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Volunteering to be the non-treated control subjects for a deadly disease is pretty much un-heard of.  The sociological, political etc. research will be as fascinating as the medical.  For example..will those who have refused a vaccine hold tough to the bitter end?  Have regrets? Sail on through?  Actually the sky is the limit when studying this event..The PHd's will fly like...I know...re-engined Buffs...

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On 10/16/2021 at 7:41 AM, dogfish78 said:

YOU THINK (((BEN SHAPIRO))) is part of the U.S. conservative movement? HAHAHAAHHA

Considering his enormous viewership, self-described conservative media company, and the fact that his talking points are reliably echoed all over baseops 6-9 hours after they air, yes. I do. 
 

So when do we get to the part where you make an actual argument.. because so far all I'm seeing is you drawing things out of a hat at random to disagree about.

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8 hours ago, Alpharatz said:

Volunteering to be the non-treated control subjects for a deadly disease is pretty much un-heard of.  The sociological, political etc. research will be as fascinating as the medical.  For example..will those who have refused a vaccine hold tough to the bitter end?  Have regrets? Sail on through?  Actually the sky is the limit when studying this event..The PHd's will fly like...I know...re-engined Buffs...

Been seeing a lot of stories like this. But I fully admit that some anecdotes don't add up to statistically significant data.  It'll be interesting when we collect the data in a large-scale study, for sure.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/unvaccinated-hospitalized-patients-say-they-regret-not-getting-shot-n1273342

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24 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Been seeing a lot of stories like this. But I fully admit that some anecdotes don't add up to statistically significant data.  It'll be interesting when we collect the data in a large-scale study, for sure.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/unvaccinated-hospitalized-patients-say-they-regret-not-getting-shot-n1273342

Ive also been seeing a lot of stories like this throughout the pandemic, but interestingly none of them have any evidence that withstands casual scrutiny.  Was there a single unvaccinated person quoted in your article about what unvaccinated people say?  Or just a handful of cherry picked doctors and administration officials?  Was there airtime given to anyone who could articulate an opposing viewpoint, or were they simply relying on authority to tel you what you should think while characterizing opposition as ignorant?

This far into our pandemic with so much obvious propaganda, I’m disappointed you wouldn’t exercise a little more critical thinking coming across obvious propaganda pieces like that.   What’s surprising to me reading that link, is anyone would view that without skepticism in light of so many similar yet debunked stories.

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32 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Been seeing a lot of stories like this. But I fully admit that some anecdotes don't add up to statistically significant data.  It'll be interesting when we collect the data in a large-scale study, for sure.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/unvaccinated-hospitalized-patients-say-they-regret-not-getting-shot-n1273342

And how many of those patients with regret sucking on a ventilator have multiple comorbidities and are generally unhealthy? The data says 95%. I bet they do have regret, as the vaccine would have been a less risky choice for them. Additionally, let’s not dismiss all the people who have regrets of getting the vaccine…it’s a large number, certainly anecdotally no less than heartstrings-pulling news stories like this one. 

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2 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

  What’s surprising to me reading that link, is anyone would view that without skepticism in light of so many similar yet debunked stories.

One example of many: just recently a story in Canada went on a on about this “perfectly healthy 14 yr old” who died from COVID and how refusal to get the vaccine was the primary CF. Except enter stage left when his parents come out and say he was terminally ill with cancer, and it was at the point they were expecting/ready for him to pass; the death was of zero surprise to them. The autopsy revealed he happened to have COVID at the time, which played no significant factor in the death. Once again, the MSM makes up a story hardly rooted in truth while purposely suppressing critical info/perspective that would otherwise sink their emotional sale.
 

So many people in the world have lost/never had critical thinking skills. At this point, every single thing you see on the news/social media should immediately be met with “probably complete bullshit/wildly leaving out countering facts” until you can validate with multiple sources (ideally non-profit/non-political ones).

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12 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Ive also been seeing a lot of stories like this throughout the pandemic, but interestingly none of them have any evidence that withstands casual scrutiny.  Was there a single unvaccinated person quoted in your article about what unvaccinated people say?  Or just a handful of cherry picked doctors and administration officials?  Was there airtime given to anyone who could articulate an opposing viewpoint, or were they simply relying on authority to tel you what you should think while characterizing opposition as ignorant?

This far into our pandemic with so much obvious propaganda, I’m disappointed you wouldn’t exercise a little more critical thinking coming across obvious propaganda pieces like that.   What’s surprising to me reading that link, is anyone would view that without skepticism in light of so many similar yet debunked stories.

What people relentlessly pushing this vaccine dont realize is the reason you have so many people weary of the vaccine is because they don't trust the institution (the US government, pharmaceuticals, and US media). When the news media push pieces like this that use deception (omission of facts, data, context or counterpoints), people see right through it, and it furthers their distrust. Why would I trust an institution that feels they have to deceive me? Maybe they're experts, but they're experts with an agenda, and any person's individual well-being is not part of that agenda. 

Edited by FLEA
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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

What people relentlessly pushing this vaccine dont realize is the reason you have so many people weary of the vaccine is because they don't trust the institution (the US government, pharmaceuticals, and US media). When the news media push pieces like this that use deception (omission of facts, data, context or counterpoints), people see right through it, and it furthers their distrust. Why would I trust an institution that feels they have to deceive me? Maybe they're experts, but they're experts with an agenda, and any person's individual well-being is not part of that agenda. 

It's unfortunate, because it means there is literally no way to get them to listen to new information.  The people doing the research are the experts they don't trust.  The people collecting the data are the medical experts they don't trust.  The people publishing the information are the MSM sources they don't trust.  I don't know how you introduce any new information to this group of people.

It is fascinating to me, however, that a large number of people who claim not to trust the CDC or FDA will jump all over any data that confirms their own point.  The CDC and FDA say vaccines are safe and effective?  "Can't trust them".  The CDC reports a rise in breakthrough infections?  "See, the CDC says the vaccines aren't effective".

 

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

It's unfortunate, because it means there is literally no way to get them to listen to new information.  The people doing the research are the experts they don't trust.  The people collecting the data are the medical experts they don't trust.  The people publishing the information are the MSM sources they don't trust.  I don't know how you introduce any new information to this group of people.

It is fascinating to me, however, that a large number of people who claim not to trust the CDC or FDA will jump all over any data that confirms their own point.  The CDC and FDA say vaccines are safe and effective?  "Can't trust them".  The CDC reports a rise in breakthrough infections?  "See, the CDC says the vaccines aren't effective".

 

It’s actually very easy.. you start with being truthful in everything you say. You have integrity. You admit everywhere you’ve failed to do that. You don’t tell white lies of omission for political reasons or to try and steer people one way or the other. 
 

Those institutions have proven they can’t be trusted. It will take time to regain the public’s trust.. that shouldn’t be surprising. 
 

edit: You also get out of the news = entertainment business. You engage in thorough reporting and cite reliable, vetted sources. You acknowledge opposing viewpoints without thinly veiled swipes.

Edited by herkbier
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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

It's unfortunate, because it means there is literally no way to get them to listen to new information.  

Not true.  Show some good faith and hold accountable those who have lied, then I’m willing to hear new info.  Fire Fauci.  That’s a great starting point for transmission of new info.  Hold accountable some of the many journalists who have engaged in the “noble lie” and attempts to deceive.

When trust is broken, step 1 to restoration is acknowledging the failure. Step 2 is accountability.  Without either of those, we can’t move forward.

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Just read Colin Powel passed from Covid and was fully vaxed.  I read last week some guy who won an emmy who was like 53 passed as well from COVID and vaxed.  Then I also saw a college kid at UGA died as well and was vaxed.  

I live in CO, 24% of all 900 hospitilizations are fully vaxed.  If the other 76% were, would they be in the hospital or is it just bad luck?  CO is one of the most vaxed states yet we are in our 2nd biggest wave.  We also have a city cop suing the city over forced to be vaxed who is not paralyzed.  I know there is a 33 yr old woman in Pittsburgh who also was paralyzed from the vaccine.  I personally know a college girl who was on scholarship and now has the heart inflamation from the vax.  At this point with all the breakthrough/need for boosters cases you can legitimately question the effectivness of shot.

The shot also doesnt end this.  It might help the burden on hospitals but thats really it.

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23 minutes ago, ecugringo said:

Just read Colin Powel passed from Covid and was fully vaxed.  I read last week some guy who won an emmy who was like 53 passed as well from COVID and vaxed.  Then I also saw a college kid at UGA died as well and was vaxed.  

I live in CO, 24% of all 900 hospitilizations are fully vaxed.  If the other 76% were, would they be in the hospital or is it just bad luck?  CO is one of the most vaxed states yet we are in our 2nd biggest wave.  We also have a city cop suing the city over forced to be vaxed who is not paralyzed.  I know there is a 33 yr old woman in Pittsburgh who also was paralyzed from the vaccine.  I personally know a college girl who was on scholarship and now has the heart inflamation from the vax.  At this point with all the breakthrough/need for boosters cases you can legitimately question the effectivness of shot.

The shot also doesnt end this.  It might help the burden on hospitals but thats really it.

He too was suffering from cancer but none of the headlines and only few of the articles mention that. 

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15 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

He too was suffering from cancer but none of the headlines and only few of the articles mention that. 

Yep, he was being treated for multiple myeloma, a type of blood cancer that prohibits the body’s ability to fight infections.

He had a history of prostate cancer as well.

It's also alleged he was suffering from Parkinson's disease.

By the way, people still die from the flu despite being vaccinated for it.  CDC studies show flu shots reduce the risk of illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to those used to make flu vaccines.

Even the CDC admits some people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick because no vaccine is 100% effective.  

But as we know in Powell's case, he had comorbidity issues...

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52 minutes ago, M2 said:

Yep, he was being treated for multiple myeloma, a type of blood cancer that prohibits the body’s ability to fight infections.

He had a history of prostate cancer as well.

It's also alleged he was suffering from Parkinson's disease.

By the way, people still die from the flu despite being vaccinated for it.  CDC studies show flu shots reduce the risk of illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to those used to make flu vaccines.

Even the CDC admits some people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 will still get sick because no vaccine is 100% effective.  

But as we know in Powell's case, he had comorbidity issues...

Was unaware of Powell's health issues.  The media conveniently left out those details.

We just had covid go through our home.  I'm 40, 160lbs, better health than when I was in the AF from 25-29.  I've been sicker, I know for some it's pretty shitty.  

My company wants everyone to get the shot.  I work remote and visit clients across the US so it's had to really justify.  Not against the shot, I just dont think its the silver bullet some think it is.  

Also, I dont think business travel or office environments will ever be the same again.

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Not true.  Show some good faith and hold accountable those who have lied, then I’m willing to hear new info.  Fire Fauci.  That’s a great starting point for transmission of new info.  Hold accountable some of the many journalists who have engaged in the “noble lie” and attempts to deceive.
When trust is broken, step 1 to restoration is acknowledging the failure. Step 2 is accountability.  Without either of those, we can’t move forward.

Fauci needs way more than fired for what he’s done to this country and the handling of this virus.

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22 hours ago, Pooter said:

Considering his enormous viewership, self-described conservative media company, and the fact that his talking points are reliably echoed all over baseops 6-9 hours after they air, yes. I do. 
 

So when do we get to the part where you make an actual argument.. because so far all I'm seeing is you drawing things out of a hat at random to disagree about.

Shapiro, Charlie Kirk, Turning Point USA, Prague U. et al are all media companies grifting off of real conservatives by acting as a pressure relief / controlled opposition valve that redirects the real conservatives’ energy into putting Israel (the contemporary nation-state) first, U.S.A. last while advancing globohomo domestically (and abroad).

On it’s face, what Shapiro says may sound “conservative”, but look a little deeper and you’ll see what his real goal (and his puppet masters’ goal) is.

We’re in an information war. No different than how “liberal” got hijacked as a word to mean a full blown Marxist agenda. I’d love for classical liberalism to flourish again. But the word is tainted in so many minds.

What do you think about Israel?

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13 hours ago, brabus said:

And how many of those patients with regret sucking on a ventilator have multiple comorbidities and are generally unhealthy? The data says 95%. I bet they do have regret, as the vaccine would have been a less risky choice for them. Additionally, let’s not dismiss all the people who have regrets of getting the vaccine…it’s a large number, certainly anecdotally no less than heartstrings-pulling news stories like this one. 

Who the fuck cares if they had comorbidities? Seriously. There’s a lot of fat/diabetic/immunocompromised/otherwise unhealthy people in this country. If they would’ve survived had it not been for COVID, why does it matter? Are their lives worth less because they’re fat? Sorry, but I’m not ok living in a society that discounts the value of human life based on general health. One of the things that makes us human is having some compassion for one another, regardless of Darwinian attributes. If we’re willing to write off the weak and the sick, then we’re no more evolved than fucking gorillas. 

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4 hours ago, Guardian said:


Fauci needs way more than fired for what he’s done to this country and the handling of this virus.

CN for those of us who don't want to listen to 3 hours of assumed BS from a spy-fiction author?

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12 hours ago, herkbier said:

It’s actually very easy.. you start with being truthful in everything you say. You have integrity. You admit everywhere you’ve failed to do that. You don’t tell white lies of omission for political reasons or to try and steer people one way or the other. 
 

Those institutions have proven they can’t be trusted. It will take time to regain the public’s trust.. that shouldn’t be surprising. 
 

edit: You also get out of the news = entertainment business. You engage in thorough reporting and cite reliable, vetted sources. You acknowledge opposing viewpoints without thinly veiled swipes.

Shack. Just stop lying. 

 

The institutions haven't lost wide scale trust because people just suddenly stopped trusting institutions. On the contrary, people just started catching the institutions telling lies. It's a completely rational survival instinct to stop trusting someone you catch in an overt lie. And considering the response from the institutions when caught is to double down, it's entirely predictable.

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54 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Who the fuck cares if they had comorbidities? Seriously. There’s a lot of fat/diabetic/immunocompromised/otherwise unhealthy people in this country. If they would’ve survived had it not been for COVID, why does it matter? Are their lives worth less because they’re fat? Sorry, but I’m not ok living in a society that discounts the value of human life based on general health. One of the things that makes us human is having some compassion for one another, regardless of Darwinian attributes. If we’re willing to write off the weak and the sick, then we’re no more evolved than fucking gorillas. 

The point is that it completely disrupts the very obvious narrative being pushed that "covid can get anyone." It's bullshit. A couple kids and a couple healthy people under the age of 40 die and their deaths are used as some sort of representation of why everybody is supposed to be terrified of this disease.

 

That's the lie. Some people, maybe you, simply can't accept the fact that others just don't care about covid. There's a vaccine, if you want to protect yourself, if you're fat, if you're old, if you have cancer, if there's any reason why you're at a higher risk, get it. So what the fuck else is there left to care about? 

 

What exactly is the point of these articles? So and so died, this 14 year old got sick, these 30-year-olds thought they were fine and then they got covid and died, what is the point? The point is to scare people into getting the vaccine. With misrepresented statistics. The point is to say *actually you're wrong, this disease is incredibly dangerous to you if you're young and healthy, and here's a bunch of examples of how risky this whole thing is*. It's using fear to motivate a desired action. Because the truth doesn't support the mandate.

 

I don't know anybody that is happy that fat people or old people are dying from this disease, but the conversation isn't about covid, it's about compelled behavior, vaccine mandates. So it's relevant if they had comorbidities because their death is no longer an obvious justification for government compulsion.

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10 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

The point is that it completely disrupts the very obvious narrative being pushed that "covid can get anyone." It's bullshit. A couple kids and a couple healthy people under the age of 40 die and their deaths are used as some sort of representation of why everybody is supposed to be terrified of this disease.

 

That's the lie. Some people, maybe you, simply can't accept the fact that others just don't care about covid. There's a vaccine, if you want to protect yourself, if you're fat, if you're old, if you have cancer, if there's any reason why you're at a higher risk, get it. So what the fuck else is there left to care about? 

 

What exactly is the point of these articles? So and so died, this 14 year old got sick, these 30-year-olds thought they were fine and then they got covid and died, what is the point? The point is to scare people into getting the vaccine. With misrepresented statistics. The point is to say *actually you're wrong, this disease is incredibly dangerous to you if you're young and healthy, and here's a bunch of examples of how risky this whole thing is*. It's using fear to motivate a desired action. Because the truth doesn't support the mandate.

 

I don't know anybody that is happy that fat people or old people are dying from this disease, but the conversation isn't about covid, it's about compelled behavior, vaccine mandates. So it's relevant if they had comorbidities because their death is no longer an obvious justification for government compulsion.

I think most people accept that fact. Obvious extremists on both sides. It’s just the callousness of not caring enough about those at risk in the population to not get the shot and help limit it’s spread. I’m not for mandating it. I do think using what used to be the arguments crazy anti vaxxers used but that are now mainstream to not get a shot is caring more about yourself than others, but that’s your choice. If I’m lucky enough to live to be 70+ I hope the generations behind us care more about us than we do of our elders.

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13 hours ago, herkbier said:

It’s actually very easy.. you start with being truthful in everything you say. You have integrity. You admit everywhere you’ve failed to do that. You don’t tell white lies of omission for political reasons or to try and steer people one way or the other. 
 

Those institutions have proven they can’t be trusted. It will take time to regain the public’s trust.. that shouldn’t be surprising. 
 

edit: You also get out of the news = entertainment business. You engage in thorough reporting and cite reliable, vetted sources. You acknowledge opposing viewpoints without thinly veiled swipes.

 

766BA186-AFAD-4EAD-83E6-EC76D208E909.gif

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1 hour ago, MCO said:

I think most people accept that fact. Obvious extremists on both sides. It’s just the callousness of not caring enough about those at risk in the population to not get the shot and help limit it’s spread. I’m not for mandating it. I do think using what used to be the arguments crazy anti vaxxers used but that are now mainstream to not get a shot is caring more about yourself than others, but that’s your choice. If I’m lucky enough to live to be 70+ I hope the generations behind us care more about us than we do of our elders.

I hope you carry this same self-righteous indignation into the election season and vote out those “callous and uncaring” bastards who can’t even wear a mask because they care about themselves more than others. Here’s just a few photographed recently: Biden, Newsom, Pelosi, Lightfoot, and Whitmer to name a few. 

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6 hours ago, O Face said:

I hope you carry this same self-righteous indignation into the election season and vote out those “callous and uncaring” bastards who can’t even wear a mask because they care about themselves more than others. Here’s just a few photographed recently: Biden, Newsom, Pelosi, Lightfoot, and Whitmer to name a few. 

This is how political the vaccine has become. Just being pro vaccine means I’m obviously an extreme libtard who down ballots democrats every time. I don’t care about masks unless a business wants me to wear it, and I think vaccine mandates outside of how we mandate other vaccines treads on peoples freedoms. But I think not getting the vaccine just to make that point using the same anti vaxxer arguments you probably made fun of 2 years ago while saying sucks old and fat people are dying is kind of ridiculous. Now go ahead and burn the witch.

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