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Russian Ukraine shenanigans


08Dawg

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3 hours ago, herkbier said:

It is exactly like that. 

Concur

2 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

They’re already at the UN saying there’s a genocide in Donbas against Russian speakers. Can’t wait.

Was pretty sure that would be the pretext / story / excuse.  

Well, we'll need an investigation, a study group all while the bear eats his kill.

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Well this is the same administration with a different president.

Seriously, there are no "Biden" people. Never have been. Everyone in this administration is from the Obama camp. No surprise we're seeing the same weak foreign policy.

When your political ideology is founded on the idea that the evil in the world is caused by American interventionalism, the obvious strategy is to stop intervening.

And when that doesn't work, you stand at a podium and make excuses or outright deny reality.

Seem familiar?

True 

40 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Copy that, good on 'em.

 

NEO - are we gonna need it to get civilians out of Europe or just to the adjacent countries?  If they won't accept refugees (in the 100s of thousands or million plus), where do they go?

New security footprint in Europe?  If they invade, still an if, do we return to a sizeable US forces forward based deterrence posture?  One that is land power centric, how do we pay for it or do we rob Peter to pay Paul?

That's just the military / security part, does anyone in power today have the balls to go full Cold War and choke out the regime of Putin by other means?  Full spectrum DIME warfare but not going hot.

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31 minutes ago, Lawman said:

Well after all it is the same Brigade and Command Structure that was tossed into the ring for he last foreign policy disaster.
They’ve got experience in this sort of thing now.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

GD it you're right.

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Time the start of active combat with the end of the Olympics.

Realize it takes advantage of the short attention spans and selfish nature of world media. Buys them extra hours to make gains before the general mob of people even realize it’s happening.


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Russians lost at hockey? Probably go time.
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Not that I'm a professional at False-Flag operations, but it has been a joy to watch Russia screw it up so bad. If you haven't seen the videos of "Attempted chemical plant sabotage by Ukrainians"...

Where the attackers are speaking polish, the meta-data shows the film created 2 days before the attack was said to happen, and in that metadata you can see the audio tracks used, that include sound effects from a live fire exercise 10 years ago...

The level of production these guys have is well below Logjammin', and there are many more examples like this out there. 

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2 hours ago, FLEA said:

Man, how big of a parachute do you need to slow down a literal falling tank.... Wonder what size canopy that things rigged with....

those pussies, the A-Team flew a tank by firing it at appropriate times

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3 hours ago, FLEA said:

Man, how big of a parachute do you need to slow down a literal falling tank.... Wonder what size canopy that things rigged with....

Not a big one, but a lot of smaller ones.  We use 8-10(ish) G-11s for something that size if memory serves me right.  Simple math.  Airdropping tanks is the most inefficient way deploying that kind of combat power though.  More initial shock-troop value than anything else.  Especially when you're dropping something that a simple RPG can take out after it lands.  It also really messes up the tank when you drop it, especially the way the Russians do it with their airbag system.

...that'll be irrelevant after the the Patriot or the Stinger impacts though...

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8 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Not a big one, but a lot of smaller ones.  We use 8-10(ish) G-11s for something that size if memory serves me right.  Simple math.  Airdropping tanks is the most inefficient way deploying that kind of combat power though.  More initial shock-troop value than anything else.  Especially when you're dropping something that a simple RPG can take out after it lands.  It also really messes up the tank when you drop it, especially the way the Russians do it with their airbag system.

...that'll be irrelevant after the the Patriot or the Stinger impacts though...

I know since the beginning of armored warfare doctrine says that the best way to kill a tank or other armored vehicle for that matter is a tank. Now I'm leaning toward a Javelin as Ukraine's way of inflicting max pain on Russian armor. I hope they have a bunch of them "behind every blade of grass"

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As I’ve been saying all along…Putin is playing Biden and Europe like a fiddle.  It’s actually pretty impressive.

And to the progressives and war-hawks on here, this isn’t a pro-Russia statement, rather just looking at the situation objectively and without emotion.

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9 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

As I’ve been saying all along…Putin is playing Biden and Europe like a fiddle.  It’s actually pretty impressive.

And to the progressives and war-hawks on here, this isn’t a pro-Russia statement, rather just looking at the situation objectively and without emotion.

So, what should our strategy be here? You say you are against direct military action (as am I), but without the threat of direct NATO involvement, Putin is going to do what Putin does. Not sure there are many good options here. Sanctions & continued material support to Ukraine are about all that’s on the table short of full scale war. Let’s be clear here; this is taking place because Putin has an extreme hard on for Ukraine & the former Soviet empire. The blame rests solely with him. Also, I’m curious who you think is a “war hawk” here? I don’t recall a single poster advocating for direct military action against Russia. What many of us DO want is for the autocratic regime in Moscow to be held to account for its actions and not simply be given a pass. 

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1 minute ago, Prozac said:

So, what should our strategy be here? You say you are against direct military action (as am I), but without the threat of direct NATO involvement, Putin is going to do what Putin does. Not sure there are many good options here. Sanctions & continued material support to Ukraine are about all that’s on the table short of full scale war. Let’s be clear here; this is taking place because Putin has an extreme hard on for Ukraine & the former Soviet empire. The blame rests solely with him. Also, I’m curious who you think is a “war hawk” here? I don’t recall a single poster advocating for direct military action against Russia. What many of us DO want is for the autocratic regime in Moscow to be held to account for its actions and not simply be given a pass. 

I actually support Biden not intervening militarily…and I’m not a huge proponent of aggressive sanctions as that will also hurt us economically.  
 

What I suggest is that if the European nations feel threatened by this action, then they should do something about it…but they won’t.  Germany doesn’t want the energy turned off, and a legitimate European response can’t happen/won’t be nearly as effective without Germany.  Putin knows all this.  This is what happens when you (ie Europe) become weak militarily and culturally.  They value expensive social programs vs security.  Just getting upset about something doesn’t mean much.  China is watching as well.

If Ukraine wants to make a stand militarily then they should do so.  I think their best chance at receiving any legitimate support from the west is to fight.  There’s something to be said with seeing your (supposed) ally taking heavy military/civilian losses defending their borders.  That all being said, I’m not so confident Europe would provide that legitimate support, so Ukraine won’t do much…and it will be somewhat of a similar replay of 2014 in the Crimea.

So once again…what Putin is done is impressive.  He’s taking what he wants and without much conflict (so far).  Not saying it’s good, right, or just, but impressive all the same.

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1 hour ago, HeloDude said:


 

 

So once again…what Putin is done is impressive.  He’s taking what he wants and without much conflict (so far).  Not saying it’s good, right, or just, but impressive all the same.

Indeed.

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54 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

I actually support Biden not intervening militarily…and I’m not a huge proponent of aggressive sanctions as that will also hurt us economically.  

Unfortunately Putin is banking on that kind of thinking. I agree with not intervening directly as well, but the US is in a viscous circle of short term thinking. The idea of not wanting to punish the Russian regime for this economically just because we will all feel some pain in our wallets and may have to wait an extra year before we buy that new car, reflects our weak resolve as a nation, and that we really have lost what being American is really about. It isn't about baseball, F150s and BBQs.  What would the WW2 generation say about total inaction? I think they'd be disappointed and ashamed. A generation of people, a lot of which whose lives were ruined in the defense of the free world, and this is how we act? By saying who cares/not my problem? 

I think there is a large argument to be made that this is a tipping point. If NATO has been expanding eastward, well than that is it's destiny. Why should we let him reverse that course potentiality without paying a hefty consequence?

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

 

If Ukraine wants to make a stand militarily then they should do so.  I think their best chance at receiving any legitimate support from the west is to fight.  There’s something to be said with seeing your (supposed) ally taking heavy military/civilian losses defending their borders.  That all being said, I’m not so confident Europe would provide that legitimate support, so Ukraine won’t do much…and it will be somewhat of a similar replay of 2014 in the Crimea.

So once again…what Putin is done is impressive.  He’s taking what he wants and without much conflict (so far).  Not saying it’s good, right, or just, but impressive all the same.

Agree. To bad we failed them when they asked for help. No modern air defenses from US, and Israel wouldn't sell them theirs either. The Russians have them so outgunned, which was their plan all along. Agree Putin has been impressive. It is our job to make sure at the end he looks like a fumbling fool. 

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Also, anyone see how weak the American sanctions were? Literally just two regions in Eastern Ukraine. Hit em where it hurts, huh?

"The order bars 'new investment, trade and financing by U.S. persons to, from, or in' the so-called Donetsk People's Republic and Luhansk People's Republic, located in Ukraine's eastern Donbas region, White House press secretary Jen Psaki said in a statement."

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3 hours ago, Negatory said:

Fox News in 2022 is amazing.

 

 

1. As a factual matter the statement from Tucker is correct.  Ukraine is not a democracy, the central government does not respect or protect rights of cultural Russians living in the east, and free speech and freedom of the press do not exist.  

2. that does not mean Russia is good by any means, just that reality is complicated.

3. Love or hate Fox, they are expressing what CNN/MSNBC are ignoring: the majority of our country opposes US participation in conflict with Russia over Ukraine.  

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Does anyone else find it ironic that the West is discussing carving up another European country for a dictator in Munich? I haven't done it yet, but I'd like to read Robert Harris' book after running find/replace for Czechoslovakia, Germany, Hitler and Sudetenland with Ukraine, Russia, Putin, and Donbas.  The book has been turned into a movie on Netflix:  Munich - The Edge of War and is a shallow look at the conference that kept Hitler going when he could have been full stopped.

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