Pooter Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 4 hours ago, glockenspiel said: when some people dissent from social norm the rest of the flock will say “Politics” regardless of the reason for dissent. what can ya do? Here’s to another 50 pages lol Actually, we've heard the reasons and they're hot garbage. So all that's left is to assume you're buying into the current political food fight and hanging your hat on whatever the reason of the day is. But go ahead and keep thinking you're some kind of edgy free thinker. You and *statistically speaking* about 100 million of the least educated people in the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEA Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 14 minutes ago, Pooter said: Oh don't worry we are all well aware you guys have been banging the comirnaty drum since September. It's actually become ridiculously tiresome. And no matter how many times the literal people who made the vaccine say it's chemically and effectively identical that's simply not good enough for you. Oh and don't forget the best part.. that this is likely the first medicine in your life you've ever given a shit about the branding. Weird how that happens.. But yes, you're right. Nothing about your specific vaccine refusal overtly points to politics. It's more of a deduction that I made for the following reasons: a) none of your reasons for refusal make any sense b) it's a white hot political food fight culture war issue right now Well don't personalize your deductions here because as I've pointed out, I've taken the vaccine already, 3 times, and thanks to Europe's new laws, about to be on my fourth. I know it's difficult for you pro authoritarianism types to understand but there are people that legit believe in rule of law and individual liberty. So yes, as an officer, if someone is going to order my peers to be vaccinated against their will, I'm going to demand it be a legal/lawful order, and that it be an absolute last resort. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainMorgan Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Well don't personalize your deductions here because as I've pointed out, I've taken the vaccine already, 3 times, and thanks to Europe's new laws, about to be on my fourth. I know it's difficult for you pro authoritarianism types to understand but there are people that legit believe in rule of law and individual liberty. So yes, as an officer, if someone is going to order my peers to be vaccinated against their will, I'm going to demand it be a legal/lawful order, and that it be an absolute last resort. We have lawyers for that, and guess what, they reviewed the SECDEF and SECAF memos before they were released as well as the DAF memo today saying they would go forward with discharging the non-compliant. If they were concerned with losing in court to the “Pfizer isn’t Comirnaty” argument, they would have already updated the policy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prozac Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 45 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said: We have lawyers for that, and guess what, they reviewed the SECDEF and SECAF memos before they were released as well as the DAF memo today saying they would go forward with discharging the non-compliant. If they were concerned with losing in court to the “Pfizer isn’t Comirnaty” argument, they would have already updated the policy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk He’s smarter than the lawyers bro. He did his own “research” on the web. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLEA Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) 50 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said: We have lawyers for that, and guess what, they reviewed the SECDEF and SECAF memos before they were released as well as the DAF memo today saying they would go forward with discharging the non-compliant. If they were concerned with losing in court to the “Pfizer isn’t Comirnaty” argument, they would have already updated the policy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk They don't have to update the policy if there is concern. Have you ever staffed a memo like this? The attorneys just provide an opinion, and then in something contentious like this, they will also investigate how legally defensible they think a policy might be. Sometimes they'll tell you the policy might be difficult to defend but you can implement it anyway because by the time it takes to litigate you may already meet intent through compliance. It's much more complicated than "a JAG says it's ok" and even if the JAG gives sound or unsound legal advice, it doesn't absolve a commander of his decision. For example, I'm 99% certain there was probably a JAG in the TOC when an order was given to pre-judiciously off a US citizen, but you saw how well that one aged. Bottom line, the JAG doesn't make an order legal. He just offers his best legal advice. The legality of an order has to be determined by a court. So knowing all of this, I have to examine the context. The DoD JAG that reviewed this has probably been all over the military. He is not a specialist and has worked every aspect of law as it pertains to the AF. His expertise on pharmesuiticals is probably shallow. He needs to defend that policy now against a team of civil attorneys who are experts in medical malpractice, civil liberties, pharmesuiticals, etc... He may win, there is a good chance he will. But ultimately it's up to a court to decide. Put another way, there is also a team of attorneys that have reviewed this, and they do believe the DoD should be concerned about losing. Edited December 9, 2021 by FLEA 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 6 hours ago, Prozac said: He’s smarter than the lawyers bro. He did his own “research” on the web. 😎 It's amazing how fast he moved from epidemiologist to chemical engineer to religious scholar to legal expert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockenspiel Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Pooter said: Actually, we've heard the reasons and they're hot garbage. So all that's left is to assume you're buying into the current political food fight and hanging your hat on whatever the reason of the day is. But go ahead and keep thinking you're some kind of edgy free thinker. You and *statistically speaking* about 100 million of the least educated people in the country. Who gets the “political” win? I don’t get it. Love the ad-hominem! That’s a trusty tool when you run out of empathy to have a real conversation. We are concerned about safety signals, the fda following the their own rules and the lack of transparency between big pharma and the end customer. So edgy! If everything is political, then the only truth is orthodoxy! God speed pooter- or is it fauci speed now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 14 hours ago, pawnman said: And putting up zero fuss about getting an annual flu shot. I mean, if the flu vaccine was really effective, we'd only need one as a kid, right? C'mon, Pawn, I know you're smarter than this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 9 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said: We have lawyers for that, and guess what, they reviewed the SECDEF and SECAF memos before they were released as well as the DAF memo today saying they would go forward with discharging the non-compliant. If they were concerned with losing in court to the “Pfizer isn’t Comirnaty” argument, they would have already updated the policy. Have you ever dealt with lawyers before? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M2 Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 4 minutes ago, glockenspiel said: Who gets the “political” win? I don’t get it. Love the ad-hominem! That’s a trusty tool when you run out of empathy to have a real conversation. We are concerned about safety signals, the fda following the their own rules and the lack of transparency between big pharma and the end customer. So edgy! If everything is political, then the only truth is orthodoxy! God speed pooter- or is it fauci speed now? Not everything political involves a "win," sometimes it's just about the fight. If you have any questions, go ask Nancy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 14 hours ago, Pooter said: It's blatantly political because each time the quoted "reason" for not getting the shot falls flat on its face, or becomes invalidated, the whole crowd migrates to a new reason. Now we're stuck on "EUA vs comirnaty" despite them being completely identical from a chemical, safety, and effectiveness perspective. The fact that people are hanging their hat on branding semantics and the specific wordings of military orders tells me their vaccine refusal is grounded completely in ideology. I would bet everything I own that the moment appropriately branded "comirnaty" shots become widely available, people will have magically found a new reason not to get it. And anecdotally, everyone I know refusing the shot were the annoying social media right wing political crusader "gubment can't tell me what to do" blowhard types before all of this started. But maybe you're right and they all suddenly found Jesus and/or became a FDA branding experts in the last few months purely by coincidence. As long as you also admit that the entire decision to mandate the vaccinations is equally political, I'll accept your premise. But if you think the mandates are somehow apolitical (justified using illogical reasons that don't hold up to reality) while those against the mandate are political (justifying their stance using illogical reasons that don't hold up to reality), then I'd say you are throwing some pretty big stones from a glass house. And with omicron, the mandates got even sillier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 9 hours ago, Prozac said: He’s smarter than the lawyers bro. He did his own “research” on the web. 😎 Tell me you've never been involved in a legal battle without telling me you've never been involved in a legal battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ratner Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 31 minutes ago, M2 said: C'mon, Pawn, I know you're smarter than this... Do you though? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waveshaper Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 Here's the latest: 'Airmen Have Five Days to Get Immunized After Vaccine Exemption Is Denied or They Face Punishment, Air Force Says | Military.com' 'So far, the service has approved 1,133 medical exemptions, 184 administrative exemptions, but no religious exemptions for its active-duty force of about 326,000, the service said Tuesday. About 4,756 active-duty airmen are awaiting decisions on religious exemptions requests'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrndPndr Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 I'm rubbing my deltoid already (sts): https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/585065-pfizer-ceo-says-fourth-vaccine-shot-may-eventually-be-needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGazmo Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 Here's the latest: 'Airmen Have Five Days to Get Immunized After Vaccine Exemption Is Denied or They Face Punishment, Air Force Says | Military.com' 'So far, the service has approved 1,133 medical exemptions, 184 administrative exemptions, but no religious exemptions for its active-duty force of about 326,000, the service said Tuesday. About 4,756 active-duty airmen are awaiting decisions on religious exemptions requests'. So should they remove that "Religious Freedom" CBT from MyLearning now or wait a bit? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGazmo Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 I'm rubbing my deltoid already (sts): https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/585065-pfizer-ceo-says-fourth-vaccine-shot-may-eventually-be-neededYGTBSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FUSEPLUG Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pawnman Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said: 3 hours ago, GrndPndr said: I'm rubbing my deltoid already (sts): https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/585065-pfizer-ceo-says-fourth-vaccine-shot-may-eventually-be-needed YGTBSM. I'm sticking with my "annual shot" prediction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGazmo Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 I'm sticking with my "annual shot" prediction.If Pfizer could only make something I could sprinkle on my Cheerios every morning... then maybe, just maybe we could beat this thing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Day Man Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said: If Pfizer could only make something I could sprinkle on my Cheerios every morning... then maybe, just maybe we could beat this thing. be careful bro...Cheerios have Tripotassium phosphate; thousands of people have died like 70 years after eating them Edited December 10, 2021 by Day Man 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockenspiel Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Day Man said: be careful bro...Cheerios have Tripotassium phosphate; thousands of people have died like 70 years after eating them Good analogy! Just like the seatbelt one! Seatbelts have been used by humans for decades, Cheerios have been eaten for decades and so have mRNA vaccines …. Oh wait. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sim Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 20 hours ago, GrndPndr said: https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/585065-pfizer-ceo-says-fourth-vaccine-shot-may-eventually-be-needed Israeli health official has warned that it will take at least 7 booster shots for people to be considered fully vaccinated.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGazmo Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 be careful bro...Cheerios have Tripotassium phosphate; thousands of people have died like 70 years after eating them But I will have low cholesterol when I die. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sua Sponte Posted December 10, 2021 Share Posted December 10, 2021 4 hours ago, Day Man said: be careful bro...Cheerios have Tripotassium phosphate; thousands of people have died like 70 years after eating them Yeah, but Cheerios are FDA approved… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts