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1 hour ago, D-ron said:

Why is this guy still here? Has he added even one positive contribution to a forum that is dedicated to air force pilots and aspiring pilots? Is he even a pilot? Don't feed the troll.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

I've been a lurker for years, but the amount of tyranny and corruption on display, even within our military (shocking), has led me to actually start posting.

 

2 hours ago, kaputt said:

It will be recognized. Knowing that the DoD requirement was coming I went ahead and submitted my JJ vaccine card info on myPers last week and now show as green on the COVID vax in myIMR. 

How is that going to work if only one "booster" is under EUA? Can boosters be mixed and matched with differing 1s/2nd injections (if Pfizer/Moderna)/J&J injection?

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39 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

Don’t let it get you you down man, do what most of us have done and block him on your user settings.  And if that doesn’t center you, let this calming picture of a restrained beaver wash over you in an awesome wave.

 

92019abed53352ff9a5cc44911c229d175ca5b475656d8011a21c28387e22fb1_1.jpg

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Pooter said:

Uhhh that's wrong though. Here's their government letter from today. All they did was extend the EUA of Pfizer's injection and gave an EUA to Pfizer's Comirnaty. See top of page 12 in the document. & see this on page 2:

"On August 23, 2021, having concluded that revising this EUA is appropriate to protect the public health or safety under section 564(g)(2) of the Act, FDA is reissuing the August 12, 2021 letter of authorization in its entirety with revisions incorporated to clarify that the EUA will remain in place for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine for the previously-authorized indication and uses, and to authorize use of COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) under this EUA for certain uses that are not included in the approved BLA."

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download    This is the letter of authorization from today.

Page 12 I referenced above:

  • "This product has not been approved or licensed by FDA, but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA, under an EUA to prevent Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) for use in individuals 12 years of age and older; and

  • The emergency use of this product is only authorized for the duration of the declaration that circumstances exist justifying the authorization of emergency use of the medical product under Section 564(b)(1) of the FD&C Act unless the declaration is terminated or authorization revoked sooner"

Unless I'm reading all of this wrong, it looks like they're using using the word approved incorrectly as it normally would be used since it's actually only been "authorized" under an EUA. What do you see @Pooter? Am I missing something?

I welcome anyone else to chime in too.

 

Edited by dogfish78
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5 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

 

Fair enough, I'll bounce the ball back at ya:

1. Sure. But the Manhattan project was relatively small scale with a justifiable motive. To be able to annihilate the Japanese  because they were trying to annihilate us. What is the motive here of the pro vax people? Private corporations want to sell bogus vaccines (at the expense of a bunch of other corporations who have lost money over this shit show) to make money and all of the worlds governments are all "in on it"? I agree any government is capable of royally fing up and feeding horse shit to its own people. (WMD in Iraq??) But you're talking about such a massive scale here...is it possible? Sure. Likely? Not really. We make decisions based on likelihood. Could an asteroid hit the earth tomorrow and send us all to our doom? Yeaup. But are you gunna go spend every penny in your bank account on a wild night of hookers and blow because there's a .00001 percent chance you'll die  of an asteroid tomorrow?

2. Agree, the healthy you are better off you're gunna be. Not everybody gets great health tho. Some people are older, some have asthma, etc. If you are totally healthy, maybe you don't really need the shot. Cool, I get it man. Getting the shot isn't just about helping yourself, its about helping someone else who may not be able to defend against the virus. Maybe that doesn't work for you and that is fine, but why on earth would you join a branch of the armed forces?

3. Yea that's fair, I agree. But you cannot whine than when something like a cruiseline (PRIVATE company) says get a shot or no boat trip. Go start your own cruise line with no rules if you don't like it. You're anti-socialism right? If there is a demand...deliver the supply! This whole vax issue gets hairy with public school districts. Best solution IMO is to leave it up to each district to vote on it IMO, majority wins. 

4. No it's good too question, you have my backing there.  Also you don't want to be ridiculed and said you should't be made fun of for not getting a shot, but you also said you don't care about Pfizer employees feelings. Two way street than.  But this isn't about feelings. You're accusing Pfizer, Moderna and JJ employees of intentionally defrauding the American (and the world) public with a bogus shot. That's a mighty big claim. Agreed, the government has shown how bad it can be at tasks (I hear you on the Afghanistan pull out...utter disaster, and there is indisputable outrage from both sides of the aisle). But the government didn't make the shots, capitalism and the private sector did. So you don't trust the federal government, whose job it is to (even if they suck at it) to regulate private industry so stuff doesn't get out of hand...but private industry to you is entirely corrupted, a bunch of money making elitist CEOs with no morals trying to jam an necessary shot in your arm? So what is your solution? Who is it we should all be trusting instead? 

You don't feel like you need the shot so why should the an employer/cruise lines/the military be able to restrict you? I hear you, that does suck. But I also feel like I can do 90 mph more safely than half the people on the road can do 65 mph. I felt I coulda gotten my PPL at 20 hours, but the FAA made me pay to get 40. I feel fine ingesting lead paint flakes, but lead paint has been banned. 

I just don't get exactly what your problem or solution is. What policy do you actually want changed? Has anyone dragged you out of your  civilian house and jabbed you in the arm yet, like they would've in China? So the military (Federal Goverment) wants you to get it a shot and you're afraid it might harm you? What about when they shove you into Taiwan cuz some dick politician in China decide he wanted to unnecessarily invade and get a bunch of people killed for no reason...a stupid covid shot is gunna be the least of your worries, no?

 

Edited by hockeydork
Added clarity about you not being a civilian
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17 minutes ago, hockeydork said:

Fair enough, I'll bounce the ball back at ya:

1. Sure. But the Manhattan project was relatively small scale with a justifiable motive. To be able to annihilate the Japanese  because they were trying to annihilate us. What is the motive here of the pro vax people? Private corporations want to sell bogus vaccines (at the expense of a bunch of other corporations who have lost money over this shit show) to make money and all of the worlds governments are all "in on it"? I agree any government is capable of royally fing up and feeding horse shit to its own people. (WMD in Iraq??) But you're talking about such a massive scale here...is it possible? Sure. Likely? Not really. We make decisions based on likelihood. Could an asteroid hit the earth tomorrow and send us all to our doom? Yeaup. But are you gunna go spend every penny in your bank account on a wild night of hookers and blow because there's a .00001 percent chance you'll die  of an asteroid tomorrow?

2. Agree, the healthy you are better off you're gunna be. Not everybody gets great health tho. Some people are older, some have asthma, etc. If you are totally healthy, maybe you don't really need the shot. Cool, I get it man. Getting the shot isn't just about helping yourself, its about helping someone else who may not be able to defend against the virus. Maybe that doesn't work for you and that is fine, but why on earth would you join a branch of the armed forces?

3. Yea that's fair, I agree. But you cannot whine than when something like a cruiseline (PRIVATE company) says get a shot or no boat trip. Go start your own cruise line with no rules if you don't like it. You're anti-socialism right? If there is a demand...deliver the supply! This whole vax issue gets hairy with public school districts. Best solution IMO is to leave it up to each district to vote on it IMO, majority wins. 

4. No it's good too question, you have my backing there.  Also you don't want to be ridiculed and said you should't be made fun of for not getting a shot, but you also said you don't care about Pfizer employees feelings. Two way street than.  But this isn't about feelings. You're accusing Pfizer, Moderna and JJ employees of intentionally defrauding the American (and the world) public with a bogus shot. That's a mighty big claim. Agreed, the government has shown how bad it can be at tasks (I hear you on the Afghanistan pull out...utter disaster, and there is indisputable outrage from both sides of the aisle). But the government didn't make the shots, capitalism and the private sector did. So you don't trust the federal government, whose job it is to (even if they suck at it) to regulate private industry so stuff doesn't get out of hand...but private industry to you is entirely corrupted, a bunch of money making elitist CEOs with no morals trying to jam an necessary shot in your arm? So what is your solution? Who is it we should all be trusting instead? 

You don't feel like you need the shot so why should the an employer/cruise lines/the military be able to restrict you? I hear you, that does suck. But I also feel like I can do 90 mph more safely than half the people on the road can do 65 mph. I felt I coulda gotten my PPL at 20 hours, but the FAA made me pay to get 40. I feel fine ingesting lead paint flakes, but lead paint has been banned. 

I just don't get exactly what your problem or solution is. What policy do you actually want changed? Has anyone dragged you out of your  civilian house and jabbed you in the arm yet, like they would've in China? So the military (Federal Goverment) wants you to get it a shot and you're afraid it might harm you? What about when they shove you into Taiwan cuz some dick politician in China decide he wanted to unnecessarily invade and get a bunch of people killed for no reason...a stupid covid shot is gunna be the least of your worries, no?

 

To add...don't see you as an enemy dude. You're free to post your opinions just like anyone else in this country, even if we disagree. :usa:

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4 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

Uhhh that's wrong though. Here's their government letter from today. All they did was extend the EUA of Pfizer's injection and gave an EUA to Pfizer's Comirnaty. See top of page 12 in the document. & see this on page 2:

"On August 23, 2021, having concluded that revising this EUA is appropriate to protect the public health or safety under section 564(g)(2) of the Act, FDA is reissuing the August 12, 2021 letter of authorization in its entirety with revisions incorporated to clarify that the EUA will remain in place for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine for the previously-authorized indication and uses, and to authorize use of COMIRNATY (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) under this EUA for certain uses that are not included in the approved BLA."

https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download    This is the letter of authorization from today.

Page 12 I referenced above:

  • "This product has not been approved or licensed by FDA, but has been authorized for emergency use by FDA, under an EUA to prevent Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) for use in individuals 12 years of age and older; and

  • The emergency use of this product is only authorized for the duration of the declaration that circumstances exist justifying the authorization of emergency use of the medical product under Section 564(b)(1) of the FD&C Act unless the declaration is terminated or authorization revoked sooner"

Unless I'm reading all of this wrong, it looks like they're using using the word approved incorrectly as it normally would be used since it's actually only been "authorized" under an EUA. What do you see @Pooter? Am I missing something?

I welcome anyone else to chime in too.

 

Yes you are reading it entirely wrong.  It is now fully approved for people 16 and older, and still under emergency use authorization for ages 12-15.  There are multiple other cases for which the emergency use authorization still applies like administering a third dose for immunocompromised people. The emergency use auth doesn't magically disappear entirely because there are still untested age and vulnerability demographics.

But I'm sure you understand the FDA legalese better than.. the FDA, whose front page of their website literally says it was fully approved, today.  They also go on to say:

The FDA’s approval of this vaccine is a milestone as we continue to battle the COVID-19 pandemic. While this and other vaccines have met the FDA’s rigorous, scientific standards for emergency use authorization, as the first FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccine, the public can be very confident that this vaccine meets the high standards for safety, effectiveness, and manufacturing quality the FDA requires of an approved product"

 

But of course we already know that this isn't good enough for you.  Because nothing will ever be.  Yesterday it was "I'm waiting on full FDA approval" and tomorrow it'll be "Well the FDA is probably funded by george soros so who can trust them."  

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6 hours ago, Prozac said:

Pics? Throw a little inspirational material to the rest of us bro! 

Also FYI, don’t google hot COVID vaccinated squatting redhead from any government computer, it gets weird real quick.

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17 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

Notice how this thread which has had approximately 354 views so far, but only approximately 10 users interacting with it, means I already met my mission objective of sharing my links with hundreds of lurkers? No wonder you're clueless as to how the U.S. government failed Afghanistan, you think one dimensionally.

BigBrainInMirror.jpg

You know why you’re not even worth arguing with?  It’s because you cannot argue logically without resorting to an ad hominem toddler fit. Somehow you made one hell of a leap from vaccines to geopolitics when I didn’t even mention Afghanistan or the US government. 
 

Ok, boldface applies…

TROLL-FEED CUTOFF
 

 

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Here is what gets me.

The Trump supporters were so proud and quick to tout him for operation Warp Speed...he actually got the vaccine done in record time.  Now that Biden is in power and asking people to get vaccinated the same Trump supporters think the vaccine is the equivalent to getting a chip implanted in their brain.

Even though there is case law that supports mandatory vaccines for all (Jacobson v. Massachusetts), I am all about free will and choice.  There is a difference for the military...Ironically taking that oath to serve and protect the Constitution gave up all sorts of Constitutional rights.  If the vaccine is legally approved there is little resistance ground to stand on.  I think there most certainly should be further discussion and research on those who have already had COVID.

Having had a nasty fight with COVID....vaccinated or non-vaccinated, I hope you don't get it.

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11 hours ago, hockeydork said:

Getting the shot isn't just about helping yourself, its about helping someone else who may not be able to defend against the virus.

Not really…vaccinated spread the virus at nearly the same rate as unvaccinated (CDC/John Hopkins). This vaccine started at “97% keeps you from getting the virus” to “well it’s more like 40%…me scuzie, but your symptoms will be reduced!” That’s not to say the vaccine is a bad idea for many people, but it’s incorrect to blanket say people should get it to “help others.” I acknowledge that elderly and those who are unhealthy getting vaccinated will contribute to less ICU beds, and that does help others indirectly. But this generalized statement is misapplied to the low-risk demographics. 

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4 minutes ago, brabus said:

Not really…vaccinated spread the virus at nearly the same rate as unvaccinated (CDC/John Hopkins). This vaccine started at “97% keeps you from getting the virus” to “well it’s more like 40%…me scuzie, but your symptoms will be reduced!” That’s not to say the vaccine is a bad idea for many people, but it’s incorrect to blanket say people should get it to “help others.” I acknowledge that elderly and those who are unhealthy getting vaccinated will contribute to less ICU beds, and that does help others indirectly. But this generalized statement is misapplied to the low-risk demographics. 

Vaccinated spread it at the same rate as unvaccinated IF THEY GET INFECTED.  But the vaccines help reduce the total number of infected people, which helps prevent the spread to others.

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3 hours ago, brabus said:

Not really…vaccinated spread the virus at nearly the same rate as unvaccinated (CDC/John Hopkins). This vaccine started at “97% keeps you from getting the virus” to “well it’s more like 40%…me scuzie, but your symptoms will be reduced!” That’s not to say the vaccine is a bad idea for many people, but it’s incorrect to blanket say people should get it to “help others.” I acknowledge that elderly and those who are unhealthy getting vaccinated will contribute to less ICU beds, and that does help others indirectly. But this generalized statement is misapplied to the low-risk demographics. 

I am most certainly not an immunologist but I did see a story using this very argument.  The immunologist they were interviewing noted that part of the problem is the unvaccinated population in below herd immunity level so the virus continues to mutate, which lowers the effectiveness of the current vaccines.  If our population was indeed at herd immunity then mutations would be far less likely and those that are vaccinated would be far more effective at fighting even asymptomatic infections....thus reducing the spread.

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@pawnman @ClearedHot I agree with you guys, but I think our divergence in opinion is likely to what degree does it matter. Let’s say every higher risk person is vaccinated (old, comorbidities, lives in a house with at risk family members, works in a hospital, etc.); the virus infects unvaccinated people (low risk), and vaccinated people (minor to no symptoms due to the vaccine). What’s the rate of those two groups of people going to the hospital and taking beds for 1+ days? Now throw in the reality today outside the hypothetical situation above - at risk people continuing to be unvaccinated…there’s your group that primarily threatens hospital overload.

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@brabus I understand what you are saying but I don't think it survives contact with our current reality. The problem is how do you PID all the high risk people.  We still don't know why but the virus can have a severe impact on people who would seemingly have zero risk.  I have no comorbidities and brother it humbled me. 

My COVID experience was crazy.  I had a low grade fever and some intestinal issues on Christmas Eve.  Christmas day I actually felt better.  I had flown my family up to DC in my plane and my annual was going to expire on the 31st so the morning of the 26th I did a self-assessment and decided to fly home...no fever...no other symptoms except fatigue.  I stopped in Georgia for gas and grabbed the courtesy car to go grab some lunch.  I made it to the main road and something told me to just head back to the plane and get home.  Still minus symptoms I took some preventative Tylenol, gassed up and took off for Florida.  I landed, taxied to my hangar, backed my truck out of the hangar to load it and WHAM it hit me like a ton of bricks.  Big fever spike, aches, chills...all at once, I almost called a friend to put my plane away for me.  Thank god it didn't happen in flight.  I felt like shit for about five days and started to feel better, you know the feeling when you have the flu and can tell you are on the backside...that is how I felt.  I went to bed thinking a good nights sleep and I would be better...the next morning it came roaring back even worse than before.  My family was still in DC and they all had it.  Both my mother in law and father in law ended up in the hospital...My mother in law was given, steroids, breathing treatments, Remdesivir and LAST RITES.  The doctor literally said "there is nothing else we can do and her infection numbers are still going up."  Thankfully she turned the corner the next day.  Eight months later my father in law still feels the effects.  He has comorbidities , she does not other than being in her 70's (very fit and active). 

I was home alone and kept getting worse...my best friends were checking in and bringing me food but man it sucked.  My pulseox actually went below 90 and at the insistence of my sister who is a nurse, I asked for help...the response from the Military doctor was "take Motrin and cough drops."  Thank god for my sister who did a conference call from Massachusetts and let the doctor have it.  "He needs steroids NOW!"  The doctor was an asshole and replied "using what rationale"...she again unloaded on the doctor and mentioned the hundreds of COVID patients she had been treating..."His pulseox is below 90%, his lungs are swollen, he needs help NOW!"  The doctor changed her tune and prescribed steroids.  I picked them up an hour later and within 30 minutes of taking the first pill I knew it was the magic pill!  My pulseox jumped to 94% and I started what would be a 12 week recovery.  I had a follow up with that doctor who said "Wow, great to know the steroids work, you were my first COVID patient."  I am a retired dude but after the fact I called the Med Group/CC and filed an official complaint...which I understand they did take seriously.

I have a great friend from High School who is a PhD Nurse in Miami...one of the hot spots.  The stories she tells are horrifying...truly horrifying.    She is in the middle of the second wave right now and almost all of the patients are unvaccinated and a surprising number have no comorbidites.  I've talked to her many times because I truly wondered about the vaccine and the conditions at ground zero.  She keeps saying they all wish they had gotten the vaccine.

I have another friend form high school and her 26 year old son has been in the hospital for 10 days...dude has no comorbidities and is an ultra-marathoner...no vaccine.

I have a few rental properties, one of my tenants just spent two weeks in the hospital and is now home on oxygen.  He is 32, no commodities and is again very active and fit...no vaccine.

My sampling is not scientific but it is enough for me to realize there is still much we don't know.  Again, I think people have a choice but given all I've seen and heard I hope they get the vaccine.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

She is in the middle of the second wave right now and almost all of the patients are vaccinated and a surprising number have no commodities.  I've talked to her many times because I truly wondered about the vaccine and the conditions at ground zero.  She keeps saying they all wish they had gotten the vaccine.

- did you mean to say unvaccinated?

- I think you're looking for the word 'comorbidities' :beer: 

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5 hours ago, Darth said:

Nothing like a person with 2 visible comorbidities (obese and elderly) telling us she isn't getting the shot so she won't become magnetized 🤦🏻‍♂️
 

I do hate these "people on the street" videos though. The daily show also loves to do them and it's such a cheap, intellectually dishonest way of lumping all your opponents' arguments into the stupidest bin possible.
 

There are intelligent people who have doubts about the vaccine. They aren't all raving trumper hillbillys on your grandma's Facebook page as this video would have you believe. I still think their risk analysis is way off the mark, but the media needs to figure out that personally attacking vaccine hesitant people is not the way you create converts. 

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1 hour ago, Day Man said:

- did you mean to say unvaccinated?

- I think you're looking for the word 'comorbidities' :beer: 

Yes "unvaccinated."  Fixed in post.

Yes "comorbidities".  Fixed in post. Spelled it right the first few times but spell check doesn't know the word.

:beer:

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On 8/23/2021 at 8:20 AM, Pooter said:

Now that the vaccine is fully approved by the FDA, one wonders why it is so different in your mind than the flu shot or the litany of other vaccines the military mandates. 
 

Or if you think mandating any vaccine is bad, one wonders why you volunteered to work for the federal government, surrendering much of your medical care autonomy. 
 

oh that's right.. because it's all political theater

So in theory, I agree with you. I got vaccinated as soon as it was available and I support making it mandatory at least within the DOD.  That being said, the left has made such a mess of Covid policies with their self righteous plight in ruining the economy that I can’t blame many people for being skeptical with anything regarding Covid and government mandates.  Yes, Trump and many republicans have also adamantly denied Covid’s existence but they aren’t the ones that ruined the economy over Covid.  Covid is real, the vaccines work and have less than a 1% side effect rate - but the left has left many people across party lines with a bitter taste in their mouth and complete distrust of the federal government to preach to them. I’m glad more republicans are actually encouraging the vaccine. 

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@ClearedHot Fair enough, and I would likely feel exactly the same as you had I lived the same personal experience.  Conversely in my personal experience, I’m 1-2 degree separated from 4 kids who have died from the vaccine (COD: Heart inflammation), as well as seen a few friends take 6+ weeks to get rid of “moderate” COVID symptoms following the vaccine (a couple self-DNIF for 2-4 weeks). Both of us have anecdotal experiences that have surely shaped our viewpoints.

With that said, a study hosted by CDC Mar 20-Mar 21 showed 95% of those hospitalized for COVID had at least one underlying medical condition. Another study done by Tufts (Feb 21) estimated 65% of COVID hospitalizations were specifically due to 1 of 4 in order: Obesity, Hypertension, Diabetes, heart failure. In the early days of COVID (Apr 20), a study conducted in NYC showed 94% had underlying health conditions and 88% had 2+. What’s interesting is the number from that early study is within 1% of the number from the most recent study, with the biggest difference over that time being the release of the vaccine, and the number is still the same.  

The data does indeed show majority of COVID hospitalizations are those with 1+ underlying health condition. Of course there are outliers/anecdotal cases as you appear to be one, and of course there are the other examples you gave. That does not cheapen your story or their’s, make them any less hellacious or less real, etc. Every one of us can loose a dice roll in life, regardless of our risk management, positive health/fitness priorities, etc. Sorry to hear you had such a shitty experience, and I’m very glad to hear you have recovered. 

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21 hours ago, Negatory said:

Maybe we should all stop using anecdotal evidence and instead go off the wide body of data that exists.

Anecdotal arguments are just appeals to emotion and are rarely rooted in any scientific evidence.

Everyone knows someone who knows someone.......

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