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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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On 4/19/2022 at 10:34 AM, Pooter said:

Yeah I get that, I'm more confused how a single federal judge (there are 1700+) can overrule the executive branch thereby reversing nationwide policy. And if all we had to do was find a single federal judge who didn't like the rule and sue in that court why tf did it take this long. 

I'm with Pooter.  It's been a long time since high school, and even then, it's not like we went into the minutia of how the federal courts work vs state courts, the power of the federal judiciary below the Supreme Court, etc.

I get that it happened, and I'm thrilled that it did.  I'm just equally surprised at the scope of thing (a single federal judge overturning a Presidential EO), the long timeline, etc.

Again though, glad that it was overturned.  And, surprising no one, all the typical players are taking the typical sides, using the typical talking points.  Such as:

NPR: The judge who tossed mask mandate misunderstood public health law, legal experts say

You see, she made the cardinal sin of the Church of Covid.  The judge didn't listen to "the experts."  Also, it was just her that did it.  This one judge.  Not like there is an entire legal system behind her.  It was just the one rouge judge who is determined to kill us all. [/sarcasm]

NPR: What to know about Judge Kathryn Mizelle, who struck down the travel mask mandate

Another article looking at the judge herself.  Nominated to the bench by Trump in Sept 2020, when she was only 33.  Some questions raised at the time about her limited experience, but ultimately she was confirmed.  Some comments about her right leaning views, because, surprise surprise, right leaning presidents tend to nominate right leaning judges.

She's a....she, so it must be so frustrating that Judge Mizelle can't be Kavanaugh-ed out with some salacious #meetoo accusation.  Although maybe they'll dredge up some law school classmate (male or female) with an accusation of impropriety.

But when you can't use sexism, go to racism, homophobia, and the newest bugaboo, trans-phobic!

Quote

It said that she helped dismantle many civil rights protections during her tenure as counsel to the associate attorney general in 2017 and 2018, including: rescinding Title IX guidance that protected transgender students, filing a brief with the Supreme Court arguing that businesses have the right to discriminate against LGBTQ customers.......

It's all so fucking tiresome.

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On 4/21/2022 at 6:35 AM, brabus said:

I should be smarter on this, but was there ever a limit on scope/number of EOs the exec branch had in years past? Regardless of party in the WH, I agree we shouldn't be seeing rule by EO. But they're needs to be some capability for the times Congress is gridlocked and accomplishing nothing (which seems most of the time these days). I don't know what the "right" scope/number is, but I do know we need less govt power immediately.

Increased power in the Executive Branch is something that has been creeping along for some time, at least since the 1970s.

There are many examples.  Executive Orders are one thing.  The War Powers Act of 1941, along with the War Powers Resolution of 1973 moved the balance of power in declaring and executing war from Congress to the Executive Branch. 

The 1976 National Emergencies Act cemented a lot of power in the Executive Branch related to declaring "National Emergencies."  I think most people would be surprised to hear that, in addition to the National Emergency declared for Covid, there are currently 42 National Emergencies in effect, each renewed yearly by the President.

Biden just declared his latest National Emergency last week: Invocation of Emergency Authority Relating to the Regulation of the Anchorage and Movement of Russian-Affiliated Vessels to United States Ports.  Ostensibly to prohibit Russian-affiliated vessels from entering into United States ports.  It's Biden's  6th declaration of a National Emergency......

Checks and Balances between the three branches of government is a cornerstone of our form of government.  For sure, there will always be some messiness and fuzziness around the edges.  How does the old saw go, something about "Our government is a terrible form of government, the only thing worse is the 100s of other forms of government that have been tried and failed?"

It's a crucial problem in government that needs to be addressed, and I don't know what the answer is.

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On 4/18/2022 at 2:37 PM, dream big said:

Probably the same people that wear it outside or alone in their car, you know, the ones that have it on for their Facebook picture.

On 4/18/2022 at 7:39 PM, Standby said:

I know you like a good bet…over/under on the increase of pre-departure altercations caused by the Branch Covidians trying to deliver street-mask-justice for the non-believers of the recycled Hanes skid mark underwear mask?

On 4/19/2022 at 5:36 PM, HeloDude said:

Go read some FB comments concerning the news story on the “mainstream news outlets”…the progressives are upset at the ruling and believes that this will kill people.  Oh and they say that the federal judge shouldn’t even be a judge (was “unqualified”), people that won’t wear masks are selfish, blah blah blah.  Same nonsense people have been spewing on here for the last 1.5-2 years.

On 4/20/2022 at 7:38 AM, dream big said:

Some of my leftist friends are confused why people are making such a big deal about masks. “It isn’t that inconvenient?” It isn’t about the damn mask, it’s about government overreach, which has to stop.

On 4/20/2022 at 3:48 PM, 08Dawg said:

There's been an amusing amount of leftist pearl clutching and reaching for smelling salts over the speed at which the mandate went away.  The Vice article I read last night had the headline "the World's Worst People Partied Mid-Flight" (linked here for your reading amusement). 

On 4/20/2022 at 6:29 PM, HeloDude said:

“Here we are, trapped in the sky with our 8-month-old unmasked baby (you can’t actually mask a baby that young) under the supposition that everyone who can be masked would be masked, and the flight 325 crew has taken our choices away from us,” one Twitter user said. “Very very angry about this.”

So apparently, if you give people the choice to wear masks or not, you’re actually “taking away choices” from others.  This only makes sense if you’re a progressive.

The vast majority of American's don't want any kind of mask mandate, and are happy the airline mandate went away.

The minority of people supporting the mask mandate are:

  • The current crop of Democrats
  • Most of the mainstream press
  • That minority of grown-ass adults who are impressionable and struggle with critical thinking, who buy into everything they are told by the government and the media.  Those are the people in your Facebook feed, and quoted in such esteemed rags as The Atlantic and the NYT.  White women tend to be overrepresented here, but that's a topic for another time.

A special mention goes out to every mid-level white collar employee out there who has been able to seamlessly transition from poking at their laptop in an office building, to poking at their laptop in their home office, while wearing their pajamas.  The so-called "Laptop Class."

These are the people who are comfy in their homes, and only have to don a mask when going out for groceries, hitting the local Home Depot, or maybe the occasional trip to a restaurant.  These are the people who haughtily say "What's wrong with you, masks aren't so bad!!!"  They retreat home, with no thought for the rest of the populace out there working masked-up all day long in the grocery stores, restaurants, factories, and elsewhere.

The midwits of the world can angrily post to Facebook all day long.  No one fucking cares, except their fellow zealots.  Everyone else has moved on.

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Went throught LGA today and was thrilled to see that despite NY state keeping the public transit mask mandate, the majority of pax and crew members I saw chose to ignore the automated mask requirement announcements.  

Good luck trying to turn that shit back on when cases start “up-ticking” before the mid-terms. 
 

 

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18 hours ago, Blue said:

The vast majority of American's don't want any kind of mask mandate, and are happy the airline mandate went away.

The minority of people supporting the mask mandate are:

  • The current crop of Democrats
  • Most of the mainstream press
  • That minority of grown-ass adults who are impressionable and struggle with critical thinking, who buy into everything they are told by the government and the media.  Those are the people in your Facebook feed, and quoted in such esteemed rags as The Atlantic and the NYT.  White women tend to be overrepresented here, but that's a topic for another time.

A special mention goes out to every mid-level white collar employee out there who has been able to seamlessly transition from poking at their laptop in an office building, to poking at their laptop in their home office, while wearing their pajamas.  The so-called "Laptop Class."

These are the people who are comfy in their homes, and only have to don a mask when going out for groceries, hitting the local Home Depot, or maybe the occasional trip to a restaurant.  These are the people who haughtily say "What's wrong with you, masks aren't so bad!!!"  They retreat home, with no thought for the rest of the populace out there working masked-up all day long in the grocery stores, restaurants, factories, and elsewhere.

The midwits of the world can angrily post to Facebook all day long.  No one ing cares, except their fellow zealots.  Everyone else has moved on.

LOL this is basically me.  But I have to travel to meet clients when needed and go to my main office in Houston occasionally.

Not everyone can work from home.  They arent mature enough of they need the social interaction.  We are trying to get ppl in but its come in when you need to.  The commute is pretty bad for a lot.  I also moved out of CO and cashed in and moved to the south east.  My clients are all over hte US so it didnt matter really where I was.  I think having a Mil background helped maintain discipline for me.

I am surprised the Dems seem to push ppl back into the cities though.  The work from home option seems to be a helper for climate change and help with congestion.  Fewer care=less pollution?  Or is the whole global warming scare a farce for voters?  Seems like an arrow in your quiver if you care that much.

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4 hours ago, glockenspiel said:

Be careful Pawn... EUA drugs cannot be mandated without presidential waiver. This General said the quiet part out loud: https://fb.watch/c40sAzGDis/

But he's probs just an armchair lawyer.

Youre aware that Pfizer has full approval now, right? Has for almost six months. 

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On 4/26/2022 at 12:46 PM, pawnman said:

Youre aware that Pfizer has full approval now, right? Has for almost six months. 

Is that why nobody can seem to get the non-EUA vaccine at any installation?

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/coronavirus-vaccine-blood-clots

Quote

In May, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) put new restrictions on who can get the J&J vaccine, based on a fresh review of data on the life-threatening blood clots that have been associated with the vaccine. 

How many discharges for refusing to take the Kung flu non-vaccine and/or medical injuries and subsequent loss of deployable personnel have occurred vs. if the virus had been allowed run its course in nearly the least affected demographic in the nation?

Seems a large own goal, but totally worth it, right?

But sketchy orders are orders...

Surely no correlation:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2022/01/21/air-forces-enlisted-recruitment-pipeline-is-drying-up-general-warns/

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My 79 year old Mother In Law was diagnosed with COVID-19 this morning.  This is her second bout with COVID having previously contracted it in 2020 when she nearly died.  Her previous case was so severe she was hospitalized and they gave here EVERYTHING with the doctor telling us "there is nothing else we can do."  Ultimately, she was given last rites but somehow survived after a lengthy hospital stay.   Since that event She has been double vaccinated and doubled boosted.  Should be some interesting contact tracing since she works at the White House.

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

Quote

The COVID-19 pandemic is one of the most manipulated infectious disease events in history, characterized by official lies in an unending stream lead by government bureaucracies, medical associations, medical boards, the media, and international agencies.[3,6,57] We have witnessed a long list of unprecedented intrusions into medical practice, including attacks on medical experts, destruction of medical careers among doctors refusing to participate in killing their patients and a massive regimentation of health care, led by non-qualified individuals with enormous wealth, power and influence.

For the first time in American history a president, governors, mayors, hospital administrators and federal bureaucrats are determining medical treatments based not on accurate scientifically based or even experience based information, but rather to force the acceptance of special forms of care and “prevention”—including remdesivir, use of respirators and ultimately a series of essentially untested messenger RNA vaccines. For the first time in history medical treatment, protocols are not being formulated based on the experience of the physicians treating the largest number of patients successfully, but rather individuals and bureaucracies that have never treated a single patient—including Anthony Fauci, Bill Gates, EcoHealth Alliance, the CDC, WHO, state public health officers and hospital administrators

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9062939/

 

spicy opinion article. 

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Posted (edited)

Just saw an official looking memorandum signed by 19AF/CC (AETC) directing that those whose religious accommodation request and subsequent appeal denial for the COVID vaccine be immediately grounded.

Furthermore, if the member doesn't request retirement or separation within 5 days of the appeal denial then they will also be immediately suspended from receiving AvIP and any aviation bonus in addition to being grounded.

19AF/CC has already prohibited all TDYs for unvaccinated personnel prior to this new policy.

Apparently the "pilot crisis" can't be too bad if they're willing to cut UPT and FTU production by grounding AETC IPs for refraining from a vaccine that has proven to not be the "miracle vaccine" that it was initially advertised as.

Edited to add: Unvaxxed AETC IPs have been flying the line with and alongside like their vaxxed counterparts for over 6 months now with absolutely no issues whatsover.  There is no logical argument to ground these people from flying while still allowing them to work and sim in close proximity to everyone else.  This policy is completely about power and has zero to do with protecting people or making the workplace safer.

--Break, break--

How come no one is asking why it's been almost a year since the Comrinaty was approved and we still have no FDA approved vaccine available in the U.S.?  Could it be that Pfizer doesn't want to be liable for any lawsuits since they are protected from such under the EUA?  If so, why would they be worried about lawsuits if the vaccine is indeed safe and effective?

-9-

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11 hours ago, Nineline said:

Just saw an official looking memorandum signed by 19AF/CC (AETC) directing that those whose religious accommodation request and subsequent appeal denial for the COVID vaccine be immediately grounded.

Furthermore, if the member doesn't request retirement or separation within 5 days of the appeal denial then they will also be immediately suspended from receiving AvIP and any aviation bonus in addition to being grounded.

IGs about to have to start putting up those “take a number, currently serving number 69”  things for the flood of complaints about to arrive. 

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21 hours ago, Nineline said:

for refraining from a vaccine that has proven to not be the "miracle vaccine" that it was initially advertised as.

Indeed. I was (voluntarily) vaccinated with Pfizer on Jun/Jul of last year. Right now I have COVID for the second time, and it's been full COVID, like a bad flu.

 

But this was never about science.

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2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Indeed. I was (voluntarily) vaccinated with Pfizer on Jun/Jul of last year. Right now I have COVID for the second time, and it's been full COVID, like a bad flu.

 

But this was never about science.

but thankfully you've been vaxed/boosted and your symptoms are mild /s

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23 hours ago, Nineline said:

Just saw an official looking memorandum signed by 19AF/CC (AETC) directing that those whose religious accommodation request and subsequent appeal denial for the COVID vaccine be immediately grounded.

Furthermore, if the member doesn't request retirement or separation within 5 days of the appeal denial then they will also be immediately suspended from receiving AvIP and any aviation bonus in addition to being grounded.

19AF/CC has already prohibited all TDYs for unvaccinated personnel prior to this new policy.

Apparently the "pilot crisis" can't be too bad if they're willing to cut UPT and FTU production by grounding AETC IPs for refraining from a vaccine that has proven to not be the "miracle vaccine" that it was initially advertised as.

Edited to add: Unvaxxed AETC IPs have been flying the line with and alongside like their vaxxed counterparts for over 6 months now with absolutely no issues whatsover.  There is no logical argument to ground these people from flying while still allowing them to work and sim in close proximity to everyone else.  This policy is completely about power and has zero to do with protecting people or making the workplace safer.

--Break, break--

How come no one is asking why it's been almost a year since the Comrinaty was approved and we still have no FDA approved vaccine available in the U.S.?  Could it be that Pfizer doesn't want to be liable for any lawsuits since they are protected from such under the EUA?  If so, why would they be worried about lawsuits if the vaccine is indeed safe and effective?

-9-

I'll bite. Good.

And let's go into this assuming that the effects of the virus are overblown, and that the vaccine was overpromised and underdelivered. And that this isn't in fact a readiness issue.

All of that aside, a segment of the population decided to ignore a military order. It shouldn't matter if they were first-term Airmen handing out volleyballs, or AETC instructor pilots. Either way, their actions are not compatible with military service in an all-volunteer force. They should be shown the door, honorably. Not punitively. Absolve all ADSCs and bonus repayments, just a quick date of separation and an honorable discharge. Nobody is forced to be here.

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@Waingro Cutting off the nose to spite the face is all that is. This wasn’t a refusal to go to war and do their jobs. Leaders and problem solvers don’t blindly think in black and white, but that’s exactly what this line of thought is. “Leaders” who are incapable of critical thought  and just “read the teleprompter” are a bad thing.

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22 minutes ago, Waingro said:

I'll bite. Good.

And let's go into this assuming that the effects of the virus are overblown, and that the vaccine was overpromised and underdelivered. And that this isn't in fact a readiness issue.

All of that aside, a segment of the population decided to ignore a military order. It shouldn't matter if they were first-term Airmen handing out volleyballs, or AETC instructor pilots. Either way, their actions are not compatible with military service in an all-volunteer force. They should be shown the door, honorably. Not punitively. Absolve all ADSCs and bonus repayments, just a quick date of separation and an honorable discharge. Nobody is forced to be here.

Let's take all of the assumptions in your first paragraph to be true, then that order wouldn't be a lawful order because it lacks military neccesity. All orders have to have military neccesity, regardless of the context. 

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2 hours ago, brabus said:

@Waingro Cutting off the nose to spite the face is all that is. This wasn’t a refusal to go to war and do their jobs. Leaders and problem solvers don’t blindly think in black and white, but that’s exactly what this line of thought is. “Leaders” who are incapable of critical thought  and just “read the teleprompter” are a bad thing.

I don't disagree, but expecting wing leadership to buck a SECDEF directive is some higher-level fantasy thinking. 

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2 hours ago, FLEA said:

Let's take all of the assumptions in your first paragraph to be true, then that order wouldn't be a lawful order because it lacks military neccesity. All orders have to have military neccesity, regardless of the context. 

That's a pretty high bar to clear. What about off-limits locales in town? Double hearing protection required? Reflective belts? Flu vaccine? Buddy requirements downtown on a TDY? E-4s and below can't drive cars? We have to work on Sundays, my holy day of rest?

That's all really subjective. Ordering a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic doesn't break the noise threshold in terms of military necessity. This vaccine for this virus looks like a gross overreaction in hindsight. Sort of like the anthrax vaccine. Or smallpox for that matter. But here we are, and those who chose to disobey what's pretty plainly a lawful order, should get a handshake, a litho, and a DD-214.

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10 hours ago, Waingro said:

That's a pretty high bar to clear. What about off-limits locales in town? Double hearing protection required? Reflective belts? Flu vaccine? Buddy requirements downtown on a TDY? E-4s and below can't drive cars? We have to work on Sundays, my holy day of rest?

That's all really subjective. Ordering a vaccine in the middle of a pandemic doesn't break the noise threshold in terms of military necessity. This vaccine for this virus looks like a gross overreaction in hindsight. Sort of like the anthrax vaccine. Or smallpox for that matter. But here we are, and those who chose to disobey what's pretty plainly a lawful order, should get a handshake, a litho, and a DD-214.

what about CONTINUING to order a vax that is PROVEN to not be effective?

the military member is NOT protected by taking this vax. how about that?!

this is a pure MONEY GRAB by big pharma....a industry that only a few years ago was the target of the left, but MAGICALLY now is the medical jesus of all leftists and "critical thinkers"

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[mention=77334]Waingro[/mention] Cutting off the nose to spite the face is all that is. This wasn’t a refusal to go to war and do their jobs. Leaders and problem solvers don’t blindly think in black and white, but that’s exactly what this line of thought is. “Leaders” who are incapable of critical thought  and just “read the teleprompter” are a bad thing.

Being potentially not deployable to certain locations is an issue.


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