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COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


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2 hours ago, BFM this said:

So...pre-COVID, old people weren’t getting flu shots?

Your supposition might be correct, but leaves doubt.

1. Not nearly as many

2. It's not like we stopped all other vaccination efforts. 

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21 minutes ago, pawnman said:

1. Not nearly as many

2. It's not like we stopped all other vaccination efforts. 

Exactly

Which is why the spike in morbidity/mortality is notable.  That there is no potential for causality, while valid as a null hypothesis, is more dubious than its counter hypothesis.

2000/4years vs 5000/.5years is an extreme jump, no matter how you parse the data.

Edited by BFM this
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22 minutes ago, BFM this said:

Exactly

Which is why the spike in morbidity/mortality is notable.  That there is no potential for causality, while valid as a null hypothesis, is more dubious than its counter hypothesis.

2000/4years vs 5000/.5years is an extreme jump, no matter how you parse the data.

Again...useless without total number of vaccines distributed in the same timeframe.

Also, 5000 deaths in 171 million vaccinations is still way better than 600k deaths in 32 million Covid cases. 

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1 hour ago, BFM this said:

As we’ve seen, also dubious...

So 100% faith in 5000 deaths from vaccines, but no faith in 600K deaths from Covid?  From the same agency?

What WOULD you accept as valid estimates for Covid fatalities?

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3 hours ago, pawnman said:

So 100% faith in 5000 deaths from vaccines, but no faith in 600K deaths from Covid?  From the same agency?

What WOULD you accept as valid estimates for Covid fatalities?

Absolutely NO government source would be accepted by me.  From nearly the get go, federal/state/local "leaders" have politicized this goatrope to the point where nothing is trustworthy.

It's a scary world; I'll make my own decisions for me and mine.

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On 6/26/2021 at 6:45 PM, BroncoEN said:

So much emotion with this from everyone.  My family got the vaccine because my wife works with immunocompromised children that can’t get it…. not because we are concerned about ourselves. Every M.D. we know got it the minute they could (even pregnant or nursing)… so we trusted their decisions and followed, because as it turns out, I’m a pilot and not a medical professional.

The same medical professionals (1K of them) who said that the anti-lockdown protests were dangerous due to the spread of covid but the protests after the Floyd shooting was ok because it was for a better cause? (see link below).

https://www.wsj.com/articles/health-care-workers-say-protests-are-vital-despite-coronavirus-risks-11591790600

The covid pandemic has been heavily politicized from the very start by both sides…but one side was all about using the virus to increase government control and reduce individual liberties all in the name of saving lives…and then gave a pass when it suited their agenda or their own personal lives (let me know if you or others want more examples).

So when it comes to the mask wear and the vaccine, it should be up the individual, and that should be respected.  My parents got the shot and I support their decision, and likewise I have a lot of friends who don’t think they need it and/or don’t feel comfortable with taking a vaccine that isn’t FDA approved and only authorized under emergency status, and that is also fine.  Yet we have some on this forum who still believe you’re killing your neighbor if you don’t get the shot or don’t wear a mask—and that’s the problem.

By the way, if people who have had the covid shot can still get covid, as well as still transmit covid/infect others, then why aren’t vaccinated people still required to wear a mask?  Especially if the mask was more so about protecting other vulnerable people around you and less about protecting yourself?

(this wasn’t a direct post to you Bronco, but rather addressing others on here who say to trust the medical folks no matter what and if you don’t get the shot then you want others to die)

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2 hours ago, brickhistory said:

Absolutely NO government source would be accepted by me.  From nearly the get go, federal/state/local "leaders" have politicized this goatrope to the point where nothing is trustworthy.

It's a scary world; I'll make my own decisions for me and mine.

Based on just your gut feelings?  

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On 6/26/2021 at 6:12 PM, uhhello said:

But "Trust the science" bro. 

If the last 16 months has taught us nothing else: If something is boiled down to a catch phrase and wielded as a cudgel, be wary.

Edited by Royal
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It's odd that guyz who likely have a page full of injection records from flu shots to the dreaded Gamma Globulin would be so worried about another vaccine.  In any case the refusal cases are essentially a self selecting cohort whose data  will be studied for years. Researchers pay big money for such folk.. They are a badly needed population full of data points that will really help to analyze this event and hopefully make the next time a lot smoother..There will be math..sociology..medical...religious..and all kinds of Phd's riding on this one for years..Hell...they may have it nailed before a new tanker makes the ramp...

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3 hours ago, Alpharatz said:

It's odd that guyz who likely have a page full of injection records from flu shots to the dreaded Gamma Globulin would be so worried about another vaccine.  

Every flu shot that I received was under threat of the UCMJ.

Haven't had one since.  ...also haven’t had the flu since then so 🤷🏼‍♂️

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You know how your immune system reacts to a virus, but there's a spool up time? Your body also reacts to vaccines, in a more mild fashion, in a way that reduces the spool up time.
Think of it this way. In Afghanistan, someone shoots at guys on the ground, and it takes time to PID, get coords, program a weapon, etc.  But it you know where Bin Laden is hiding, with a picture of the guy, already know what's in the building...you can react  much more quickly.
Vaccines are like an Intel shop for your immune system, priming it to react to threats before they enter the body.

Still no explanation pawnman as to why I don’t understand immune systems? Your explanation still doesn’t do anything to disagree or disprove my statement from previous.
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9 hours ago, Alpharatz said:

It's odd that guyz who likely have a page full of injection records from flu shots to the dreaded Gamma Globulin would be so worried about another vaccine. 

How many of those compelled vaccinations were of the mRNA variety? It's not unreasonable that people are leery after witnessing how almost every aspect of the pandemic was mishandled. When the anthrax vaccine was introduced, there was serious skepticism as well. It was at least partially warranted: I know two people personally that had severe side effects from their shots and anecdotal stories of several others who had adverse reactions.

None of this would be an issue if the pharma CEOs, military, and gov't all guaranteed compensation to families of individuals that reacted negatively to the inoculation (ie death or systemic health issues). It's curious to me that on one hand we can be so convinced of the "science," but on the other, if something were to go wrong for an individual after taking the shot, we'll get fed the line "correlation does not equal causation."

To be clear, I hope the Covid vaccine is the medical miracle of the 21st century and that we'll look back on this situation as a blessing in disguise, realizing the virus acted as a catalyst for a historic leap in immunological technology.

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1 hour ago, Guardian said:


Still no explanation pawnman as to why I don’t understand immune systems? Your explanation still doesn’t do anything to disagree or disprove my statement from previous.

I know you don't understand immune systems because you think a vaccine for one disease impacts your ability to fight other diseases.

Did you spend a week in an isolated bubble after getting the smallpox, anthrax, or flu vaccine?  No?  Weren't you worried about your immune systems in those cases?

Here you go.  Read to your heart's content.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/conversations/understanding-vacc-work.html

 

Edited by pawnman
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Let me know when all those who have had their covid shots suddenly are back to believing they need to wear masks and practice social distancing…you know, because it’s what the medical professionals say.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/06/25/delta-who-urges-fully-vaccinated-people-to-continue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html
 

If you don’t support people doing what they believe is right for themselves but at the same time are picking and choosing what you do vs what medical professionals want you to do, then you’re the problem.  

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5 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Let me know when all those who have had their covid shots suddenly are back to believing they need to wear masks and practice social distancing…you know, because it’s what the medical professionals say.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/06/25/delta-who-urges-fully-vaccinated-people-to-continue-to-wear-masks-as-variant-spreads.html
 

If you don’t support people doing what they believe is right for themselves but at the same time are picking and choosing what you do vs what medical professionals want you to do, then you’re the problem.  

Oh goody, another pilot who know more about immunology than immunologists and doctors.

Would you extend the same level of credence to a doctor who read about aviation on the internet? Would you believe a guy who flew jets for 20 years, or a guy who googled an article about lift and drag?

Dunning Kruger on full display in this thread.

 

 

Edited by pawnman
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11 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

If you don’t support people doing what they believe is right for themselves but at the same time are picking and choosing what you do vs what medical professionals want you to do, then you’re the problem.  

This argument is the perfect justification for anti-Vax moms who believe, despite evidence, that vaccines cause autism. Because feelings matter more than data!

You have to realize that the whole of science is not just a liberal propaganda machine. While you may be correct that some organizations are biased, it doesn’t invalidate properly conducted studies.

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6 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Oh goody, another pilot who know more about immunology than immunologists and doctors.

Would you extend the same level of credence to a doctor who read about aviation on the internet? Would ypu believe a guy who flew jets for 20 years, or a guy who googled an article about lift and drag?

Dunning Kruger on full display in this thread.

 

 

Says the Nav who would intentionally seek out those not wearing a mask who haven’t had the shot and issue punishment under Article 15…

Or am I just “trolling you”?  Even though you didn’t even comment on the substance of the article I just posted…

Let me know when you agree with the medical professionals and start wearing a mask again everywhere you go.  

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7 minutes ago, Negatory said:

This argument is the perfect justification for anti-Vax moms who believe, despite evidence, that vaccines cause autism. Because feelings matter more than data!

You have to realize that the whole of science is not just a liberal propaganda machine. While you may be correct that some organizations are biased, it doesn’t invalidate properly conducted studies.

Nah, it just shows the hypocrisy of you and others.  You pick and choose info/advice from medical professionals and then get mad when others do the same.  Hypocrisy at its finest.

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25 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Nah, it just shows the hypocrisy of you and others.  You pick and choose info/advice from medical professionals and then get mad when others do the same.  Hypocrisy at its finest.

No, I choose to get my data from a wide cohort of studies. I deliberately do NOT pick and choose. This included me looking very closely into things like hydroxychloriquine and mask usage. And when I find out that over 90% of them agree that one thing is more likely than the other, I go with that.

Science is not some way to just pick and choose whatever you want while ignoring the other side. It’s humanity’s best method to settle emotional debates - like the one you are trying to have right now.

Edited by Negatory
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12 minutes ago, Negatory said:

No, I choose to get my data from a wide cohort of studies. I deliberately do NOT pick and choose. This included me looking very closely into things like hydroxychloriquine and mask usage. And when I find out that over 90% of them agree that one thing is more likely than the other, I go with that.

Science is not some way to just pick and choose whatever you want while ignoring the other side. It’s humanity’s best method to settle emotional debates - like the one you are trying to have right now.

The difference between me and others is that I support people making their own decisions on what’s best for them…do you?

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28 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

The difference between me and others is that I support people making their own decisions on what’s best for them…do you?

Based on no data, because by my count, you've discounted every source of data.

You don't trust the federal government (while employed by the federal government...interesting irony there).

You don't trust the CDC.

You don't trust the NIH.

You don't trust the FDA.

You don't trust the vaccine manufacturers.

You don't trust the data from state and local governments.

You don't trust the WHO.

I'm just curious what actual information you do trust to make these decisions.  I'm also curious if you'd have the same disdain for medical professionals if you were being treated for something other than Covid.  Would you go on Google and second-guess every decision your oncologist made?  Maybe you'd argue with the x-ray technician about your kid's broken arm?

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Based on no data, because by my count, you've discounted every source of data.

You don't trust the federal government (while employed by the federal government...interesting irony there).

You don't trust the CDC.

You don't trust the NIH.

You don't trust the FDA.

You don't trust the vaccine manufacturers.

You don't trust the data from state and local governments.

You don't trust the WHO.

I'm just curious what actual information you do trust to make these decisions.  I'm also curious if you'd have the same disdain for medical professionals if you were being treated for something other than Covid.  Would you go on Google and second-guess every decision your oncologist made?  Maybe you'd argue with the x-ray technician about your kid's broken arm?

Lol. Being employed by the Fed makes me trust them way less. I see first hand now how under resourced, understaffed and incompetent the majority of offices are in the Fed every day. Just look at the What's wrong with the AF thread and speak no further. 

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Based on no data, because by my count, you've discounted every source of data.

You don't trust the federal government (while employed by the federal government...interesting irony there).

You don't trust the CDC.

You don't trust the NIH.

You don't trust the FDA.

You don't trust the vaccine manufacturers.

You don't trust the data from state and local governments.

You don't trust the WHO.

I'm just curious what actual information you do trust to make these decisions.  I'm also curious if you'd have the same disdain for medical professionals if you were being treated for something other than Covid.  Would you go on Google and second-guess every decision your oncologist made?  Maybe you'd argue with the x-ray technician about your kid's broken arm?

It’s scary how much you trust them. 

California public health experts were telling people to not lay down on the beach to prevent COVID infection. Fauci openly lied to you on national tv. 
 

And yet you hand them your freedoms and berate other Americans who don’t do the same. Sad. 

Edited by BashiChuni
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