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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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17 minutes ago, lloyd christmas said:

This article doesn’t give death rates.  Most articles don’t….   So, I poked around the CDC website and looked at the number of daily deaths due to COVID.  In January there were days where upwards of 4000 deaths occurred.  We are currently seeing 100 to 400 per day across the country.  In the last 7 days the CDC website says 1999 people died due to COVID.  It also says the death rate per 100,000 is roughly half of a percent.  

I’m glad I’m a Texan and I’m glad Gov Abbott is standing firm against lockdowns.   

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
 

i like looking at this site. I don’t claim to research any of the numbers in depth, however the cases/deaths match, so I assume the recoveries do as well. The recoveries, the number you never see plastered all over the media. Also take a look at the closed cases as well as open cases. Of the 15.2 million active cases, 99.4% are mild and .6 severe, globally. Now I was following this site before the vaccines were released and in Jan. Mild cases were 99.6%

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35 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Oh, here you go. 

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/05/01/992148299/covid-doesnt-discriminate-by-age-serious-cases-on-the-rise-in-younger-adults

"Nationally, adults under 50 now account for the most hospitalized COVID-19 patients in the country — about 35% of all hospital admissions. Those age 50 to 64 account for the second-highest number of hospitalizations, or about 31%. Meanwhile, hospitalizations among adults over 65 have fallen significantly."

Still not statistically relevant. The innovation of the vaccine didn't change the risk young adults accepted. They are still accepting the same amount of risk. Correlation does not equal causation. The reason they make up the predominance of hospital admissions now is because the distribution of vaccines across the population scheme heavily favors the elderly. Nearly all adults over 50 are vaccinated, so with a 99% efficacy their admissions will drop. Younger adults admissions stayed the same but is now higher due to the older population dropping. 

 

Attached is one of the most important data sets you can follow right now which is the UK post a 70% vaccination distribution. Notice when they lifted restrictions in early summer there was a huge spike in cases and a corresponding rise in hospitalizations. However, the rise in hospitalizations isnt nearly as high as the peak of hospitalizations in mid-winter when the UK was experiencing a similar wave of cases. Despite similar case loads, less people went to the hospital. Why? Because the people that were getting COVID at that point were younger and had better resilience to combat COVID. You need to convince vaccine hesitant military members that they are in that small bubble in the bottom right, and the fact is the vast majority of military aren't in that sub-set. 

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2 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Still not statistically relevant. The innovation of the vaccine didn't change the risk young adults accepted. They are still accepting the same amount of risk. Correlation does not equal causation. The reason they make up the predominance of hospital admissions now is because the distribution of vaccines across the population scheme heavily favors the elderly. Nearly all adults over 50 are vaccinated, so with a 99% efficacy their admissions will drop. Younger adults admissions stayed the same but is now higher due to the older population dropping. 

 

Attached is one of the most important data sets you can follow right now which is the UK post a 70% vaccination distribution. Notice when they lifted restrictions in early summer there was a huge spike in cases and a corresponding rise in hospitalizations. However, the rise in hospitalizations isnt nearly as high as the peak of hospitalizations in mid-winter when the UK was experiencing a similar wave of cases. Despite similar case loads, less people went to the hospital. Why? Because the people that were getting COVID at that point were younger and had better resilience to combat COVID. You need to convince vaccine hesitant military members that they are in that small bubble in the bottom right, and the fact is the vast majority of military aren't in that sub-set. 

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I don't have to convince the military anything. It's about to be mandatory. 

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26 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I don't have to convince the military anything. It's about to be mandatory. 

Fair enough. But I'm simply addressing the assertion made earlier that vaccine-hesitant people should get the shot now to protect themselves. The shot isn't protecting them. The government will order them to get it to benefit other people. As long as we all understand that this is mainly what's happening I don't care. But lets not stand on false moral podiums that they are benefiting from this. You have no way to ascertain that and neither does anyone except those individuals. Everyone is granted a right to bodily autonomy and we are choosing to violate that for military members because our elected officials, and maybe society, believes they don't deserve that right in favor of other priorities. 

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2 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Fair enough. But I'm simply addressing the assertion made earlier that vaccine-hesitant people should get the shot now to protect themselves. The shot isn't protecting them. The government will order them to get it to benefit other people. As long as we all understand that this is mainly what's happening I don't care. But lets not stand on false moral podiums that they are benefiting from this. You have no way to ascertain that and neither does anyone except those individuals. Everyone is granted a right to bodily autonomy and we are choosing to violate that for military members because our elected officials, and maybe society, believes they don't deserve that right in favor of priorities. 

But they are protecting themselves.  They have a lower mortality rate than elderly, but not zero. And the mortality rate from covid among the younger crowd is WAY higher than the mortality rate of the vaccines. 

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1 minute ago, pawnman said:

But they are protecting themselves.  They have a lower mortality rate than elderly, but not zero. And the mortality rate from covid among the younger crowd is WAY higher than the mortality rate of the vaccines. 

Yes but you are talking in such low probabilities right now its insignificant. Seriously, if you really cared about probabilities this low, you would be telling your Airman not to drive to work every day. Accidents still remains the #1 cause of death of young adults, pandemic or not. 

Furthermore, you are making an assertion that you know what is best for them and their lives. That's a very dangerous line of thinking. 

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1 minute ago, pawnman said:

But they are protecting themselves.  They have a lower mortality rate than elderly, but not zero. And the mortality rate from covid among the younger crowd is WAY higher than the mortality rate of the vaccines. 

Let’s not kid ourselves thinking that the government has EITHER the risk to individual or the risk to people outside the military in mind. (though! this is a fantastic PR line we should 100% adopt… “US Air Force, taking shots to keep you safe [clip of loading missiles, clip of AMRAAM leaving the rail, clip of drone spear, clip of 80% of some nonner’s work day getting a 15 second shot]…. 
The risk we’re avoiding by making vaccination mandatory is risk to the unit’s ability to operate world-wide outside a “break glass, COVID-positive superpower coming through” scenario. As long as COVID is the dominant issue in a region, our ability to operate is degraded for as long as we allow individual choice on the matter. 

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50 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I don't have to convince the military anything. It's about to be mandatory. 

So what’s your argument for using government violence on our own people against their consent to force an injection (one that according to new research/CDC admissions, doesn’t work). Muh “It’s mandatory; the Crown said so!” isn’t an argument.

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13 minutes ago, jice said:

Let’s not kid ourselves thinking that the government has EITHER the risk to individual or the risk to people outside the military in mind. (though! this is a fantastic PR line we should 100% adopt… “US Air Force, taking shots to keep you safe [clip of loading missiles, clip of AMRAAM leaving the rail, clip of drone spear, clip of 80% of some nonner’s work day getting a 15 second shot]…. 
The risk we’re avoiding by making vaccination mandatory is risk to the unit’s ability to operate world-wide outside a “break glass, COVID-positive superpower coming through” scenario. As long as COVID is the dominant issue in a region, our ability to operate is degraded for as long as we allow individual choice on the matter. 

Destroy individual choice of one’s own body because of a virus 99.9% of people recover from? Where was the Federal government’s concern about unit readiness when the U.S. won the high score for childhood obesity, thus a major reason for poor recruitment?

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Just now, dogfish78 said:

Destroy individual choice of one’s own body because of a virus 99.9% of people recover from? Where was the Federal government’s concern about unit readiness when the U.S. won the high score for childhood obesity, thus a major reason for poor recruitment?

Well… if the people in the military were obese children, I imagine we’d have been giving them lawful orders to lose weight and age. 

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12 minutes ago, jice said:

Well… if the people in the military were obese children, I imagine we’d have been giving them lawful orders to lose weight and age. 

You avoided my question and instead attacked my statement of the Federal government’s hypocrisy that has been displayed through its track record.

If the people in the military were actually at risk, there would’ve been massive death numbers over the past year, but there hasn’t been. It’s been a 99.9% survival rate and you know that. What other rights would you so easily give up if you’re willing to force other humans to be subjected to experimental science juice. Heads up, Pfizer expects $33,000,000,000 in profits this year from the injection.

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52 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

So what’s your argument for using government violence on our own people against their consent to force an injection (one that according to new research/CDC admissions, doesn’t work). Muh “It’s mandatory; the Crown said so!” isn’t an argument.

Government violence? its a shot, not waterboarding. I know needles are big and scary and everything, but maybe if you're really good and don't throw a tantrum, the nice A1C will let you pick out a lollypop after she jabs you. 

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3 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Government violence? its a shot, not waterboarding. I know needles are big and scary and everything, but maybe if you're really good and don't throw a tantrum, the nice A1C will let you pick out a lollypop after she jabs you. 

Non-consensual intrusion into a human being’s body. Yes that’s violence. Did you fall asleep during that part of training? Your ad hominem tells me you have no valid argument to counter what I wrote. Sad.

You think I have an issue with needles. I don’t. The issue is the experimental science juice which the lockstep institutions shill for people to be forced to take, yet those same institutions run and hide when asked about long-term effects or when confronted with data of acute affects such as death or permanent disability.

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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Yes but you are talking in such low probabilities right now its insignificant. Seriously, if you really cared about probabilities this low, you would be telling your Airman not to drive to work every day. Accidents still remains the #1 cause of death of young adults, pandemic or not. 

Furthermore, you are making an assertion that you know what is best for them and their lives. That's a very dangerous line of thinking. 

Yeah...only about 40,000 people die in car accidents a year. That's why I never wear a seatbelt... the odds I'll die in a car crash are so low, why risk seatbelt injuries?

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1 hour ago, dogfish78 said:

So what’s your argument for using government violence on our own people against their consent to force an injection (one that according to new research/CDC admissions, doesn’t work). Muh “It’s mandatory; the Crown said so!” isn’t an argument.

Same as the reason I think the government can mandate DUI laws, require airbags in vehicles, require drivers to wear seatbelts... the primary job of a government is to protect its citizens. 

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3 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

Non-consensual intrusion into a human being’s body. Yes that’s violence. Did you fall asleep during that part of training? Your ad hominem tells me you have no valid argument to counter what I wrote. Sad.

You think I have an issue with needles. I don’t. The issue is the experimental science juice which the lockstep institutions shill for people to be forced to take, yet those same institutions run and hide when asked about long-term effects or when confronted with data of acute affects such as death or permanent disability.

Did you pitch the same fit about the rest of the vaccines the DoD required you to have? 

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21 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Did you pitch the same fit about the rest of the vaccines the DoD required you to have? 

Cope.

Why do you still pretend these SARS-CoV-2 immunizations are anything like the immunizations which have been trialed and in use for decades? You classify my grievance of the DoD for doing something heinous (forcing injections) as a “fit”. I wonder what other criticisms of unjust violence upon humans you would classify as a “fit”.

The covid immunizations using mRNA technology, which are a genetic editing drug, killed all animals during trial. The human trials were rushed and not in accordance with standard FDA regulation. A chief scientist of Pfizer spoke out against the rushed administration of the drug with unknown long-term effects. The co-inventor of the mRNA technology spoke out against it as well.

Even in the Johnson&Johnson covid immunization which is an adenovirus immunization not using the mRNA technology, women are experiencing blood clotting and pain in their ovaries.

Irregardless of the unknown effects of these drugs (which we must assume is bad until proven otherwise, logically), the foundational issue is still personal choice if one wants an injection or not. Maybe you should re-read the oath you took.

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1 minute ago, dogfish78 said:

Cope.

Why do you still pretend these SARS-CoV-2 immunizations are anything like the immunizations which have been trialed and in use for decades? You classify my grievance of the DoD for doing something heinous (forcing injections) as a “fit”. I wonder what other criticisms of unjust violence upon humans you would classify as a “fit”.

The covid immunizations using mRNA technology, which are a genetic editing drug, killed all animals during trial. The human trials were rushed and not in accordance with standard FDA regulation. A chief scientist of Pfizer spoke out against the rushed administration of the drug with unknown long-term effects. The co-inventor of the mRNA technology spoke out against it as well.

Even in the Johnson&Johnson covid immunization which is an adenovirus immunization not using the mRNA technology, women are experiencing blood clotting and pain in their ovaries.

Irregardless of the unknown effects of these drugs (which we must assume is bad until proven otherwise, logically), the foundational issue is still personal choice if one wants an injection or not. Maybe you should re-read the oath you took.

Copy...no fit over the other vaccines.

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30 minutes ago, pawnman said:

 the primary job of a government is to protect its citizens. 

This is the fundamental disconnect.  Some agree with you.  Some think the primary purpose of government is protect its citizens rights.

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This is the fundamental disconnect.  Some agree with you.  Some think the primary purpose of government is protect its citizens rights.


...and others think the government’s purpose is to protect its interests.

Which is why I think it’s interesting that people think that a government that’s looking out for its own best interests would knowingly risk the readiness of their standing army if they knew the vaccine was flawed or harmful in some way.

But...we did put people on boats to stare at nuclear explosions 70 years ago so what do I know.

BTW, I got both shots, I feel fine.
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1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Government violence? its a shot, not waterboarding. I know needles are big and scary and everything, but maybe if you're really good and don't throw a tantrum, the nice A1C will let you pick out a lollypop after she jabs you. 

Good lord.  Currently the Australian military is patrolling the streets like some dystopian movie to ensure citizens don't leave their homes, and here you are making snarky remarks like that.

Millions of people have genuine doubts and concerns about this vaccination, as well as everything they've been told about this virus by the government.  My entire family has been vaccinated, but I fully understand why some people have elected to avoid the jab.  They have very valid concerns, and a government that changes the playbook every week is not helping.

 

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Same as the reason I think the government can mandate DUI laws, require airbags in vehicles, require drivers to wear seatbelts... the primary job of a government is to protect its citizens. 

False equivalence. Those laws don’t intrude into a human being’s bloodstream through governmental violence. Notwithstanding the acute and long-term effects. In addition, those various laws you mentioned are state laws, which went through a legislative process in our republic form of government. Not issued through the decree of bureaucrats, such as the CDC. See: tyranny. Again, what are the long-term effects? Can I file a lawsuit against the manufacturers if I’m harmed (If not killed before then)? The answers is no, because the Federal government gave them legal immunity in 1986.

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Same as the reason I think the government can mandate DUI laws, require airbags in vehicles, require drivers to wear seatbelts... the primary job of a government is to protect its citizens. 

I think revisiting the Constitution and Bill of Rights is worth a look. I’m no constitutional lawyer but it seems our government was founded on protecting citizens from the government. To your examples vs a vaccine, driving is a privilege not a right. (Or at least that is what the government aka the people have decided). To retain that privilege certain requirements must be met. As far as requiring the general public to get a experimental  vaccine (forcing someone to put a foreign substance in their body) that has no long term health data, and possible long term health side effects, I would say fundamentally goes against “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” which can be found in our Declaration of Independence. 
 

As far as the military is concerned, once you sign the paperwork  you are kind of fucked. They can order you to die in combat, they can order you to get a vaccine. 

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21 minutes ago, viper154 said:

I think revisiting the Constitution and Bill of Rights is worth a look. I’m no constitutional lawyer but it seems our government was founded on protecting citizens from the government. To your examples vs a vaccine, driving is a privilege not a right. (Or at least that is what the government aka the people have decided). To retain that privilege certain requirements must be met. As far as requiring the general public to get a experimental  vaccine (forcing someone to put a foreign substance in their body) that has no long term health data, and possible long term health side effects, I would say fundamentally goes against “life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness” which can be found in our Declaration of Independence. 
 

As far as the military is concerned, once you sign the paperwork  you are kind of fucked. They can order you to die in combat, they can order you to get a vaccine. 

So reaching into things that are rights...do you support background checks on gun sales? ID laws for voting? Selective service?  Restricting immigration? 

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32 minutes ago, dogfish78 said:

False equivalence. Those laws don’t intrude into a human being’s bloodstream through governmental violence. Notwithstanding the acute and long-term effects. In addition, those various laws you mentioned are state laws, which went through a legislative process in our republic form of government. Not issued through the decree of bureaucrats, such as the CDC. See: tyranny. Again, what are the long-term effects? Can I file a lawsuit against the manufacturers if I’m harmed (If not killed before then)? The answers is no, because the Federal government gave them legal immunity in 1986.

There are already laws for mandatory vaccination. 

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