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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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11 minutes ago, Guardian said:

No way pawnman is a single seat Fighterpilot. I don’t believe that.

No, just a dirty nav. Everyone knows that navs are only navy because we're too retarded to be pilots.

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@BashiChuniAs usual, multiple things can be true at once. 
 

I don't think you can take a single factor analysis and treat it as gospel simply because someone superimposed two graphs. Saying Israel->mask mandates->huge spike anyway, vs Sweden->no masks->no spike... therefore masks are useless neglects to mention the litany of other variables at play here. 
 

Demographics, climate, population, population density, when and where a variant hits first, covid approach from the beginning all play a role. Israel and sweden are so different I don't think you can draw a good conclusion from a single factor analysis. 
 

Having said that, I don't think mask mandates make much of a difference as polling data shows people tend to mask up voluntarily when their perceived risk increases. 

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38 minutes ago, Pooter said:

......

Having said that, I don't think mask mandates make much of a difference as polling data shows people tend to mask up voluntarily when their perceived risk increases. 

You're just proving humans are pretty much morons. An individual's perceived risk is the exact wrong reason for them to put on a mask in the first place. The only potential help mask wear offers is to help hinder/prevent passing on germs to others. I grew up in Asia and people wore masks when they were sick and had to go out, otherwise no masks. But now since we have all gone full retard, even in Asia they are wearing masks almost all of the time.

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1 hour ago, BrightNeptune said:

What are the details of that separation? 

Non-voluntary separation with the pay that goes with it? Honorable discharge? ADSCs removed?

Email didn't say and I would guess the Bobs are still working those details out.  

  My personal guess (disclaimer, I'm speculating) is it would be a General Discharge under Honorable conditions but I wouldn't rule out an Other Than Honorable depending on how the Bobs take a failure to follow a direct order (if there's any JAGs on here they'd have a better idea).  I don't know on the non-voluntary separation pay (my gut feeling is that would be a no due to the circumstances of the discharge but I could be wrong).  If you were discharged over this your ADSC would be removed.  

  After the Anthrax shot legal challenge ended my community had an individual refuse a direct order from the Sq/CC to take that vaccine; it didn't go well for him.  He was close to retirement and was ultimately allowed to retire, but that was the only positive for said individual.  

I've said it before but if this is your hill I understand, it's your choice, just be ready to die on it.  All decisions have consequences.  The military isn't going to fuck around with people who refuse a direct order.  Barring some legal challenge that halts COVID vaccinations across the DoD you're going to have to make a decision.  And even then, after the several years it takes the case to work it's way through the courts, the DoD is probably going to prevail and you'll still be faced with the same decision several years later, possibly when you have more invested in the military.

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What's this? Half?

A great read in the Atlantic:

Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning

A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.

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16 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

Email didn't say and I would guess the Bobs are still working those details out.  

  My personal guess (disclaimer, I'm speculating) is it would be a General Discharge under Honorable conditions but I wouldn't rule out an Other Than Honorable depending on how the Bobs take a failure to follow a direct order (if there's any JAGs on here they'd have a better idea).  I don't know on the non-voluntary separation pay (my gut feeling is that would be a no due to the circumstances of the discharge but I could be wrong).  If you were discharged over this your ADSC would be removed.  

  After the Anthrax shot legal challenge ended my community had an individual refuse a direct order from the Sq/CC to take that vaccine; it didn't go well for him.  He was close to retirement and was ultimately allowed to retire, but that was the only positive for said individual.  

I've said it before but if this is your hill I understand, it's your choice, just be ready to die on it.  All decisions have consequences.  The military isn't going to around with people who refuse a direct order.  Barring some legal challenge that halts COVID vaccinations across the DoD you're going to have to make a decision.  And even then, after the several years it takes the case to work it's way through the courts, the DoD is probably going to prevail and you'll still be faced with the same decision several years later, possibly when you have more invested in the military.

If I could use this as an excuse to get out under honorable I would do it tomorrow. If I could do honorable and get non-vol sep pay, I would have done it yesterday.

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1 hour ago, torqued said:

Jesus dude take a second to look at statistics for more than just a surface level talking point. 
 

Covid deaths are extremely closely linked to old age. The elderly are overwhelmingly vaccinated. Like upwards of 90% in the UK. So yes, more vaccinated old people have died in the last six months. Could that be because the denominator is far larger??  Weird.. so a small proportion of a giant denominator can sometimes be larger than a medium proportion of a small denominator. Math is so weird isn't it?!


This is a perfect example of how a garbage interpretation of data can lead to a totally incorrect conclusion. You have to look at the death rate. 1000 deaths in 90% of a demographic is a much much better rate than 500 deaths in 10% of that demographic. 

Edited by Pooter
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9 minutes ago, BrightNeptune said:

If I could use this as an excuse to get out under honorable I would do it tomorrow. If I could do honorable and get non-vol sep pay, I would have done it yesterday.

Reminds me of the fellow who visited his sawbones concerning "certain complaints and embarrassing symptoms"...The doc asks..."well sir, do you have a discharge?"  and the fellow answers  "Yes Doctor...honorable"

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7 minutes ago, BrightNeptune said:

If I could use this as an excuse to get out under honorable I would do it tomorrow. If I could do honorable and get non-vol sep pay, I would have done it yesterday.

Copy.  Like I said, I'm speculating but my guess is whatever discharge the military gives for this will not be a straight honorable discharge because of the nature (refusing a direct order) and to be quite honest the UCMJ is on their side.

  If you don't mind me asking, do you want to get out because of the mandatory COVID vaccine or did you want to get out anyway and this just presents an opportunity to do so? 

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10 minutes ago, Pooter said:

Jesus dude take a second to look at statistics for more than just a surface level talking point. 
 

Covid deaths are extremely closely linked to old age. The elderly are overwhelmingly vaccinated. Like upwards of 90% in the UK. So yes, more vaccinated old people have died in the last six months. Could that be because the denominator is far larger??  Weird.. so a small proportion of a giant denominator can sometimes be larger than a medium proportion of a small denominator. Math is so weird isn't it?!


This is a perfect example of how a garbage interpretation of data can lead to a totally incorrect conclusion. You have to look at the death rate. 1000 deaths in 90% of a demographic is a much much better rate than 500 deaths in 10% of that demographic. 

LOL. Now do this one:

https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/09/07/massachusetts-coronavirus-breakthrough-cases-jump-4415-last-week-more-than-600-fully-vaccinated-people-a-day/

and this one:

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/09/covid-hospitalization-numbers-can-be-misleading/620062/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

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24 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

Copy.  Like I said, I'm speculating but my guess is whatever discharge the military gives for this will not be a straight honorable discharge because of the nature (refusing a direct order) and to be quite honest the UCMJ is on their side.

  If you don't mind me asking, do you want to get out because of the mandatory COVID vaccine or did you want to get out anyway and this just presents an opportunity to do so? 

On the enlisted side if you get a General Under Honorable discharge during your first enlistment, you lose your G.I. Bill. Now sure how that would play out for officers?

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9 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

On the enlisted side if you get a General Under Honorable discharge during your first enlistment, you lose your G.I. Bill. Now sure how that would play out for officers?

  As I understand it, you lose some of of it but can still retain some as well.  I only have second hand experience with this aspect of a General Under Honorable so I honestly don't know all the details.  BLUF is that there's definitely some penalties for not completing your enlistment. 

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1 hour ago, torqued said:

Perhaps try making an argument rather than just blasting out more links and expecting people to go on a scavenger hunt to figure out what your point is.

Are you actually arguing the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death?

And if you want anyone to take you seriously, can't just LOL away the fact that you were citing absolute death numbers without considering the denominators those numbers come from. 

Edited by Pooter
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Hope everyone who choose to die on this vaccination hill gets some immense satisfaction out of sticking it to big blue. Because that's likely all you're getting.
 

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization.
 

The number of people who discovered their extremely sincerely held religious beliefs on stem cells just this past week is particularly rich. You'd think a supposedly principled person would think twice about faking a religious belief to justify their stubbornness, but I'm sure the crippling case of Dunning-Kruger prevents that level of introspection. 

Edited by Pooter
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8 minutes ago, Pooter said:


The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization.
 

Funny, I found the same to be true in the opposite direction.  

Quote with appropriate edits...

"The staunch vax mandate dudes I know are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization."

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17 minutes ago, bfargin said:

Funny, I found the same to be true in the opposite direction.  

Quote with appropriate edits...

"The staunch vax mandate dudes I know are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization."

I actually haven't encountered a single one of those people. Most of the rest of us aren't "staunch mandate" we just have a modicum of awareness about what we signed up for and aren't going to torpedo our job and reputation because we got a little too riled up over some podcasts. 

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I know we can all come across as condescending when we argue our point at times, but your posts about this topic make me think of Cartman.image.png.ad55d79faff6733ff4a3ba0612fbc0d6.png

 There's enough BS in the vaccine efforts (roll-out, news reporting on Covid, governmental communications, mandates, etc) to make anyway pause. Do I think the vaccine has been effective in reducing severe complications in many people, yes, do i think it should be mandated for any portion of the population, no.

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7 hours ago, Pooter said:

Perhaps try making an argument rather than just blasting out more links and expecting people to go on a scavenger hunt to figure out what your point is.

Are you actually arguing the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death?

And if you want anyone to take you seriously, can't just LOL away the fact that you were citing absolute death numbers without considering the denominators those numbers come from. 

My argument has always been that the vaccine is not completely safe and that vaccine is not completely effective.

Evidence continues to leak through the massive propaganda wall that this vaccine is neither.

I LOL'd because it was obvious you don't understand the table. The denominator is already in the table. FIRST COLUMN. WTF? I continue to LOL because I can't believe I have to point this out

All Old People (>50) Delta COVID Deaths (Denominator) - 1644

Vaccinated (Numerator) - 1054

Unvaccinated (Numerator) - 437

You are trying to bury the evidence in "denominators of all old people deaths for all reasons" when the fact of the matter is the deaths in that table are being attributed to COVID. Yes, old people die of a lot of things. But these are all the deaths in the UK being attributed to COVID by a positive specimen test and after receiving a vaccine. If the people in your denominators were dying from other old people reasons, they wouldn't be recorded in the table. Why would any of them be recorded as dying of COVID if they are vaccinated, and at higher rates (in the same row) than unvaccinated? It is because the vaccine doesn't work as advertised?

Yes, I am arguing there is evidence to suggest the vaccine does not reduce the rates of hospitalization and death to the extent that it should be mandatory for everyone. Breakthrough infections. A outdated vaccine that was manufactured for the original genomic sequence and one that will continue to mutate even if 100% of the population receives this vaccine.

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

Hope everyone who choose to die on this vaccination hill gets some immense satisfaction out of sticking it to big blue. Because that's likely all you're getting.
 

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags

Somehow I get the impression no one in your SQ cares about your personal assessment of their character.

 

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6 hours ago, Pooter said:

Hope everyone who choose to die on this vaccination hill gets some immense satisfaction out of sticking it to big blue. Because that's likely all you're getting.
 

The staunch anti vax dudes I know of are invariably the squadron shitbags, who spend way too much time publicly arguing politics on Facebook, and who will not be missed by anyone.. least of all the commanders who are relishing this excuse to get a complete liability out of their organization.
 

The number of people who discovered their extremely sincerely held religious beliefs on stem cells just this past week is particularly rich. You'd think a supposedly principled person would think twice about faking a religious belief to justify their stubbornness, but I'm sure the crippling case of Dunning-Kruger prevents that level of introspection. 

I'm hoping they get out. I've got a batch of solid cadets...cutting some officers who can't do basic statistics makes room for cadets who are motivated, vaccinated, and desperately want to be Air Force Lts.

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3 hours ago, pawnman said:

I'm hoping they get out. I've got a batch of solid cadets...cutting some officers who can't do basic statistics makes room for cadets who are motivated, vaccinated, and desperately want to be Air Force Lts.

This is not related to this discussion at all, but I thought this story about a teacher indoctrinating his students and rewarding them for adopting his positions was interesting.

 

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Alright, lots of interest stuff coming through the book faces lately and I havent had a lot of time so I'll just throw it all down and people can make what they want of it. 

1.) It appears that not all Phizer vaccines are created equal. Only certain batch #'s fall under the full FDA approval of Comirnaty and it can be potentially an unlawful order to direct you to receive a different batch. This is likely because FDA approval doesn't just analyze the chemical composition of an ingredient but also the manufacturing processes and procedures. It is possible the FDA wasn't able to certify earlier batch numbers. 

2.) Current AFI guidance is superseded by the SECDEF memo however there is strong indication that receiving the mandatory vaccine creates a Line of Duty determination, forcing AF to compensate people for side effects. 

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