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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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18 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Given that Harvard helped facilitate grant money for viral research in Wuhan, please forgive me if I’m unconvinced at their authority and judgement on this subject.  Were these the experts who said wearing a mask was useless, or the ones who recommended criminal penalties for not wearing one?

If a potential Harvard conflict of interest or lack of credibility is worrying you, I can find other sources on whether gathering in large groups indoors during a pandemic is a good idea.  Want to take a guess at what they say?

20 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Out of curiosity, am I more likely to catch the rona at a mosque or standing in line to buy rum tonight?  Because one is allowed but the other isn’t, and the logical inconsistency is confusing.  

The mosque. Or church. Or synagogue.  Hands down.. unless people at your local liquor store spontaneously break into song in close proximity to one another,  dunk each other into pools of water, and then share the same snack with hundreds of their closest friends.

27 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

And just to go full Godwins Law... Expert medical advice in 1939 was that Jews should be herded into ghettos for “public health.”  But let’s all laugh at history and play funny videos of retreaded internet preachers, we’ve evolved past government abuses nowadays! 

If you want to talk about history, it is absolutely full of the church being at odds with science.. and ending up wrong.  We certainly haven't evolved past government abuses, but apparently we've also not evolved past religions' blatant disregard for medical advice.  

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42 minutes ago, Pooter said:

  We certainly haven't evolved past government abuses, but apparently we've also not evolved past religions' blatant disregard for medical advice.  

Agreed.  In fact, I don’t think we evolved at all, and am pleasantly surprised to know you share church orthodoxy on the subject of evolution rather than the “settled science” view.

😬

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16 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Agreed.  In fact, I don’t think we evolved at all, and am pleasantly surprised to know you share church orthodoxy on the subject of evolution rather than the “settled science” view.

😬

Ruh Roh

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8 hours ago, Pooter said:

Full disclosure: If it wasn't possible for church goers to infect others, I'd be all for them voluntarily gathering in the largest groups possible.  Disregarding public health guidance to worship your imaginary man in the sky is a beautiful example of both constitutional rights and natural selection

You went from making a reasonable point to saying religious people should all get together and give themselves coronovirus because they’re stupid.  Not sure why or how you made this leap, but maybe you could try to bury your religious bigotry while you’re making your point. 

Edited by Homestar
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On 4/17/2020 at 12:57 PM, Pooter said:

Sorry but the F'd up situation is when we have churches convincing their congregations that it's safe to come in person despite all medical guidance pointing to the contrary.  

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/04/02/texas-churches-coronavirus-stay-open/

Harvard University epidemiologist Bill Hanage ticked off examples of virus transmission in houses of worship in London, South Korea, Singapore and the state of Georgia and said exempting religious services from shelter-in-place orders is “an incredibly bad idea.”

 

Also it has never been easier to live stream a worship service to the internet for all to see.  This isn't the old days where you have to be a megachurch with tv or radio broadcast infrastructure.  You need a cell phone and a youtube account.  

That is a weak deflection.  The topic is government overreach and the violation of constitutional protections based on "emergency needs," not the wisdom or foolishness of being religious.  We can see your opinion on the latter by your condescending posts, but you are using your opinion against religious groups to mask the issue of the government violating numerous civil rights in an inconsistent and (sometimes) non-medically relevant manner (banning socially-distanced activities or "gatherings" of people who already live together, etc).

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Indeed.

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Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

https://lawandcrime.com/covid-19-pandemic/new-jersey-woman-kim-pagan-charged-for-organizing-protest-against-covid-19-stay-at-home-orders/

 

Quote

Pagan was charged by New Jersey State Police with violating Murphy’s Coronavirus-inspired emergency order “by organizing a prohibited event” near the statehouse and elsewhere in the capital city in which “protesters gathered” in order “to demonstrate against the Governor’s Executive Orders,” according to authorities.

 

Even a state school grad can see this one doesn't pass the test...

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Here’s my question for the day reference where medical advice is trending:

What data scenario would allow us to end these lockdowns?

Data shows very low infection or death rate? Keep them in place.

Data shows much higher infection or death rate? Keep them in place.

Data shows we shacked the infection/death rate? Keep them in place.

This is like the public health version of the GWOT/ drugs/ poverty. We will be forever turning the corner!

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50 minutes ago, JBueno said:

Here’s my question for the day reference where medical advice is trending:

What data scenario would allow us to end these lockdowns?

Data shows very low infection or death rate? Keep them in place.

Data shows much higher infection or death rate? Keep them in place.

Data shows we shacked the infection/death rate? Keep them in place.

This is like the public health version of the GWOT/ drugs/ poverty. We will be forever turning the corner!

 

On 4/15/2020 at 5:59 PM, nsplayr said:

Ed Yong has done some fantastic writing over at The Atlantic about the, “What next?” question. I recommend both of these pieces.

Start here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/

Latest here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/04/pandemic-summer-coronavirus-reopening-back-normal/609940/

 

 

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3 hours ago, brickhistory said:

Even a state school grad can see this one doesn't pass the test...

The days you seek are long gone, and now there is little political cost to enacting measures that later may or may not get struck down in court.  It's Gretzky's Law...you miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

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On the Information Front:    China falsely telling Arab world U.S. behind coronavirus

They're still pushing the bullshit that the International Military Games and the visitors to China were the source of it, no.  If the US, doesn't push back as hard as hell this crap will take root in the developing world and they get off scot free for royally screwing over the world 

 

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On 4/17/2020 at 7:28 PM, Homestar said:

You went from making a reasonable point to saying religious people should all get together and give themselves coronovirus because they’re stupid.  Not sure why or how you made this leap, but maybe you could try to bury your religious bigotry while you’re making your point. 

No, I said they should be allowed to do that if they want to. On the condition it wouldn't affect other people. It's not religious bigotry. I'll say the same about the throngs of Florida beach goers yesterday, people who throw coronavirus parties, and anyone else who chooses to congregate in large groups during a pandemic.  
 

Doing things that increase your probability of death, or an inability to adapt (behaviors in this case) are the drivers of natural selection.  I'm sorry that offends some people.

 

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This is from my own social media and is written by a friend’s girlfriend who is a nurse. She wants all protesters to not only be arrested for protesting but also be prohibited from receiving medical care. 
 

Yikes was my only reaction. Pretty scary thoughts running through the heads of normal citizens in this country right now. 
 

A2D0CF7F-959C-45B6-A58F-BE42957ADF1A.thumb.jpeg.340331d338cec7c43a5e2482ffe56005.jpeg

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On 4/17/2020 at 7:32 PM, Pooter said:

Ruh Roh

 

4 hours ago, Pooterbilbo said:

Doing things that increase your probability of death, or an inability to adapt (behaviors in this case) are the drivers of natural selection.  I'm sorry that offends some people.

Why are you using two accounts?

Why are you in the military? Why are you a pilot?

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3 hours ago, torqued said:

Why are you using two accounts?

ADMIN NOTE:  The IP addresses for those accounts are from different states, as are the email addresses.  

If anyone does have duplicate accounts for whatever reason, please let us mods/admins know so we can merge them.

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9 hours ago, M2 said:

ADMIN NOTE:  The IP addresses for those accounts are from different states, as are the email addresses.  

If anyone does have duplicate accounts for whatever reason, please let us mods/admins know so we can merge them.

I should have quoted the relevant posts. Pooter posted something about letting religious people gather so natural selection could take its course. Homestar calls him out. PooterBilbo defends by saying, "No, I said.."

Not that it matters. Just odd.

On 4/17/2020 at 11:41 AM, Pooter said:

Full disclosure: If it wasn't possible for church goers to infect others, I'd be all for them voluntarily gathering in the largest groups possible.  Disregarding public health guidance to worship your imaginary man in the sky is a beautiful example of both constitutional rights and natural selection.  

On 4/17/2020 at 8:28 PM, Homestar said:

You went from making a reasonable point to saying religious people should all get together and give themselves coronovirus because they’re stupid.  Not sure why or how you made this leap, but maybe you could try to bury your religious bigotry while you’re making your point. 

17 hours ago, Pooterbilbo said:

No, I said they should be allowed to do that if they want to. On the condition it wouldn't affect other people. It's not religious bigotry. I'll say the same about the throngs of Florida beach goers yesterday, people who throw coronavirus parties, and anyone else who chooses to congregate in large groups during a pandemic.  

 

Edited by torqued
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15 hours ago, kaputt said:

This is from my own social media and is written by a friend’s girlfriend who is a nurse. She wants all protesters to not only be arrested for protesting but also be prohibited from receiving medical care. 
 

Yikes was my only reaction. Pretty scary thoughts running through the heads of normal citizens in this country right now. 
 

A2D0CF7F-959C-45B6-A58F-BE42957ADF1A.thumb.jpeg.340331d338cec7c43a5e2482ffe56005.jpeg

I am personally terrified that someone that deranged and devoid of logic is allows to be a nurse and work with other’s health. 

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I’ve seen a few of those posts, as well. The big one is something about signing a document that says you won’t take medical treatment once you get it because you didn’t follow quarantine guidelines. I couldn’t help myself and asked the person if smokers, morbidly obese people, motorcyclists etc should all have similar documents since they’re knowingly putting their health at great risk. Imagine how that played out...

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2 minutes ago, dream big said:

I am personally terrified that someone that deranged and devoid of logic is allows to be a nurse and work with other’s health. 

Do nurses also take the Hippocratic oath? "Do no harm" is an overly simple summary of the oath, but the post in question seems at odds with the professional standards.

What may have been at first well intentioned is giving people delusions of grandeur. 

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2 hours ago, torqued said:

I should have quoted the relevant posts. Pooter posted something about letting religious people gather so natural selection could take its course. Homestar calls him out. PooterBilbo defends by saying, "No, I said.."

Not that it matters. Just odd.

ADMIN NOTE:  Thanks for the info, I sent him a message about it.  It will be resolved.

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Do nurses also take the Hippocratic oath? "Do no harm" is an overly simple summary of the oath, but the post in question seems at odds with the professional standards.
What may have been at first well intentioned is giving people delusions of grandeur. 


Yeah, they do.

But like any profession, you've got a wide range of people, and with that comes with a wide range of beliefs and emotions. I chalk it up to a nurse that's frustrated and dealing with a crap situation.

It's like asking a SrA or A1C how to win in Afghanistan, or how to deal with Russia and China-they'll have an option, but maybe it's not so great or realistic.

It's an interesting question to work through (my wife is a nurse who works at a clinic caring for mild COVID positive patients). On one hand, you don't want to turn away someone that needs medical care. On the other, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

What we settled on was all you can do is the best you can for the patients you get while protecting yourself, and hope that the infection rates stay slow enough that the medical system stays ahead of the need. But that's based on her employer right now providing proper PPE (N95 respirators, isolation gowns, googles, face shield, gloves) and continuing to do so. As soon as she doesn't feel safe at work, she's got the option to quit, as we'll be okay on my pay alone (though I doubt she would make that decision lightly).

Oh, and there's been a registered nurse shortage for years, and patient loads have been going up even before the pandemic, and I'm guessing it hasn't gotten any better for the nurses.
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1 hour ago, dream big said:

I am personally terrified that someone that deranged and devoid of logic is allows to be a nurse and work with other’s health. 

Fear drives some people away from liberty and into tyranny. It happens all the time, we’re just seeing it more pronounced now. People are actually turning in neighbors for not wearing masks or having people over. Pretty crazy stuff.

I’d like to think the majority of the American people are worried about the virus, but are becoming more irritated at the size and scope of the shutdown. My parents’ town has had two cases. One death, and the man was in his 80s. They have a mandatory curfew at 8pm. The city police actually pulled over my sister (an essential employee) and interrogated her for her “papers” on the way home. That same area is mandating masks.

So... you know what? Yeah. I’d protest too. It’s the most unconstitutional bunch of shit I have ever seen.

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