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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VuouMqMkDrg57QEHd94nqYLGck8wFKdH/view?fbclid=IwAR1Vm7FonfF500oXe0zLZfnz8bHLB2JAwhlfLmcnDd9eqHBar0v-HOMgPtQ

USAF guidance on Covid vaccines.  Couple of things stuck out:

1. Your 16+ years of service may not be enough to keep you in until retirement if you refuse the vaccines

2. An established separation or retirement date doesn't exempt you from needing the vaccine

3. There will be no involuntary separation pay if you are separated for refusing the vaccine

4. Refusing the vaccine doesn't automatically get you out of your ADSC

5. If you took the bonus or are still on the hook for TA or other educational benefits, and you get kicked out, the Air Force will likely come after you for the "unearned" portion of the bonus and/or recoup the cost of the educational benefits.

6. The memo does not definitively state the characterization of a discharge for vaccine refusal, leaving that to individual commanders.

 

Edit: related, from a terrible screen grab:

You CAN be ordered to take the Pfizer vaccine.  No holding out for a label change to Comirnaty.

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Edited by pawnman
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39 minutes ago, BrightNeptune said:

From a friend through the rumor mill:

It seems at least one UPT student that is already flying complete but not graduated yet has refused the vaccine. What happens to them?

One possibility: He makes sure his logbook is properly filled out, get his military equivalency instrument and commercial ratings, gets a civilian job, does whatever he wants, marries a hot flight attendant or two, and lives happily ever after.

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One possibility: He makes sure his logbook is properly filled out, get his military equivalency instrument and commercial ratings, gets a civilian job, does whatever he wants, marries a hot flight attendant or two, and lives happily ever after.
And then get to the airlines and find that the airlines are requiring the vaccine as well.

Very refreshing to see that when Air Force leaders put their minds to it they can actually cover all their bases when it comes to strong-arming people into doing something. I just wish they'd use those talents in other places.
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1 hour ago, BrightNeptune said:

From a friend through the rumor mill:

It seems at least one UPT student that is already flying complete but not graduated yet has refused the vaccine. What happens to them?

“Thanks for your service. Here’s your DD-214.”

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One possibility: He makes sure his logbook is properly filled out, get his military equivalency instrument and commercial ratings, gets a civilian job, does whatever he wants, marries a hot flight attendant or two, and lives happily ever after.


He hasn't been winged yet, so the AF could opt to not wing him and deny him the pilot aeronautical rating, which means no mil-comp for commercial/instrument ratings.

Best case for him is the system is slow and he wings. Worst case is what I have above. Most likely is being put on admin hold and rolling a class or two while the commanders figure out what to do.
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6 minutes ago, jazzdude said:


 

 


He hasn't been winged yet, so the AF could opt to not wing him and deny him the pilot aeronautical rating, which means no mil-comp for commercial/instrument ratings.

Best case for him is the system is slow and he wings. Worst case is what I have above. Most likely is being put on admin hold and rolling a class or two while the commanders figure out what to do.

 

According to the 19th AF/CC guidance we got in an email last week, said individual WILL be put on administrative hold pending a determination of his/her future in the service.  Whether the Bobs ultimately decide to wing him/her since according to the source he/she is syllabus complete I honestly couldn't say.

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According to the 19th AF/CC guidance we got in an email last week, said individual WILL be put on administrative hold pending a determination of his/her future in the service.  Whether the Bobs ultimately decide to wing him/her since according to the source he/she is syllabus complete I honestly couldn't say.
Wing him? Forgetabout it!.... they won't wing him. It'll be the ultimate sacrifice and they will have no problems throwing all of that money away to make an example out of him.
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17 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

According to the 19th AF/CC guidance we got in an email last week, said individual WILL be put on administrative hold pending a determination of his/her future in the service.  Whether the Bobs ultimately decide to wing him/her since according to the source he/she is syllabus complete I honestly couldn't say.

Why would they wing someone right before administratively separating them? I'd be surprised.

 

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2 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Why would they wing someone right before administratively separating them? I'd be surprised.

 

I think he should argue that he successfully completed the training, and met all the preexisting conditions and standards to be designated an Air Force pilot. It wasn't until after he met those requirements that the vaccine was mandated, and even then, it isn't a condition for being a pilot, just for staying in.

Even still, I'd also be surprised. It's probably a rare situation and the risk of blowback for denying him wings isn't enough for Wing leadership to care about. Unless they're a Gen Milley, they're going to tow the line.

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I think he should argue that he successfully completed the training, and met all the preexisting conditions and standards to be designated an Air Force pilot. It wasn't until after he met those requirements that the vaccine was mandated, and even then, it isn't a condition for being a pilot, just for staying in.
Even still, I'd also be surprised. It's probably a rare situation and the risk of blowback for denying him wings isn't enough for Wing leadership to care about. Unless they're a Gen Milley, they're going to tow the line.


Would you make this argument if said student got RPAs, completed the syllabus, then DOR'd right before graduation?
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9 minutes ago, torqued said:

I think he should argue that he successfully completed the training, and met all the preexisting conditions and standards to be designated an Air Force pilot. It wasn't until after he met those requirements that the vaccine was mandated, and even then, it isn't a condition for being a pilot, just for staying in.

Even still, I'd also be surprised. It's probably a rare situation and the risk of blowback for denying him wings isn't enough for Wing leadership to care about. Unless they're a Gen Milley, they're going to tow the line.

You are trying to use way too much common sense here.  They will not wing him.  The pilot shortage is a crisis of the past.  

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18 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Why would they wing someone right before administratively separating them? I'd be surprised.

 

Don’t know, honestly think it could be Wg/CC and timing dependent but I’m speculating, the email didn’t go into any more specifics.  I also don’t have even close to the full story on this so any guess I make as to 19th/AF and AETC’s actions would be just a guess.
  Personal opinion, if the guy completed the syllabus, was just waiting on graduation and I was wing king I’d let him wing with his class; I wouldn’t see that as being tied to the vaccine refusal.  
 

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8 minutes ago, jazzdude said:


Would you make this argument if said student got RPAs, completed the syllabus, then DOR'd right before graduation?

This case might be different. If someone DOR'd before graduation, they've effectively ended it.

I don't know the details of this one, but the student has finished flying so graduation should be before the official deadline of Nov 2.

If this student were smart, he'd remain passively non-compliant until after he's winged.

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1 minute ago, torqued said:

This case might be different. If someone DOR'd before graduation, they've effectively ended it.

I don't know the details of this one, but the student has finished flying so graduation should be before the official deadline of Nov 2.

If this student were smart, he'd remain passively non-compliant until after he's winged.

You know the easy way out to a lot of people's hesitation to the new mRNA-type vaccines would be to just get the J&J jab and be done with it.  It's an adenovirus vaccine.  The technology has been around and been used since the 1970's in many other vaccinations.  Get the J&J, get it in your military medical records as having a COVID shot and be done with it.

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Just now, TheNewGazmo said:

You know the easy way out to a lot of people's hesitation to the new mRNA-type vaccines would be to just get the J&J jab and be done with it.  It's an adenovirus vaccine.  The technology has been around and been used since the 1970's in many other vaccinations.  Get the J&J, get it in your military medical records as having a COVID shot and be done with it.

That's a compromise I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to make. Is J&J authorized to meet the mandate requirement?

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10 minutes ago, torqued said:

That's a compromise I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to make. Is J&J authorized to meet the mandate requirement?

It was 6-8 months ago for us in the Guard.  They told everyone that if they got a COVID vaccine off base at a local pharmacy to make sure it got into our records.  I do know that Walgreens' system talks to ASIMS. Is the DoD mandating the Pfizer shot even for people who've already gotten the J&J?  I know quite a few people in my unit who opted for the J&J last Spring.

My only concern is that when I got the Pfizer through Walgreens, ASIMS flagged me due for a second one.  It just comes up as "COVID-19" so ASIMS may in fact not be smart enough to recognize the difference between the one-shot or the two.

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8 minutes ago, torqued said:

That's a compromise I'm sure a lot of people would be willing to make. Is J&J authorized to meet the mandate requirement?

Any of the vaccines meet the mandate requirement; DoD can only force you to take Pfizer since that’s the only FDA approved one.  Got two guys in my class that got the J&J off base and they’re green as far the military is concerned.

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10 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

No way they'll give him wings! Are you high? It doesn't matter that he'll have completed all the pilot training "requirements." He'll not be an officer in good standing, and that's a major, perhaps more fundamental component.

 

2 hours ago, torqued said:

I don't know the details of this one, but the student has finished flying so graduation should be before the official deadline of Nov 2.

If this student were smart, he'd remain passively non-compliant until after he's winged.

 

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I did the J&J and that son of a gun hurt like all get out going in. I've had tons of shots, but that was by far the most painful jab so far (not knee buckling pain but def uncomfortable).
Interesting. Maybe they hit the bone... didn't even feel my Pfizer. Actually had to look over and see that the dude was done. Then a week later it felt like someone was sticking an ice pick into my arm pit.
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