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The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)


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14 hours ago, Guardian said:

I would rather kids learn there is a theory that everything was potentially created by a loving God and the science behind it

lol, I would love to see that "science"...

and if you're ok with teaching that "theory", what's wrong with teaching other theories? 

 

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14 hours ago, lloyd christmas said:

You are seeing the classic deny, deny, counter-accuse tactic used on this thread by some on the left.  They’ve denied CRT exists.  They’ve denied CRT is being taught in schools.   And they’ve followed up with a irrelevant creationism argument.  Teaching creationism or personal finance has absolutely nothing to do with CRT.  It’s all about the pivot when you know you can’t defend your side’s position. 

CRT is the next step in the process of demonizing straight white men.  It’s designed to create division and resentment for future generations.  I’ve said in previous comments that we’ve gone from Nazi’s to white supremacists to now the entire country and system is based on oppression and racism.  As some have pointed out, CRT isn’t about simply teaching history - the good and the bad.  It’s about creating a narrative that our country is fundamentally flawed and must be changed.  And it was exposed because of COVID.  Parents were able to listen to what their kids teachers were saying while on classroom zoom calls.  

I’m glad parents are standing up to this garbage.  I think we are going to see a lot more people pushing back, in many different arenas and over many different topics.  The progressive left is absolutely out of control.  This is all becoming an argument of right vs wrong or good vs evil and not just differing political views.  

https://dailycaller.com/2021/07/08/mark-green-critical-race-theory-air-force-academy-mark-milley/
 

Hopefully this isn’t just a PR stunt and they mean business.  The Air Force’s Marxist and racist teachings have congressional visibility and not in a good way.  Enough of this racist and hypocritical nonsense!!

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Posted (edited)

@lloyd christmas

-not on the left

-not trying to deny/deflect

-also agree critical race theory is trash

Just chill for a sec and you might realize im agreeing with you. And my proposing personal finance education was a dig at democrats because it would do way more to achieve their "equity" goals than CRT would.  You create upward mobility in society by teaching self-sufficiency rather than perpetual victimhood.

 

@dream big

As for creationism over CRT, I'm not sure what good teaching one brand of nonsense over another would accomplish. Especially because there are some pretty nasty implications that follow if you accept the premise that an omnipotent god created everything.  

Edited by Pooter
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23 minutes ago, Pooter said:

 

@dream big

As for creationism over CRT, I'm not sure what good teaching one brand of nonsense over another would accomplish. Especially because there are some pretty nasty implications that follow if you accept the premise that an omnipotent god created everything.  

We teach all kinds of nonsense currently (e.g. evolution, psychology is a science (we just call it a "soft" science), people are equal, etc.). The real nonsense is believing that the world was spontaneously formed by accident (out of stuff that magically happened to be around) and happened to fall together perfectly in the exact location in the universe where it could maintain stability. I saw an article a few years back where some top mathematicians did the analysis of probability of this occurring, and the number was a decimal followed by 40 zeros before the first nonzero digit. So it's definitely more intellectually honest and not nonsense to believe in a creator of some kind (even the made believe flying-spaghetti-monster is more intellectually honest than self initiated big bang ).

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6 hours ago, bfargin said:

We teach all kinds of nonsense currently (e.g. evolution, psychology is a science (we just call it a "soft" science), people are equal, etc.). The real nonsense is believing that the world was spontaneously formed by accident (out of stuff that magically happened to be around) and happened to fall together perfectly in the exact location in the universe where it could maintain stability. I saw an article a few years back where some top mathematicians did the analysis of probability of this occurring, and the number was a decimal followed by 40 zeros before the first nonzero digit. So it's definitely more intellectually honest and not nonsense to believe in a creator of some kind (even the made believe flying-spaghetti-monster is more intellectually honest than self initiated big bang ).

Even if you don't believe in the Big Bang...that's a separate issue from evolution, which has very robust evidence and a ton of real-world examples.

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6 hours ago, bfargin said:

We teach all kinds of nonsense currently (e.g. evolution, psychology is a science (we just call it a "soft" science), people are equal, etc.). The real nonsense is believing that the world was spontaneously formed by accident (out of stuff that magically happened to be around) and happened to fall together perfectly in the exact location in the universe where it could maintain stability. I saw an article a few years back where some top mathematicians did the analysis of probability of this occurring, and the number was a decimal followed by 40 zeros before the first nonzero digit. So it's definitely more intellectually honest and not nonsense to believe in a creator of some kind (even the made believe flying-spaghetti-monster is more intellectually honest than self initiated big bang ).

If time is infinite then it doesn’t matter the odds because at some point it could happen.  That opens up a whole list of other topics such as multi verses , simulations , etc.   But to say oh the odds are so low so there must be a creator is confirmation bias.  There are several ways it could have happened and the real answer most likely we can’t even fathom.  Humans can’t understand 1,000 years. Try understanding a billion.  Our brains are made for short term thoughts , ie a lifetime. 

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Is that why the age of the universe keeps increasing? Carbon dating can’t go back that far. Is it because science can’t explain the really really low probability number and just keeps increasing the age to justify making it possible?

Pretty sure the odds take into account age and the probability of it ever happening. Not just at any given point.

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41 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Even if you don't believe in the Big Bang...that's a separate issue from evolution, which has very robust evidence and a ton of real-world examples.

Biggest misconception out there. No evidence of fish becoming apes then humans. 
 

Fossil record simply doesn’t exist.

still the THEORY of evolution. 

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13 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Biggest misconception out there. No evidence of fish becoming apes then humans. 
 

Fossil record simply doesn’t exist.

still the THEORY of evolution. 

Your strawman path? Sure. Plenty of evidence for moths changing colors, wolves becoming dogs, fish adapting to fresh or salt water, bacteria and viruses adapting to new hosts...

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12 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Biggest misconception out there. No evidence of fish becoming apes then humans. 
 

Fossil record simply doesn’t exist.

still the THEORY of evolution. 

And yet, mountains of evidence more than their is for any story of creationism. 

 

Religious people do much better using a faith-based argument than a science-based one. And they really shouldn't push for teaching their religion in public school, because CRT is becoming the religion of the progressives. And it's got about the same level of scientific support.

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Your strawman path? Sure. Plenty of evidence for moths changing colors, wolves becoming dogs, fish adapting to fresh or salt water, bacteria and viruses adapting to new hosts...

Darwin even said in that his theory should be supported by the fossil record and that record should be plentiful. So far, not so much.
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And yet, mountains of evidence more than their is for any story of creationism. 
 
Religious people do much better using a faith-based argument than a science-based one. And they really shouldn't push for teaching their religion in public school, because CRT is becoming the religion of the progressives. And it's got about the same level of scientific support.

I usually agree with you. But I would guess you haven’t really studied or read on what it is creationism says and the evidence those who support it use to back it. CRT is in no way founded in science or truth.

Not advocating for creationism to be taught in schools. Just saying your claims on it need a little rethought because it isn’t baseless like CRT.

I don’t think anyone has advocated for creationism to be taught in schools in this thread . Just using a comparison saying that one isn’t violent or uprooting everything our country believes in but the other does and somehow is already being taught in parts or in whole in public school and it’s wrong and sick.
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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, Guardian said:


I usually agree with you. But I would guess you haven’t really studied or read on what it is creationism says and the evidence those who support it use to back it. CRT is in no way founded in science or truth.

Not advocating for creationism to be taught in schools. Just saying your claims on it need a little rethought because it isn’t baseless like CRT.

I don’t think anyone has advocated for creationism to be taught in schools in this thread . Just using a comparison saying that one isn’t violent or uprooting everything our country believes in but the other does and somehow is already being taught in parts or in whole in public school and it’s wrong and sick.

I completely agree with what you said (creationism is inoffensive compared to CRT), but then again, I wasn't responding to you.

 

However the claim that creationism has more scientific support than evolution is lunacy. And since the big bang was bought up as well, there's zero evidence for the seven day creation story, and a decent (though by no means conclusive) set of evidence for the big bang.

 

I'm familiar with the mental gymnastics some do to reconcile the literal word of the bible with science. And I'm quite happy to discuss/debate it if you want, but let's move it to a new thread. Creationism is almost entirely harmless historical storytelling (IMO). CRT is a terrible threat if it blossoms. Both are religion, and not all religions are equal.

Edited by Lord Ratner
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Yeah. I agree and don’t think anyone was saying evolution has less evidence than creationism. If you want a new thread feel free. I find that people are pretty set in their beliefs on this one and have to search things out themselves.

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

Your strawman path? Sure. Plenty of evidence for moths changing colors, wolves becoming dogs, fish adapting to fresh or salt water, bacteria and viruses adapting to new hosts...

That’s not what the theory of evolution is about. Nice try

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54 minutes ago, pawnman said:

No it doesn’t. 
 

The fossil record is incomplete. Of the small proportion of organisms preserved as fossils, only a tiny fraction have been recovered and studied by paleontologists”

 

there is no link via fossil record for evolution. Mutation sure but not species changing evolution

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If you want to do some on a study about why your opinion may be wrong or why that article isn’t complete you might check out a case for a Creator or Darwins black box. Both have interesting takes on the argument and aren’t based on religion.

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18 minutes ago, Guardian said:

If you want to do some on a study about why your opinion may be wrong or why that article isn’t complete you might check out a case for a Creator or Darwins black box. Both have interesting takes on the argument and aren’t based on religion.

I'll do that, you read "The Greatest Show on Earth" by Richard Dawkins. 

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My intent wasn't to start an evolution discussion but just to point out the hypocrisy of stating that creationism is totally faith nonsense when in fact both belief systems have tons of faith. Every "assumption" in science (e.g. the foundations of life/basic matter always existed, we evolved by chance...) is faith. I've had lengthy discussions about the origin of life with some of my professor colleagues in biology and chemistry here at school, and ultimately they have to concede there is indeed lots of faith in their worldview. I don't have enough faith to see what I see around me and conclude, there is no creator (ymmv).

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Pawnman you show your immaturity in debates by neg repping posts you don’t agree with. 
 

Has a very “I’m gonna take my ball and go home” feel to it. I find that a lot in evolution/climate change/CRT theory Pumpers. Carey on. 

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