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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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1 hour ago, war007afa said:

Lockdowns certainly increased the benefits of buying abroad and through the internet. China specializes in outsourcing goods and shipments. Can’t imagine how any sort of lockdowns (stifling local purchasing) would benefit the economic hegemony China enjoys…/s

Suggest anyone here who is interested in China’s recent rise and what it’s future holds watch the four part “China’s Reckoning” series on the Polymatter YouTube channel. China is facing serious issues, and while it’s meteoric rise to major world power status is concerning, it hardly enjoys economic hegemony on the world stage. 
 

 

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Very interesting in depth article  in a recent Vanity Fair (august..it has Dua Lipa in scanty duds on the cover)  ......(don't ax)...........Extensive discussion on the evidence that strongly supports an accidental release of -19 ...Ya gotta wade thru it but it's pretty convincing...There will be a test.    I never knew who Dua Lipa is....

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16 hours ago, Pooter said:

Then don't call it a "Chinese bioweapon." When you call it a bioweapon that implies a high level of intentionality both in the development and release of the virus.  Words mean things. If what you actually think is it was a lab accident then just say that and resist the temptation to get hyperbolic. 

 

It sounds like we actually agree on this, for what it's worth. 

I think we mostly agree: words mean things.  Chinese military scientists made a virus more transmissible & deadly.  That involves a high degree of intentionality as you say.  We helped fund it (naively thinking “gain of function” is something other than weaponization).  You might not like the nomenclature, but that is a bioweapon dude.  Whether those scientist meant it to be a weapon or not I don’t know, but surely you don’t think PLA involvement was altruistic?  That I think lab escape was accidental is irrelevant to my language.

The only way this conversation is productive is if we all assume the best intentions of each other.  It’s not hyperbole for me to label something a weapon when military scientists are intentionally increasing lethality.  But I understand why you are sensitive to potential hyperbole; emotion poisons logic.  If you want to call it something else that doesn’t bother me and I’d prefer to focus on areas we agree.

All that said, what do you think we can do to China to combat what they’ve done to our economy?  How can we fight back at something that has hurt us, and must be defended against, but does not look like the traditional war we have trained for?  These are the questions that can unite us.

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3 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

I think we mostly agree: words mean things.  Chinese military scientists made a virus more transmissible & deadly.  That involves a high degree of intentionality as you say.  We helped fund it (naively thinking “gain of function” is something other than weaponization).  You might not like the nomenclature, but that is a bioweapon dude.  Whether those scientist meant it to be a weapon or not I don’t know, but surely you don’t think PLA involvement was altruistic?  That I think lab escape was accidental is irrelevant to my language.

The only way this conversation is productive is if we all assume the best intentions of each other.  It’s not hyperbole for me to label something a weapon when military scientists are intentionally increasing lethality.  But I understand why you are sensitive to potential hyperbole; emotion poisons logic.  If you want to call it something else that doesn’t bother me and I’d prefer to focus on areas we agree.

All that said, what do you think we can do to China to combat what they’ve done to our economy?  How can we fight back at something that has hurt us, and must be defended against, but does not look like the traditional war we have trained for?  These are the questions that can unite us.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Don’t waste your time trying to make logical arguments with the likes of pooter / pawnman etc. If it doesn’t serve their political narrative then it’s invalid regardless of the data (the same goes for the foreverTRUMPERs just so we’re clear).

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24 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Don’t waste your time trying to make logical arguments with the likes of pooter / pawnman etc. If it doesn’t serve their political narrative then it’s invalid regardless of the data (the same goes for the foreverTRUMPERs just so we’re clear).

It's not about political narrative. It's about ending the pandemic. 

I don't understand how you can look at all the data available and conclude that the anti-vaxx argument is the logical one. 

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8 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I don't understand how you can look at all the data available and conclude that the anti-vaxx argument is the logical one

I don’t understand how you can look at all the data and conclude everyone needs to get the shot/getting the shot is “all that it takes” to end all this bullshit. But, I respect your difference in opinion though I may disagree, and will not try to force you or your family to align with my views. Maybe you should try doing the same towards others. 

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2 hours ago, brabus said:

I don’t understand how you can look at all the data and conclude everyone needs to get the shot/getting the shot is “all that it takes” to end all this bullshit. But, I respect your difference in opinion though I may disagree, and will not try to force you or your family to align with my views. Maybe you should try doing the same towards others. 

Do you feel the same about all public health measures? Or is it just the covid vaccines?

Edit to add: looks like that Russian propaganda is more effective than we thought.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anti-vax-movement-russian-trolls-fueled-anti-vaccination-debate-in-us-by-spreading-misinformation-twitter-study/

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3 hours ago, pawnman said:

It's not about political narrative. It's about ending the pandemic. 

I don't understand how you can look at all the data available and conclude that the anti-vaxx argument is the logical one. 

It's not just about ending the pandemic or not ending it. It's about protecting civil liberties as well, which a large amount of people are endanger of losing once we start establishing a precedent. Our constitutional checks and balances weren't written for the convenience of a peace time government, rather, they were delibertly put in there to protect individual freedoms in times of crises, as crises is most often the excuse politicians will use to erode them. 

I personally got the vaccine. But when people who are apprehensive to vaccines come to me about my experience, the only thing I can tell them is I didn't have side effects, and my wife possibly did. I can't tell them there are no long term side effects because we simply don't know that. Noone does. I can't tell them they will be 100% safe because I don't have the ability to guarantee that. I certainly can't tell then that getting vaccinated will means they won't have to wear a mask or get COVID tested anymore because frankly that's not true. So if those are their apprehensions to the vaccine, they are certainly entitled them as well as entitled to their freedom of bodily autonomy. 

But when people start pushing a narrative that we need to do this to end the pandemic and that means we need mandates, I will push back because 1.) I don't care, the pandemic can go for 100 years and I'll still stand on the side of individual liberty and 2.) Vaccination of individuals on its own will not end a pandemic. It may ease it in some cases but the only thing that ends a pandemic is viral eradication (extraordinarily hard) or waiting for the virus to mutate into an evolutionary strategy that is less fatal to humans. It will probably be a decade before either of those happen. Spanish flu took 10 years to mutate into what we know today as H1N1. 

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12 minutes ago, FLEA said:

It's not just about ending the pandemic or not ending it. It's about protecting civil liberties as well, which a large amount of people are endanger of losing once we start establishing a precedent. Our constitutional checks and balances weren't written for the convenience of a peace time government, rather, they were delibertly put in there to protect individual freedoms in times of crises, as crises is most often the excuse politicians will use to erode them. 

I personally got the vaccine. But when people who are apprehensive to vaccines come to me about my experience, the only thing I can tell them is I didn't have side effects, and my wife possibly did. I can't tell them there are no long term side effects because we simply don't know that. Noone does. I can't tell them they will be 100% safe because I don't have the ability to guarantee that. I certainly can't tell then that getting vaccinated will means they won't have to wear a mask or get COVID tested anymore because frankly that's not true. So if those are their apprehensions to the vaccine, they are certainly entitled them as well as entitled to their freedom of bodily autonomy. 

But when people start pushing a narrative that we need to do this to end the pandemic and that means we need mandates, I will push back because 1.) I don't care, the pandemic can go for 100 years and I'll still stand on the side of individual liberty and 2.) Vaccination of individuals on its own will not end a pandemic. It may ease it in some cases but the only thing that ends a pandemic is viral eradication (extraordinarily hard) or waiting for the virus to mutate into an evolutionary strategy that is less fatal to humans. It will probably be a decade before either of those happen. Spanish flu took 10 years to mutate into what we know today as H1N1. 

How did we eradicate polio?  Was it by letting people wring their hands about potential side effects, or by mandating vaccines for every man, woman, and child?

You want to be on the side of liberty, then great. Just realize choices have consequences. I'm 100% for keeping people out of certain jobs, restricting ability to travel to hot spots, mandating quarantine periods for travelers, etc based on vaccine status. Just like we currently do for a whole host of other vaccines.  We've got a whole lot of case law on the side of restrictions for unvaccinated people.

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How did we eradicate polio?  Was it by letting people wring their hands about potential side effects, or by mandating vaccines for every man, woman, and child?
You want to be on the side of liberty, then great. Just realize choices have consequences. I'm 100% for keeping people out of certain jobs, restricting ability to travel to hot spots, mandating quarantine periods for travelers, etc based on vaccine status. Just like we currently do for a whole host of other vaccines.  We've got a whole lot of case law on the side of restrictions for unvaccinated people.

Right…but Covid isn’t like polio behavior wise, it’s much more flu-like wrt the vaccine. Keep trying to eradicate Covid and you’ll be in Sydney style lockdown forever, vaccine or not.

You’ve already proven you have no regard for personal liberty. Still keeping that list of cadets who weren’t wearing masks so you can hold it against them later?
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36 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:


Right…but Covid isn’t like polio behavior wise, it’s much more flu-like wrt the vaccine. Keep trying to eradicate Covid and you’ll be in Sydney style lockdown forever, vaccine or not.

You’ve already proven you have no regard for personal liberty. Still keeping that list of cadets who weren’t wearing masks so you can hold it against them later?

Nah, the college enforces that for me. It also forced every faculty member and student to get vaccinated. 

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2 hours ago, pawnman said:

How did we eradicate polio?  Was it by letting people wring their hands about potential side effects, or by mandating vaccines for every man, woman, and child?

You want to be on the side of liberty, then great. Just realize choices have consequences. I'm 100% for keeping people out of certain jobs, restricting ability to travel to hot spots, mandating quarantine periods for travelers, etc based on vaccine status. Just like we currently do for a whole host of other vaccines.  We've got a whole lot of case law on the side of restrictions for unvaccinated people.

1. Sanitation practices into the 20th century helped tremendously with infection reduction. Vaccines were not the sole reason.

1a. The covid injection is not a vaccine.

2. Because something is “law” doesn’t make it just.

2a. The viewing of case law, such as Jacobson v. Massachusetts, at the time decreed by SCOTUS, has since changed in SCOTUS’ view. Case law evolves.

Our nation was founded by men who told the aristocratic robe and wig wearing courts to frig off. Courts are not infallible.

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6 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

1. Sanitation practices into the 20th century helped tremendously with infection reduction. Vaccines were not the sole reason.

1a. The covid injection is not a vaccine.

2. Because something is “law” doesn’t make it just.

2a. The viewing of case law, such as Jacobson v. Massachusetts, at the time decreed by SCOTUS, has since changed in SCOTUS’ view. Case law evolves.

Our nation was founded by men who told the aristocratic robe and wig wearing courts to frig off. Courts are not infallible.

Yeah, all sanitation, not vaccines. That's why we never see outbreaks of other disease among the unvaccinated...

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/29/us-measles-cases-climb-to-704-as-the-disease-spreads-among-unvaccinated-people.html

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Yeah, all sanitation, not vaccines. That's why we never see outbreaks of other disease among the unvaccinated...
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/29/us-measles-cases-climb-to-704-as-the-disease-spreads-among-unvaccinated-people.html

I disagree with you pawnman. I think vaccines have helped.

Unless you were being sarcastic in which case I wouldn’t agree with you because no one said they didn’t help. You’re not even stretching the truth of what 78 said. You are fabricating.

Stop the Cap
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10 minutes ago, Guardian said:


I disagree with you pawnman. I think vaccines have helped.

Unless you were being sarcastic in which case I wouldn’t agree with you because no one said they didn’t help. You’re not even stretching the truth of what 78 said. You are fabricating.

Stop the Cap

Sorry, I thought the sarcasm would have been obvious when I followed up with people getting measles in 2019...but it wouldn't be the first time I overestimated the intelligence of people in this thread.

 

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Sorry, I thought the sarcasm would have been obvious when I followed up with people getting measles in 2019...but it wouldn't be the first time I overestimated the intelligence of people in this thread.
 

Sarcasm was received with sarcasm of my own.

My point is you make points of taking people out of context and saying things they didn’t. It makes your other points which may be valid seem not worth paying attention to.

And then you end it with a underhanded dig. Also makes you less believable and not worthy of debating with.

Random question. Are you female? No reason. Just curious.
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17 minutes ago, Guardian said:


Sarcasm was received with sarcasm of my own.

My point is you make points of taking people out of context and saying things they didn’t. It makes your other points which may be valid seem not worth paying attention to.

And then you end it with a underhanded dig. Also makes you less believable and not worthy of debating with.

Random question. Are you female? No reason. Just curious.

Wow...telling me my "underhanded digs" make my points less valid, followed by insulting my masculinity. 

Talk about undermining your own points, asshole. 

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1 minute ago, pawnman said:

Wow...telling me my "underhanded digs" make my points less valid, followed by insulting my masculinity. 

Talk about undermining your own points, asshole. 

Seethe, cope, and dilate.

This image is the Assistant Secretary for Health for the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. A literal tranny. A human with male biology, claiming to be a female, attempting to mandate others to trust the federal government's "science", while telling you you're a bigot if you call him out that he's a man. This is the clown world you support.

tranny.jpeg

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On 8/7/2021 at 12:52 PM, Prozac said:

Suggest anyone here who is interested in China’s recent rise and what it’s future holds watch the four part “China’s Reckoning” series on the Polymatter YouTube channel. China is facing serious issues, and while it’s meteoric rise to major world power status is concerning, it hardly enjoys economic hegemony on the world stage. 
 

 

Now do the contemporary nation-state of Israel.

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2 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

Cringe and blue-pilled. Desk jokey cope.

Settle down, Alex, or we'll have to call the nurse to give you another sedative.

You're like my grandpa trying to use internet slang.

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