Covid Injection Tyranny - Share and Discuss

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

My only modification to what you said would be to ensure that members can quit without repercussion. I think in matters of wide social disagreement, tie goes to freedom. So members unwilling to participate in the military mandate should be allowed to leave. Of course, if they have any bonuses or other financial obligations they would also be required to pay those back.

 

Covid isn't a threat to military readiness, and the numbers bear that out. Old and fat. Everybody has an anecdotal story about a military member who got sick, but it does not represent a wide scale threat to operations. 

 

And as with all things human nature, the choice isn't between readiness issues stemming from a lack of vaccination and a mandate that eliminates COVID hospitalizations and deaths. The choice is between readiness issues stemming from a lack of vaccination vs readiness issues stemming from a minority rebellion to a poorly-justified mandate. A similar false choice was presented with masks and lockdowns. Universal compliance was never a realistic option.

Well, sounds like people who refuse the vaccine will get the chance to voluntarily separate with an honorable discharge. At least, that's the latest from my corner of AETC.

So I guess that's kind of like quitting the military if you really disagree with it. 

[tac airlifter]

5 minutes ago, pawnman said:

We do make Comirnaty here. It's the same drug.  I guess Pfizer could have just printed a few million stickers for the existing batches of vaccine...but then I'm sure someone would claim that THAT was also somehow a cover-up.

Can you find somewhere Comirnaty is available for service members?  I’m not being snarky, I have members asking and our Med group can’t find it.  Members are receiving orders to take Pfizer with an attached memo stating  it’s “chemically identical” to Comirnaty.  We’ll by this time there ought to be someone that has received Comirnaty.  Do you know of someone who has?
 

It’s just odd it was rebranded at all.  Combined with all the other messaging changes, it doesn’t generate confidence.  

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Disagree on both counts. Military members should be able to cut their enlistments/commitments short because of “social disagreement”? So nobody had to go to Iraq? If I recall there might’ve been just a bit of “social disagreement” over that one. Sorry, if you’re willing to lay down your life for your country, rolling up your sleeve shouldn’t be that big a hardship. 

To your second point, covid is ABSOLUTELY a readiness issue. It can directly affect a unit, as we saw when a whole CVN crew was beached early on in the pandemic. Even when it’s not sweeping rampantly through the ranks, vaccination status can mean the difference between quickly and easily deploying personnel where they’re needed.

Bottom line: this is part of what a military member signs up for. Suck it up or suffer the consequences. The whiners and foot stompers are part of the sniveling snowflake (to borrow a favorite conservative term) culture that is the last thing we want in our military. Good riddance to them. 

Your points are all non-sequiturs.

Drawing parallels between a literal military campaign and a vaccine policy is absurd. By that (lack of) logic, everything is readiness. I know a lot of shitty commanders who agree with you.

 

Second, COVID, the illness, is not a readiness issue. "Sweeping through the ranks" ≠ incapacitating military personnel. If we weren't testing everything with a pulse, something never before done, you wouldn't even notice a disease "sweeping through the ranks" unless people were dropping like flies. That happened in the nursing homes. Not in the military.

 

Now, the government policies surrounding vaccination have absolutely become a readiness issue. But that has little connection to the actual mechanics of the disease at this point, since the vaccines do not effectively limit COVID spread.

 

More importantly, and to your last callous and unimpressive statement, none of this is about the vaccine. This is about a society that is increasingly bullied and manipulated by politicians, bureaucrats, and "elites" who think they know best, and who get caught repeatedly lying and distorting in order to scare their "subjects" into compliance, while flagrantly violating their own mandates. Those subjects are too busy maintaining the functions of modern society to research every claim and dictate of the anointed leaders, so after catching them in overt lies over and over, they've just decided to say "let's go, Brandon" and take every subsequent claim as a lie. Five years ago they decided to elect their own liar when civility and coexistence failed. So now we have a bunch of people who think a largely safe vaccine is a threat to their family's health. 

 

But by all means, keep calling them whiners while simultaneously whining about their lack of conformity. That'll fix things. Freedom is good as long as you're only free to do the things I agree with, right?

Edited November 1, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[Prozac]

15 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Drawing parallels between a literal military campaign and a vaccine policy is absurd. By that (lack of) logic, everything is readiness. I know a lot of shitty commanders who agree with you.

No. An order is an order. Doesn’t matter whether it’s “take that hill” or “take that vaccine”. A legal order must be complied with regardless of wider “social disagreement”. The whole concept of a professional military depends on it. 

 

17 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Second, COVID, the illness, is not a readiness issue. "Sweeping through the ranks" ≠ incapacitating military personnel. If we weren't testing everything with a pulse, something never before done, you wouldn't even notice a disease "sweeping through the ranks" unless people were dropping like flies. That happened in the nursing homes. Not in the military.

I might be inclined to agree if death were the only possible negative outcome of a COVID infection. However, the effects of this virus run the gamut and it can absolutely incapacitate previously healthy individuals, especially those who are unvaccinated. I gave an example of an instance where that actually played out. Taking an aircraft carrier off the chessboard is a big fucking deal last time I checked. 
 

24 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Now, the government policies surrounding vaccination have absolutely become a readiness issue. But that has little connection to the actual mechanics of the disease at this point, since the vaccines do not effectively limit COVID spread.

Does it matter? That’s the world in which we live. CPDLC doesn’t make a C-17 any better at its mission, but it sure makes the planners’ jobs easier. 
 

26 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

More importantly, and to your last callous and unimpressive statement, none of this is about the vaccine. This is about a society that is increasingly bullied and manipulated by politicians, bureaucrats, and "elites" who think they know best, and who get caught repeatedly lying and distorting in order to scare their "subjects" into compliance, while flagrantly violating their own mandates. Those subjects are too busy maintaining the functions of modern society to research every claim and dictate of the anointed leaders, so after catching them in overt lies over and over, they've just decided to say "let's go, Brandon" and take every subsequent claim as a lie. Five years ago they decided to elect their own liar when civility and coexistence failed. So now we have a bunch of people who think a largely safe vaccine is a threat to their family's health. 

Don’t conflate my stance on military vaccination policies with the wider argument going on about mandates in society in general. While I’m a firm supporter of these vaccines, I do find civil mandates to be problematic and believe there are probably better ways to sell this to the population as a whole. Different story for those currently serving. 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

Can you find somewhere Comirnaty is available for service members?  I’m not being snarky, I have members asking and our Med group can’t find it.  Members are receiving orders to take Pfizer with an attached memo stating  it’s “chemically identical” to Comirnaty.  We’ll by this time there ought to be someone that has received Comirnaty.  Do you know of someone who has?
 

It’s just odd it was rebranded at all.  Combined with all the other messaging changes, it doesn’t generate confidence.  

If you're that obsessed with the label, go get it a Walmart, or CVS, or whatever your local pharmacy is.

 

[tac airlifter]

6 minutes ago, pawnman said:

If you're that obsessed with the label, go get it a Walmart, or CVS, or whatever your local pharmacy is.

 

Is it available at your Walmart or CVS?  Serious question; it’s not at mine.

[pawnman]

2 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Is it available at your Walmart or CVS?  Serious question; it’s not at mine.

I got mine back in May. Haven't kept track of the labeling since then. 

[Guardian]

So your vaccine hasn’t been effective since august? Booster yet pawn?

[glockenspiel]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

Yes, the submission part is clear in the phrase "true faith and allegiance." 
 

The thing is that the constitution is a rather long and involved document and it has parts in it outlining exactly who has authority (read: authoritarian control) over the military.

 

Article 2 section 2: makes the president the commander in chief of the military. 
 

Article 1 section 8: provides the basis for congress's establishment of the UCMJ. 

 

So it isn't quite as simple as swearing to support a piece of paper. Because that piece of paper says the president can tell you what to do, and so can congress through the UCMJ.  
 

The comirnaty/FDA semantics will get hashed out in court but the basis for the fed to make military members do something they don't necessarily agree with is absolutely there, and you voluntarily submitted to that control by taking the oath.

 

True faith and allegiance to the constitution ≠ Submission.
 

Article 2 section 2 says he’s the commander and chief. Got it. The commander in chief has rules to follow as well.
 

The unavailability of Comirnaty is not semantics. It  isn’t only something that people don’t “necessarily agree with”,  it’s not innocuous in nature. There are rules of how to vaccinate the military and we should follow the rules that are in place. Everyone, SECDEF, Pres., squad com all have pretty clear guidelines to follow and the order and implementation of this vaccine mandate was/is not lawful. Unless it’s waived by the president, an EUA drug cannot be mandated.

That’s my point. The whole trust but verify thing.

[glockenspiel]

12 minutes ago, Guardian said:

So your vaccine hasn’t been effective since august? Booster yet pawn?

But havent you seen the Kentucky sCiEnCE paper?

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

The unavailability of Comirnaty is not semantics. It  isn’t only something that people don’t “necessarily agree with”,  it’s not innocuous in nature.

Wrong. 
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-are-pfizers-comirnaty-and-biontech-covid-19-vaccines-the-same-or-different

There are people out there who are seeking real, legitimate, actual useful information with which to make a decision. You’re spewing out chaff, muddying the waters, and contributing to the dumbing down of this country by insisting on continuing to post this garbage. 

[Pooter]

2 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

True faith and allegiance to the constitution ≠ Submission.
 

Article 2 section 2 says he’s the commander and chief. Got it. The commander in chief has rules to follow as well.
 

The unavailability of Comirnaty is not semantics. It  isn’t only something that people don’t “necessarily agree with”,  it’s not innocuous in nature. There are rules of how to vaccinate the military and we should follow the rules that are in place. Everyone, SECDEF, Pres., squad com all have pretty clear guidelines to follow and the order and implementation of this vaccine mandate was/is not lawful. Unless it’s waived by the president, an EUA drug cannot be mandated.

That’s my point. The whole trust but verify thing.

I don't know why you're so hung up on this word submission. 

The point here is that you took an oath to a document. That document lays the foundation for how the military operates to include the authoritarian, hierarchical structure we call chain of command. That chain of command goes all the way up to POTUS and Congress to the extent that they make the rules in the UCMJ. 

This is why you can't just ignore an order and say it's because you swore allegiance to a document. It all falls under the document. 
 

And good luck with the comirnaty strategy.  Reputable sources say they're chemically identical.. which you'd think would be a relief to the hold outs who are apparently so concerned with the nomenclature attached to FDA approval and pharmaceutical branding.  Well, turns out they're the same. What a relief! 
 

Unless.. those hold outs are just political hacks and this is the latest poop they're throwing at the wall in the hopes it sticks. First it was "I'm waiting on full FDA approval," then it was religious opposition to stem cells from decades ago, now it's brand name issues. If I didn't know better I'd almost say you'll have problems with the vaccine no matter what! 

Edited November 2, 2021 by Pooter

[StoleIt]

A simple google on Pfizer vs Comirnaty naming convention:

Quote

COMIRNATY is the brand name for the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine. Now that the FDA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine has been approved by the FDA for individuals 16 years of age and older, it will be marketed as COMIRNATY. The use of the name Pfizer-BioNTech will still be used for individuals 12-15 years old since this age group has not been approved. There has been no change in the formulation of the vaccine since the name change.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/different-vaccines/Pfizer-BioNTech.html

 

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, Guardian said:

So your vaccine hasn’t been effective since august? Booster yet pawn?

I'll get it when they tell me to.  I mean, I haven't screamed that the flu vaccine is useless since I need to get that every year, so...

[pawnman]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

I don't know why you're so hung up on this word submission. 

The point here is that you took an oath to a document. That document lays the foundation for how the military operates to include the authoritarian, hierarchical structure we call chain of command. That chain of command goes all the way up to POTUS and Congress to the extent that they make the rules in the UCMJ. 

This is why you can't just ignore an order and say it's because you swore allegiance to a document. It all falls under the document. 
 

And good luck with the comirnaty strategy.  Reputable sources say they're chemically identical.. which you'd think would be a relief to the hold outs who are apparently so concerned with the nomenclature attached to FDA approval and pharmaceutical branding.  Well, turns out they're the same. What a relief! 
 

Unless.. those hold outs are just political hacks and this is the latest poop they're throwing at the wall in the hopes it sticks. First it was "I'm waiting on full FDA approval," then it was religious opposition to stem cells from decades ago, now it's brand name issues. If I didn't know better I'd almost say you'll have problems with the vaccine no matter what! 

Seriously...the MDG should just print some Comirnaty labels for the holdouts.

[bennynova]

16 hours ago, Prozac said:

Round and round with some of you guys. What do you think would happen to you if you refused any other vaccine? It’s absolutely a legal order & regardless of your wider views on civil mandates, I expect members of the United States military services to follow the legal orders of the officers appointed over them. If you can’t do that, GTF out or suffer the consequences. Don’t expect me or anyone else to have any sympathy or listen to your lame bullshit excuses. 

What’s legal about forcing a brand new vaccine on the military population who is largely unaffected by the virus?   
 

the long term effects of the vaccine are still unknown. 
 

history will be on my side.  I have no doubt.  We are living through a Marxist  hostile takeover right now.   And many (like you) seems to be able to see that. 
 

the vaccine is there.  People should have a choice.   I have missed at least 6 flu vaccinations during my career.  I was never forced out.  
 

I’ll remain the control for this “experiment” as long as I can.    I’ll let you know if I’m forced out.   So far, I’m still here.  
 

this isn’t political, except that it’s a freedom thing, and biden wants to take that away.    Trump got the vaccine, that didn’t make all of his followers automatically want it.   He’s old. He probably was a higher risk and needed it.     WE DONT need it as the military demographic.  Neither do kids.  

[bennynova]

Also, civs won’t be punished, is my theory.   They can’t be.   That was the wrong hornets nest to kick up.   
 

sure, it will scare some of the weak-minded into getting the vaccine.   But those that still refuse will be just fine. 

[bennynova]

16 hours ago, Prozac said:

KIO with this bullshit. You’re focusing on semantics and legalese that don’t mean shit. The Pfizer vaccine is approved and no longer experimental. Period. Dot. Quit acting like a toddler. If you don’t want the vaccine, fine. But man up and accept the consequences instead of being a whiny bitch. 

You are the experiment.   The experiment doesn’t end just because the FDA says so.   After all, they are paid to do that.    55% of their funding is from big pharma.   

[pawnman]

14 minutes ago, bennynova said:

You are the experiment.   The experiment doesn’t end just because the FDA says so.   After all, they are paid to do that.    55% of their funding is from big pharma.   

Do you feel the same about all the other vaccines you've taken? 

[brickhistory]

8 hours ago, Prozac said:

Wrong. 
https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-are-pfizers-comirnaty-and-biontech-covid-19-vaccines-the-same-or-different

There are people out there who are seeking real, legitimate, actual useful information with which to make a decision. You’re spewing out chaff, muddying the waters, and contributing to the dumbing down of this country by insisting on continuing to post this garbage. 

Well, that oughta take care of any more flybys...

Sure am glad you are appointed the arbiter of what is and isn't useful information.  Ditto for deciding for everyone else what's best for them.

Good gig.  How'd you get it?

[bennynova]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Do you feel the same about all the other vaccines you've taken? 

No, by the time I had taken those, they he actually been tested/in use for years/decades.     This whole covid thing is a scam.   And 70% of people are loving it and everything it has done to the world.  
 

we have a “vaccine” that mitigates symptoms for those who want it.  That should have been enough.   But this will never end until the collective WE, stand up. 
 

through this all, the rich have been made richer.   The small biz population has folded.    Governments have taken more authority.   More division has been caused.   All part of the plan, IMO.  

[pawnman]

4 minutes ago, bennynova said:

No, by the time I had taken those, they he actually been tested/in use for years/decades.     This whole covid thing is a scam.   And 70% of people are loving it and everything it has done to the world.  
 

we have a “vaccine” that mitigates symptoms for those who want it.  That should have been enough.   But this will never end until the collective WE, stand up. 
 

through this all, the rich have been made richer.   The small biz population has folded.    Governments have taken more authority.   More division has been caused.   All part of the plan, IMO.  

Anthrax?

 

[bennynova]

48 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Anthrax?

 

I didnt get it.   Didn’t deploy during that time.   

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, brickhistory said:

Well, that oughta take care of any more flybys...

Sure am glad you are appointed the arbiter of what is and isn't useful information.  Ditto for deciding for everyone else what's best for them.

Good gig.  How'd you get it?

Look, if people want to have a real conversation, I’m all for it. If they, however, want to spew lies, mistruths, and misinformation that has been debunked for months, they should be prepared to have their shit jumped upon. If I came out of the blue and said there was a secret ingredient in Cheerios that cures COVID and makes the male member grow by at least one full inch, I’d expect a vigorous and stinging response. Cheerios don’t cure COVID btw. Still hoping for some previously unknown long term effects on the other thing. 

[Sua Sponte]

3 hours ago, bennynova said:

Also, civs won’t be punished, is my theory.   They can’t be.   That was the wrong hornets nest to kick up.   
 

sure, it will scare some of the weak-minded into getting the vaccine.   But those that still refuse will be just fine. 

You don’t think losing your job is a punishment?