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The WOKE Thread (Merged from WTF?)


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9 hours ago, uhhello said:

Unreal they didn't catch this sooner!  He also wants to cancel the Goldilocks and three bears story because "she broke into their house"

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Wokeness training is cancelled. Signed - POTUS.  https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/M-20-34.pdf   

Did anyone really believe he would get a fair trial or impartial jury?  Dude was good as guilty before the opening statements started.  He'd have been better off fleeing the country.     To

Back when I was active duty I used to have a similar perspective about police being overly-militarized. But then I went to the Guard, became a cop/detective, and the perspective changed. Its easy to l

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Yes, the standard correlation/causation refrain. It may not be proven that those qualities lead directly to being a good pilot, but it is well-established that smarts is associated with general well-being in life - not causal - but associated. In any case, I think someone would be hard-pressed to argue the opposite: that being unmotivated, stupid, and emotionally unstable would make good pilot candidates.


You're right in those three points, I'm not arguing the top level characteristics, and my post came off that way. The paper looked at how to measure the those characteristics. Cognitive ability was easy to measure and quantify objectively. Motivation and emotional stability were harder to measure and quantify objectively. Sure, there are traits that likely are likely important (how you handle stress and anxiety, being goal seeking/achievement driven), but outside of that, it gets fuzzy, and that's the point I was trying to make.

The paper also points out another issue: what is the definition of successful? Is it completing UPT? Is it being promoted to O-6 and beyond? Is it some tactical measure? Selection criteria) emphasis could change as you shift focus between different goals, even though the AF needs all 3 goals met for different reasons.


Regarding PPLs specifically, regardless of rich Johnny or poor Johnny, having a PPL (all else equal) shows motivation. It's a hurdle that has to be overcome regardless of "access to resources" and hence is a valid indicator.


I'll still argue that PPL doesn't (directly) matter, mainly because the flying time is still captured in the PCSM (which does predict performance in UPT). I'd be for PPL weighing into PCSM as a negative factor: have 80+ hours but no PPL? Maybe your flight hours should weigh less in your PCSM score since you're taking more time than average to obtain the PPL.

Also, should a PPL weigh more than a sport pilot license or recreational pilot license? Should more weight be given to instrument rating, or commercial pilot/ATP?

I guess what I'm getting at is that the PPL shouldn't just be a box check to show motivation. Otherwise, it's like having a box for the major promotion board for a master's degree: completing an AAD shows motivation, drive, and commitment, as well as increased knowledge, but is costly in terms of money and time. Having a masters degree *is* valuable to AF, but with the pace of deployments in the post 9/11 world, and doing more with less as we took cuts to personnel, the AF couldn't afford to keep the master's "requirement" at the O-4/O-5 level without impacting retention, so it got masked until the O-6 board (which shows that it's still valued). Not to mention the cottage industry that popped up happy to take government tuition assistance money to provide a not very meaningful check the box degree, undercutting why a master's was valuable in the first place.


How 'bout we clean up our own backyard first. Women have been at the zoo since 1976 - that's nearly 50 years. Why aren't 1/8 of fighter pilots women? It's because fighter pilots are not a random sample


There were outside forces restricting women from competing, regardless of their ability.
- By AF policy, females were not allowed to fly combat aircraft until 1993
- Women tend to be smaller than men, and many women just don't meet anthro standards (have to be above average in height/sitting height/reach/etc)
-- Medical waivers, including anthro waivers, used to be less much less prevalent
-- Most fighter aircraft were designed to fit the AF pilot population in the 60s (F-15, F-16) through 80s (F-22). Which again, was only male during that time period
-- The AF did not mandate requirements for anthro considerations in aircraft design accommodate women until 2020 (and to use more than just the historical population of AF female pilots, who again, were above average in height compared to the general population of women in the US).

So like men, women had to be above average not only in mental and cognitive abilities to compete to be a pilot. However, women also had to be above average in physical size as compared to other women because airplanes were designed to accommodate men due to legacy policies, which significantly shrinks the pool of women eligible to compete in the first place.

which gets to the most basic point underlying all of this - TPTB have determined that the make up of all institutions within society (at least the prestigious ones) need to perfectly reflect the make up of the broader society writ large. That's it. It's that simple. Any time there is divergence between a population and a sub-population it requires a fix from on high. But all these populations are not random samples - there is a great deal of self-selection occurring. Buckle up.


Here you and I agree. Don't think subpopulations (like pilots, or a subset of pilots like fighter pilots) have to match the greater US population distribution. But I do believe we should remove any barriers to entry that don't contribute to combat effectiveness.

Some of the issues go beyond the AF's scope, like K-12 education. That being said, the better education (particularly STEM, but I think physical education/fitness is also important and has fallen off to the wayside) that is provided across the board (rich/poor, majority/minority) increases the pool of people to select from for officer candidates, which increases the pool for pilot candidates. But that's a discussion for another day in another thread.

One other topic that might be interesting to look at is how personalities/attributes in different jets changed when we moved to an track select system, where fighter/bomber studs were identified much earlier in UPT than in a single track system.
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Maybe when it comes to combat capability we as a country can just not look at sex or ethnicity (whatever the hell that means these days) and try a meritocracy.  Which would mean just eliminating both from any application.

 

You're not doing anyone any favors if someone gets into a position they shouldn't be in due to race or sex.

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1 hour ago, billy pilgrim said:

Maybe when it comes to combat capability we as a country can just not look at sex or ethnicity (whatever the hell that means these days) and try a meritocracy.  Which would mean just eliminating both from any application.

You mean Martin Luther King’s actual dream? 

It honestly an embarrassment to his legacy where we are as a country right now with this whole social justice quest.  

 

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White Supremacy is the Root of All Race-related Violence in the US

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White supremacy is an ideology, a pattern of values and beliefs that are ingrained in nearly every system and institution in the U.S. It is a belief that to be white is to be human and invested with inalienable universal rights and that to be not-white means you are less than human – a disposable object for others to abuse and misuse.

Excellent, glad the science is settled on that.

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5 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

White Supremacy is the Root of All Race-related Violence in the US

Excellent, glad the science is settled on that.

You missed this gem:

 

"The point I’ve made through all of those experiences is that anti-Asian racism has the same source as anti-Black racism: white supremacy. So when a Black person attacks an Asian person, the encounter is fueled perhaps by racism, but very specifically by white supremacy. White supremacy does not require a white person to perpetuate it."

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You missed this gem:
 
"The point I’ve made through all of those experiences is that anti-Asian racism has the same source as anti-Black racism: white supremacy. So when a Black person attacks an Asian person, the encounter is fueled perhaps by racism, but very specifically by white supremacy. White supremacy does not require a white person to perpetuate it."

That was also phenomenal.
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12 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

You missed this gem:

 

"The point I’ve made through all of those experiences is that anti-Asian racism has the same source as anti-Black racism: white supremacy. So when a Black person attacks an Asian person, the encounter is fueled perhaps by racism, but very specifically by white supremacy. White supremacy does not require a white person to perpetuate it."

I think I slipped a mental disk or pulled a synapse trying to contort rationality to follow that twisted logic.  Unfortunately, there are too many people looking like, with the lack of critical gray matter to match,  bobble head dolls nodding in smiling agreement. 

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On 3/30/2021 at 2:13 PM, ClearedHot said:

Unreal they didn't catch this sooner!  He also wants to cancel the Goldilocks and three bears story because "she broke into their house"

These “diversity chiefs” and MEO types are the worst kind of people.  They are an infection to the military. I am sure the PRC has diversity chiefs in its’ higher echelons...It’s going to get worse before it ever gets better - that or we will go the way of the Romans. 

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On 4/8/2021 at 10:57 PM, Lord Ratner said:

You missed this gem:

 

"The point I’ve made through all of those experiences is that anti-Asian racism has the same source as anti-Black racism: white supremacy. So when a Black person attacks an Asian person, the encounter is fueled perhaps by racism, but very specifically by white supremacy. White supremacy does not require a white person to perpetuate it."

Honorable mention to the capitalization used for black and asian vs white.

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On 4/8/2021 at 2:25 PM, SurelySerious said:

White Supremacy is the Root of All Race-related Violence in the US

Excellent, glad the science is settled on that.

 

There is racism physically built into some of our highways."

Pete Buttigieg says there is ‘racism physically built into’ America’s ailing infrastructure system (yahoo.com)

 

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32 minutes ago, herkbum said:

This is getting ridiculous


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“getting”?  It’s been ridiculous for quite a while...it’s just more and more people are finally seeing it.  That being said, I’m actually looking forward to seeing how much more ridiculous it can get.  And I think we have a ways to go.

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40 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

“getting”?  It’s been ridiculous for quite a while...it’s just more and more people are finally seeing it.  That being said, I’m actually looking forward to seeing how much more ridiculous it can get.  And I think we have a ways to go.

CDC Director: 'Racism Is a Serious Public Health Threat' (yahoo.com)

 

“What we know is this: racism is a serious public health threat that directly affects the well-being of millions of Americans. As a result, it affects the health of our entire nation. Racism is not just the discrimination against one group based on the color of their skin or their race or ethnicity, but the structural barriers that impact racial and ethnic groups differently to influence where a person lives, where they work, where their children play, and where they worship and gather in community."

Is my thought that people should be responsible for their own well-being considered a "disease" by the CDC now? Maybe we should get the airlines and MLB to weigh in...

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2 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

CDC Director: 'Racism Is a Serious Public Health Threat' (yahoo.com)

 

“What we know is this: racism is a serious public health threat that directly affects the well-being of millions of Americans. As a result, it affects the health of our entire nation. Racism is not just the discrimination against one group based on the color of their skin or their race or ethnicity, but the structural barriers that impact racial and ethnic groups differently to influence where a person lives, where they work, where their children play, and where they worship and gather in community."

Is my thought that people should be responsible for their own well-being considered a "disease" by the CDC now? Maybe we should get the airlines and MLB to weigh in...

Can we prevent the spread by wearing masks?

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Got a diversity and inclusion survey in my inbox today.  Can't wait to tell the Air Force all about how difficult and unfair it is for women and minorities out there.. Oh wait, it seems I can't submit the survey because our computer networks are absolute hot garbage and it keeps crashing.

 

#priorities

146E73D0-B173-4336-8F18-B340039E2F34.jpeg

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On 4/11/2021 at 12:58 AM, dream big said:

These “diversity chiefs” and MEO types are the worst kind of people.  They are an infection to the military. I am sure the PRC has diversity chiefs in its’ higher echelons...It’s going to get worse before it ever gets better - that or we will go the way of the Romans. 

Yeah....they’re called political officers

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Policing has been discussed in this thread before so I’ll drop this here.  

Sounds like the female officer involved in yesterday’s shooting of Daunte Wright thought she was firing her taser but fired her weapon instead.  It is another incident involving someone with a warrant resisting arrest.  But it’s still a very tragic incident for sure.  This happened just a few miles from where George Floyd was killed.  This couldn’t have happened in a worse place.  It’s going to be an interesting night in Minnesota.

It has also been interesting to hear some of the defense’s arguments in the Floyd case.  There’s a camera angle that shows Chauvins knee on Floyd’s shoulder and admissions from Drs that describe how fentanyl/meth can cause asphyxiation.   Floyd was complaining about not being able to breathe before he was on the ground.  Reasonable doubt is the standard.  I don’t say this in support of Chauvin, I’m saying I’m not sure he is going to get a fair trial especially with what’s happened with the shooting yesterday.  That city can’t afford for Chauvin to walk.  Knowingly convicting potentially innocent people due to fear of a mob certainly isn’t the answer either.

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9 hours ago, Pooter said:

Got a diversity and inclusion survey in my inbox today.  Can't wait to tell the Air Force all about how difficult and unfair it is for women and minorities out there.. Oh wait, it seems I can't submit the survey because our computer networks are absolute hot garbage and it keeps crashing.

Why take time to fill out a survey when the results won’t matter?  Does anyone honestly think the GOs/SESs will change their current message/vector based on the responses/results of a survey?

 

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11 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Why take time to fill out a survey when the results won’t matter?  Does anyone honestly think the GOs/SESs will change their current message/vector based on the responses/results of a survey?

 

Agreed.  Has anyone ever filled out a GO initiated survey that mattered?  I spent an hour on the pilot retention survey years ago only to hear, 10 months later, AFPC had “lost” the survey results.  None of these are worth the time.  

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