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Back on topic, COVID shot#2 complete after having COVID over Christmas. Typical symptoms of fever, fatigue, headache, etc, which I also had on shot #1 as well. Made for a crummy few days.

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These horror stories of police arresting people on the beach or dragging people out of church are way overblown.  The media is going to over-report anything that will get views and outrage--similar to

The Crozier situation has sparked many illuminating conversations up and down the chain.  No, we don’t know all details but the core issues ring true to anyone who has experienced mid-level authority

You went from making a reasonable point to saying religious people should all get together and give themselves coronovirus because they’re stupid.  Not sure why or how you made this leap, but maybe yo

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That’s great news. What’s also interesting is while suicides fell 6%, gun sales increased 85%.

Anti-gun crowd trying to explain how people only killed themselves because guns exist...796CB998-C132-4526-9401-3D295321C42F.thumb.jpeg.5d0f0946b1c30c584d337e5ef6f5339c.jpeg

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9 hours ago, Waves said:

Interesting theory behind if though. The article isn't saying that lockdown has prevented suicides but that a limited phenomena has staved them off. While the US will likely resume a normal life sometime this year, it is begging to look like Europe is going increasingly interested in waiting until next summer. (2022) 

I would be interested to compare their statistics as their lockdown continues to get harsher and longer. 

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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Interesting theory behind if though. The article isn't saying that lockdown has prevented suicides but that a limited phenomena has staved them off. While the US will likely resume a normal life sometime this year, it is begging to look like Europe is going increasingly interested in waiting until next summer. (2022) 

I would be interested to compare their statistics as their lockdown continues to get harsher and longer. 

We had a colleague come to the US from our Netherlands office last week.  They are where we were last May.  You can get takeout but bars, restaurants, shopping closed.  There is a curfew in place at night.  He said he can't even meet at a soccer field to kick a ball around with friends.  Must be under 25 to do that.  Parks are closed.

THere are protest over these lockdowns in every country, we just dont see it covered in the news.  He said if it goes into the summer with warmer months mass rioting will take place.  People dont trust the vaccine there so a lot of resistance against it.

All seems pretty sad.

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1 hour ago, ecugringo said:

We had a colleague come to the US from our Netherlands office last week.  They are where we were last May.  You can get takeout but bars, restaurants, shopping closed.  There is a curfew in place at night.  He said he can't even meet at a soccer field to kick a ball around with friends.  Must be under 25 to do that.  Parks are closed.

THere are protest over these lockdowns in every country, we just dont see it covered in the news.  He said if it goes into the summer with warmer months mass rioting will take place.  People dont trust the vaccine there so a lot of resistance against it.

All seems pretty sad.

Yup. I travel the NL, Belgium and Germany routinely, and essentially the lockdown posture has never altered from when the pandemic first started. It has "eased" for a few weeks at a time here and there but for the most part personal liberties have been non existent. It is REALLY starting to wear on people here. A group of us just got back from the US and were shocked to see it was like a pandemic wasn't even happening. People wore mask but we were largely free to go shopping, eat at restaurants or go to events.

Meanwhile, Europe has completely bungled its vaccination plans and so their cases continue to rise. Add on top of that Germany and France's stiff opposition to anything resembling a "vaccine passport" and it really doesn't matter anyway. Its quite clear with Germany leading the EU on this endeavor, that Europe doesn't intend to exit lockdown until 2022 at the earliest. 

And yes, there are major protest over the lockdowns here. The NL and Belgium have seen quite a few. In Germany the police often break them up. No true freedom of assembly there. 

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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Yup. I travel the NL, Belgium and Germany routinely, and essentially the lockdown posture has never altered from when the pandemic first started. It has "eased" for a few weeks at a time here and there but for the most part personal liberties have been non existent. It is REALLY starting to wear on people here. A group of us just got back from the US and were shocked to see it was like a pandemic wasn't even happening. People wore mask but we were largely free to go shopping, eat at restaurants or go to events.

Meanwhile, Europe has completely bungled its vaccination plans and so their cases continue to rise. Add on top of that Germany and France's stiff opposition to anything resembling a "vaccine passport" and it really doesn't matter anyway. Its quite clear with Germany leading the EU on this endeavor, that Europe doesn't intend to exit lockdown until 2022 at the earliest. 

And yes, there are major protest over the lockdowns here. The NL and Belgium have seen quite a few. In Germany the police often break them up. No true freedom of assembly there. 

Just had a call with our Canadian office.  Canada is shutting down again.

 

Read an article last night how Russia was trying to take advantage of the situation in the EU and push the Sputnik vaccine.  Not sure how true this is but interesting.

Also have a buddy in Malaysia that handles the Asia-Pac region for my company.  No vaccines yet, unknown when it will happen.

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2 hours ago, ecugringo said:

Just had a call with our Canadian office.  Canada is shutting down again.

 

Read an article last night how Russia was trying to take advantage of the situation in the EU and push the Sputnik vaccine.  Not sure how true this is but interesting.

Also have a buddy in Malaysia that handles the Asia-Pac region for my company.  No vaccines yet, unknown when it will happen.

It's true. Germany is in talks to acquire Sputnik by early Summer. 

 

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Got the J&J shot yesterday.
 

Nothing crazy happened. Arm feels the same as getting a flu shot and no other response other than maybe a little extra tired last night. 

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1st Pfizer shot down.  Arm is a little sore, no other effects.  

Dreaming that Bill Gates is the president is totally normal, right?

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Carlson on vaccine questions

I understand Tucker Carlson is a commentator who thrives on controversy.  I’m not linking this because of an affinity for him, but rather he’s the only one discussing a topic I can’t get a straight answer on: does the vaccine work?  If so, why no alleviating restrictions for vaccinated?  If not, why the massive guilt campaign to compel vaccination?  

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7 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

.... J&J stopped. Whoops. 

Over 6 people in millions.

We'd halt all airline travel if we applied the same safety standards. 

 

Screenshot_20210414-161659_Instagram.jpg

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1-2 per a million is a small enough sample size to be statistically insignificant. Given the sample sizes for the testing it is unlikely they would have caught it even if it wasn't EUA.

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29 minutes ago, Breckey said:

1-2 per a million is a small enough sample size to be statistically insignificant.

Agreed.  Which leaves only two possibilities: either Fauci/CDC are absurdly risk adverse (further casting doubt on their judgement) or they are not letting us see the real numbers (demonstrating themselves untrustworthy).  There’s no good outcome for the “experts” here.

I am curious if the same standard applied to C19 deaths is being applied to C19 adverse vaccine reactions. 
 

ETA: speaking of statistically insignificant numbers driving illogical policy changes... the drive against “assault weapons” is mathematically analogous.

Edited by tac airlifter
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Funny how fauci ignores other statistics and refuses any sound risk management decisions such as eating in a fucking restaurant AFTER fully vaccinated. 
 

CDC/fauci have zero credibility 

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4 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

I love the BB!

What is your threshold of a serious adverse events? 
 

And is there precedent for holding the drug companies responsible for said events with EUA drugs? — I’ll answer that one, No. 

I don't know if I could give you an exact number for my threshold...but it's definitely above the number that halted the J&J and AstraZeneca vaccines.

As an entering argument, I'd say if the vaccine has an adverse reaction rate lower than the fatality rate of the disease it protects against, that's probably a net win.

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10 hours ago, pawnman said:

As an entering argument, I'd say if the vaccine has an adverse reaction rate lower than the fatality rate of the disease it protects against, that's probably a net win.

100% disagree. Let's just say .25% of people who caught covid died, so 25 out of 10,000 which I think is much higher than the actual fatality rate. Most of those are older people and people who have health issues, many of which were self-caused due to a variety of reasons. 

So you feel it would be better to have .24%, or 24 out of 10,000 to have adverse reactions to a vaccine they very likely don't even need, potentially causing harm to those young, healthy adults and children?

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1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

100% disagree. Let's just say .25% of people who caught covid died, so 25 out of 10,000 which I think is much higher than the actual fatality rate. Most of those are older people and people who have health issues, many of which were self-caused due to a variety of reasons. 

So you feel it would be better to have .24%, or 24 out of 10,000 to have adverse reactions to a vaccine they very likely don't even need, potentially causing harm to those young, healthy adults and children?

A better system is to approximate years of life saved. The average age of people dieing from COVID is only a year and a half less than the average life expectancy in the US. Hence you can estimate 10 COVID deaths cost about 15 years of life/productivity in society. 

If a vaccine causes a 30 year old to develop blood clots and die, that cost just over 45 years of life and useful contributions that person would have made to society. 3X more than the  ten COVID deaths. Hence, bar napkin math'ing here, the vaccine needs to be at least 30X safer than the disease. 

That's the utilitarian moral argument. There are others as well: for example, many would say because older people have already made a great contribution to society, we owe it to them to make sacrifices and protect them. The nuanced question here is who's life has more value?

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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

The nuanced question here is who's life has more value?

It seems like the answer for most Americans when it comes to all COVID decisions is “my families and mine”.

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