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2 hours ago, brabus said:

If the current state of our own country wasn’t such an epic dumpster fire of a crisis… 

Counterpoint: I think the US is in a great position post-COVID, and pre-COVID we were still unquestionably the global #1.

China is getting absolutely rekt by the virus right now due to extremely poor central government policy choices. I truly feel bad for the Chinese people. Russia is in shambles both militarily, financially, and demographically. I don’t see how they recover from the massive loss of young male life and national wealth in my lifetime. The EU is closely allied with us and we’re working together really well on the Ukraine War. No one else matters that much to be in the same conversation yet.

Meanwhile the US economy is doing better than basically any other advanced nation, we’re also basically past COVID, we’re smartly re-shoring some critical manufacturing that I think is really beneficial long-term, and we’re super well placed to lead the big energy technology transition that will take place over the next 20 years.

Our military is well funded and strong, millions of people want to come here and become Americans, and our culture is globally dominant.

I’d rather be us every day of the week and twice on Sunday 🇺🇸🦅

 

Edited by nsplayr
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Where were all these people complaining about Ukrainian aid when we spent 20+ years of blood and treasure fighting the boogey man with no strategy or will to "win"? We're now destroying what we thought was a peer enemy without any commitment of American blood....yet.  

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