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9 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

They absolutely do affect others by limiting access to healthcare because our healthcare system is overwhelmed by people with diseases that are self-caused. 

There are still significant differences that affect my opinion on it but I'll accept the extension just for the sake of not derailing the thread 

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52 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

They absolutely do affect others by limiting access to healthcare because our healthcare system is overwhelmed by people with diseases that are self-caused. 

Like Covid?

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2 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

Let's deny all obese people medical care that is related to their choices too - I'm down!

I can't get obese by being in a room with an obese person.

I can get covid by being in a room with someone who has covid.

See the difference?

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5 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I can't get obese by being in a room with an obese person.

I can get covid by being in a room with someone who has covid.

See the difference?

Again, valid until the vaccine came out. Now you can take free steps to protect yourself. 

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Just now, Lord Ratner said:

Again, valid until the vaccine came out. Now you can take free steps to protect yourself. 

Except that even having taken the vaccine...I'm still at risk of all the unvaccinated people piled into the hospitals.  If I get into a car accident, and there's no available beds...I could easily die in the waiting room.

And people want to keep bringing up "obesity" doing the same thing...hospitals were not overrun with obese people in February of 2020.  They weren't denying care due to obese people occupying every available ICU bed.  They weren't shipping people across state lines because obese people were sucking up all available resources.

 

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55 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Except that even having taken the vaccine...I'm still at risk of all the unvaccinated people piled into the hospitals.  If I get into a car accident, and there's no available beds...I could easily die in the waiting room.

And people want to keep bringing up "obesity" doing the same thing...hospitals were not overrun with obese people in February of 2020.  They weren't denying care due to obese people occupying every available ICU bed.  They weren't shipping people across state lines because obese people were sucking up all available resources.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

 

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So...15%. And out of what denominator? 

If 100% of the population were vaccinated, 100% of covid deaths would be from vaccinated people. This statistic isn't helpful without the vaccination rates. 

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6 hours ago, pawnman said:

One more time with the Kentucky study that shows you're more than twice as likely to get reinfected without the vaccine as you are with it...your "natural immunity" is not as good as the vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm

I think you’re misreading this one; I used to believe the same.

That study doesn’t compare vaccinated infection rates to infection rates of those who recovered from COVID.

It looks only at people who recovered from COVID: it compares people who recovered from COVID in 2020 and were unvaxed to people who recovered from COVID in 2020 and were vaxed. It showed that vaccines help even those who had the disease already. But it doesn’t show what you said.

There are actual cited studies on here that show that natural immunity is potentially more effective against the virus than pure vaccination. I think somewhere it was like 5-10x as effective as vaccination, actually, for a time period. It has been posted here.

 

Now there are other factors we can discuss, such as almost a third of Covid infections not resulting in effective antibodies, or natural immunity fading significantly faster than vaccination, but let’s be specific.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947a2.htm

Edited by Negatory
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Let me ask the mods directly: Why have my posts taking issue with another member’s use of a racial slur been removed? I see the post with the slur is still up. Please don’t tell me you are ok with a post using the word “ch**k” but not with posts questioning whether we want that here. I have enjoyed the banter here for many years. It gets spicy at times & is definitely not constrained by political correctness. That said, I believe racial slurs cross a line & that said line exists on this forum. I’d really like to continue to believe that is true. 

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1 hour ago, Negatory said:

I think you’re misreading this one; I used to believe the same.

That study doesn’t compare vaccinated infection rates to infection rates of those who recovered from COVID.

It looks only at people who recovered from COVID: it compares people who recovered from COVID in 2020 and were unvaxed to people who recovered from COVID in 2020 and were vaxed. It showed that vaccines help even those who had the disease already. But it doesn’t show what you said.

There are actual cited studies on here that show that natural immunity is potentially more effective against the virus than pure vaccination. I think somewhere it was like 5-10x as effective as vaccination, actually, for a time period. It has been posted here.

 

Now there are other factors we can discuss, such as almost a third of Covid infections not resulting in effective antibodies, or natural immunity fading significantly faster than vaccination, but let’s be specific.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/27/9/21-1042_article

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6947a2.htm

My point is that it shows why people who have recovered from covid should still get vaccinated. 

Slightly off-topic: 94% of the Air and Space Force have gotten at least one shot.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2021/09/29/94-air-force-vaccine-reluctance-falls-away-deadline-approaches.html

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I'm late to the fight. Use of racial slurs will absolutely not be accepted. Not in original posts or quotes. I'm removing them now. The original poster has been warned and all of his content must be approved by a moderator UFN. Prozac, your posts were hidden because you quoted the racial slur. I don't really have the time nor inclination to deal with racial slurs, in original posts or quotes. 

 

Knock it off

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Let me ask the mods directly: Why have my posts taking issue with another member’s use of a racial slur been removed? I see the post with the slur is still up. Please don’t tell me you are ok with a post using the word “c**k” but not with posts questioning whether we want that here. I have enjoyed the banter here for many years. It gets spicy at times & is definitely not constrained by political correctness. That said, I believe racial slurs cross a line & that said line exists on this forum. I’d really like to continue to believe that is true. 
Yeah, my bad on the original post still standing, that was in error.

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21 minutes ago, DFRESH said:

I'm late to the fight. Use of racial slurs will absolutely not be accepted. Not in original posts or quotes. I'm removing them now. The original poster has been warned and all of his content must be approved by a moderator UFN. Prozac, your posts were hidden because you quoted the racial slur. I don't really have the time nor inclination to deal with racial slurs, in original posts or quotes. 

 

Knock it off

Point of order - China is a country not a race.  

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Holy shiite this thread is scaring me. I can't believe this group has so many authoritarians in it. I assumed we were all Americans and mostly military members or at least members who served and swore an oath to defend the constitution. Some of you are straight out militant on your authoritarianism. Hopefully you are talking shit like you are sitting at a bar, otherwise you should be separated immediately and not placed any any senior level position.

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Holy shiite this thread is scaring me. I can't believe this group has so many authoritarians in it. I assumed we were all Americans and mostly military members or at least members who served and swore an oath to defend the constitution. Some of you are straight out militant on your authoritarianism. Hopefully you are talking shit like you are sitting at a bar, otherwise you should be separated immediately and not placed any any senior level position.
I sincerely hope you're not suggesting that the removal of a racial slur = I'm not fit for command.

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43 minutes ago, DFRESH said:

I sincerely hope you're not suggesting that the removal of a racial slur = I'm not fit for command.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk
 

What? Did I accidentally tag you or something? If you've been reading in this thread you should have a good idea of who's posts and all around dumbassery I'm talking about.

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What? Did I accidentally tag you or something? If you've been reading in this thread you should have a good idea of who's posts and all around dumbassery I'm talking about.
Copy rog. The timing of your post was immediately following my pitch in. Your comment on total authoritarian nature could have been directed at my decision to delete posts that included a racial slur.

All good, bugging out of this one now.

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1 hour ago, bfargin said:

Holy shiite this thread is scaring me. I can't believe this group has so many authoritarians in it. I assumed we were all Americans and mostly military members or at least members who served and swore an oath to defend the constitution. Some of you are straight out militant on your authoritarianism. Hopefully you are talking shit like you are sitting at a bar, otherwise you should be separated immediately and not placed any any senior level position.

It's scaring me to think we have this many officers who think they can willfully disobey lawful orders by calling their superiors authoritarians.

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I definitely agree!  Sadly I don’t think that you would support such a measure…or maybe you would?
I don't drink, so it wouldn't bother me. But I have plenty of family and friends who drink responsibly, and think it's worth covering as it's common enough of a vice. Plus it's hard for insurance companies to measure "too much" alcohol consumption, especially compared to something like tobacco use.
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1 hour ago, DFRESH said:

And? The term that was used is a racial slur against folks of Asian persuasion.

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It’s gone so I can’t go back and look, but IIRC it was directed at China, not “Asian persuasion,” since it was in the context of the Wuhan Virus.  I could be wrong, though.  I think we throw around “racist” far too much.    

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32 minutes ago, jazzdude said:
7 hours ago, HeloDude said:
I definitely agree!  Sadly I don’t think that you would support such a measure…or maybe you would?

I don't drink, so it wouldn't bother me. But I have plenty of family and friends who drink responsibly, and think it's worth covering as it's common enough of a vice. Plus it's hard for insurance companies to measure "too much" alcohol consumption, especially compared to something like tobacco use.

I don’t think it’s hard for medical providers to determine if the need for care had to do with consuming alcohol—certain liver issues, injured while driving intoxicated, etc.  So why cover it at all?  No one needs to drink (I no longer drink as well), so why cover what isn’t necessary?

The only way to fix our medical/healthcare system is to totally remove the government regulations forcing hospitals to provide care, forcing insurance companies to cover high risk individuals, etc.  But since the vast majority of Americans have been conditioned to believe that more government involvement improves their lives, well, here we are. 

Oh and the people I know who are refusing the shot are some of the healthiest I know—not overweight, exercise regularly, eat well, you name it.  So whoever posted the opposite, here’s another anecdotal data point.

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It’s gone so I can’t go back and look, but IIRC it was directed at China, not “Asian persuasion,” since it was in the context of the Wuhan Virus.  I could be wrong, though.  I think we throw around “racist” far too much.    

So because it was “directed at China” that makes the slur okay? I’m sure there are millions of people of Chinese descent living in the US and elsewhere who would give you a pass for using it with that explanation.


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