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For anyone who has been convinced that "The Vaccine is safer than COVID."

Researchers at University of California have found that teens are more likely to experience Cardiac Adverse Events (CAE or myocarditis) from the vaccine than they are to experience hospitalization from having COVID.

The research paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

Why? Why would the vaccine cause more problems in young men with no comorbidities than COVID does?

Our government says it doesn't and that it is completely safe? Who do you believe?

Why is the CDC providing lower estimates while real research presents significantly higher numbers?

"Our post-second-dose-vaccination rates of CAE among adolescent boys aged 12-15 was 162.2/million which exceeded the rates reported by the CDC[2,6] by 143-280% (2.4-3.8 times). Among boys age 16-17, our estimate was 94.0/million, 31.5-41% higher than the CDC estimate. For girls 12-15 years old, our rate was 13.0/million, which was 43-100% higher that the CDC’s estimate.[2,6] Among girls 16-17, our estimate was 13.4/million, which was 47-65% higher than the CDC’s estimate."

"Our report found post-vaccination CAE rates following dose two of 162.2 and 94.0/million for boys 12-15 and 16-17, respectively. For boys with no underlying health conditions, the chance of either CAE, or hospitalization for CAE, after their second dose of mRNA vaccination are considerably higher than their 120-day risk of COVID-19 hospitalization, even at times of peak disease prevalence. The long-term consequences of this vaccine-associated cardiac inflammation are not yet fully defined and should be studied. In lieu of pediatric vaccination mandates, the US may: 1) consider gathering data on previous infection in this age group and/or 2) follow the example of Germany,[31] Sweden [32], Norway [33] and the WHO[34] and hold off on definitively recommending vaccination of low-risk children against COVID-19, or 3) offer one dose to adolescents as the UK has just announced [35] while more information about risks, benefits, harms and alternative dosing or vaccination strategies are studied and considered."

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-09-11 at 5.46.03 PM.png

Edited by torqued
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2 hours ago, torqued said:

For anyone who has been convinced that "The Vaccine is safer than COVID."

Researchers at University of California have found that teens are more likely to experience Cardiac Adverse Events (CAE or myocarditis) from the vaccine than they are to experience hospitalization from having COVID.

The research paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1

Why? Why would the vaccine cause more problems in young men with no comorbidities than COVID does?

Our government says it doesn't and that it is completely safe? Who do you believe?

Why is the CDC providing lower estimates while real research presents significantly higher numbers?

"Our post-second-dose-vaccination rates of CAE among adolescent boys aged 12-15 was 162.2/million which exceeded the rates reported by the CDC[2,6] by 143-280% (2.4-3.8 times). Among boys age 16-17, our estimate was 94.0/million, 31.5-41% higher than the CDC estimate. For girls 12-15 years old, our rate was 13.0/million, which was 43-100% higher that the CDC’s estimate.[2,6] Among girls 16-17, our estimate was 13.4/million, which was 47-65% higher than the CDC’s estimate."

"Our report found post-vaccination CAE rates following dose two of 162.2 and 94.0/million for boys 12-15 and 16-17, respectively. For boys with no underlying health conditions, the chance of either CAE, or hospitalization for CAE, after their second dose of mRNA vaccination are considerably higher than their 120-day risk of COVID-19 hospitalization, even at times of peak disease prevalence. The long-term consequences of this vaccine-associated cardiac inflammation are not yet fully defined and should be studied. In lieu of pediatric vaccination mandates, the US may: 1) consider gathering data on previous infection in this age group and/or 2) follow the example of Germany,[31] Sweden [32], Norway [33] and the WHO[34] and hold off on definitively recommending vaccination of low-risk children against COVID-19, or 3) offer one dose to adolescents as the UK has just announced [35] while more information about risks, benefits, harms and alternative dosing or vaccination strategies are studied and considered."

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2021-09-11 at 5.46.03 PM.png

This one was more fun than the last ones. Make sure to pass this message on to whoever sent you the study!

Did you know that teenage boys around the age of 15 actually normally have Cardiac Adverse Events (CAEs) at a rate of ~140/million without any shots whatsoever? I didn’t either, but it’s true. If you look at females age 13-15, they’re at just about 25/million (this is higher than the COVID study lol). That puts the study’s incidence rate at… just about normal. TLDR this study does not present any evidence that COVID vaccination has any effect on standard CAE rates for adolescents.

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.116.005306

The authors of your quoted study never do what’s actually important: compare CAE rate of unvaccinated boys to CAE rates of those that got vaccines. Instead he compares potatoes to tomatoes and looks at CAE rates of boys with the vaccine compared to the chances they have a reported COVID hospitalization. Those logically are not an actual good scientific comparison.

If he actually wrote this study fairly, it would say “CAE rates of vaccinated boys aged 12-15 are roughly similar to the unvaccinated population.”

Here’s the graph from the study on baseline CAE rates:

390BA0F3-24A0-48F1-B144-5551C03CB0BD.thumb.jpeg.bfa44979f064d4c4a0855ee3f33f80fb.jpeg
Or, the top commenter on your linked study more eloquently said:

Arola et al. show that the incidence of myocarditis is in the vicinity of 140 per year per million boys aged 15 (in girls, and other boys, the incidence is roughly an order of magnitude smaller). By neglecting the prior probability of myocarditis in all persons, not just those being vaccinated, the authors render their conclusions completely untenable. In other words, while the risk of hospitalization from COVID in boys is arguably smaller than the risk from myocarditis, there is no evidence that vaccination status affects the myocarditis risk.“

Edited by Negatory
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Now I will say that the CDCs analysis of VAERS shows that there may actually be an increased chance of myopericarditis for teenage boys. It looks like it might even be a real effect that should be looked into, and we should consider the risk.

But the point of your post was to question CDC integrity. The study you posted did not do anything to support your claim that the CDC is intentionally obscuring data.

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And here is an actually well conducted study that actually sets up a proper control:

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475

Preliminary analysis shows that myocarditis and swollen lymph nodes increase in the vaccinated group. But if you want to claim that, I assume you’ll also note:

Vaccination was substantially protective against adverse events such as anemia, acute kidney injury, intracranial hemorrhage, and lymphopenia”

Now let’s continue this conversation using good data.

48B11D23-FBBC-4E7D-BE39-43BEB73A8C0D.thumb.jpeg.1b5937f76e7803d8a35d6f577b597b40.jpeg

Edited by Negatory
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5 minutes ago, Negatory said:

Now I will say that the CDCs analysis of VAERS shows that there may actually be an increased chance of myopericarditis for teenage boys. It looks like it might even be a real effect that should be looked into, and we should consider the risk.

But the point of your post was to question CDC integrity. The study you posted did not do anything to support your claim that the CDC is intentionally obscuring data.

Your first response was a copy and paste of another comment stating that there is no evidence that the vaccine increases the risk of heart problems.

Then, your very next comment states that that there may actually be and increased chance of heart problems and that we should consider the risk.

Which is it?

Your responses immediately brought this quote to mind. Not accusing you of it, it's just amusing.

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed."

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And here is an actually well conducted study that actually sets up a proper control:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110475
Preliminary analysis shows that myocarditis and swollen lymph nodes increase in the vaccinated group. But if you want to claim that, I assume you’ll also note:
“Vaccination was substantially protective against adverse events such as anemia, acute kidney injury, intracranial hemorrhage, and lymphopenia”
Now let’s continue this conversation using good data.
48B11D23-FBBC-4E7D-BE39-43BEB73A8C0D.thumb.jpeg.1b5937f76e7803d8a35d6f577b597b40.jpeg
I definitely had a swollen lymphnode a week after my first pfizer shot. I could barely touch my right armpit. Hurt like a some-beach.
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3 minutes ago, TheNewGazmo said:

I definitely had a swollen lymphnode a week after my first pfizer shot. I could barely touch my right armpit. Hurt like a some-beach.

That's a little disconcerting. Did you ever find out why? I recommend googling "swollen armpit lymphnodes" extensively to see what conditions could cause this. You know... conditions that might have developed after getting the vaccine. Purely coincidentally, of course.

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That's a little disconcerting. Did you ever find out why? I recommend googling "swollen armpit lymphnodes" extensively to see what conditions could cause this. You know... conditions that might have developed after getting the vaccine. Purely coincidentally, of course.
I did. Apparently it's "normal" and means the vaccine is "working". Haven't gotten my second shot yet. I was supposed to get it a week ago, but have been on the road with my airline job and have put it off a bit. I have been a little leary about the second since it is supposedly worse than the first one. Looks like the ANG deadline is 2 Dec to be fully vaccinated. What's creapy is that Walgreen's system updated ASIMS for me automatically. Didn't know they were linked somehow.
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22 minutes ago, torqued said:

Your first response was a copy and paste of another comment stating that there is no evidence that the vaccine increases the risk of heart problems.

Then, your very next comment states that that there may actually be and increased chance of heart problems and that we should consider the risk.

Which is it?

Your responses immediately brought this quote to mind. Not accusing you of it, it's just amusing.

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed."

My first response was 100% written by me. Show me anywhere on the internet it’s copied. Are you referencing the portion of the post that I clearly say is a quote?

There is no evidence presented in your non peer-reviewed, flawed study that the vaccine specifically causes increased CAEs in teen males. The purpose of my post was primarily to point out your issues with sources.

But because I actually like science, I looked into the actual hypothesis of whether or not CAEs increase with the vaccine compared to the unvaccinated (your study never looked at this). And I looked into whether vaccination is worse than a COVID infection. When I found that it may actually be true, I said so and cited an actually well conducted, peer-reviewed study.

And here’s the results for an actual study that compares effects of Covid infection to Covid vaccination:

FFF89294-6222-480C-9657-E3AFB400CD6C.webp.54dc70215701e43167715eb32dca286d.webp

You’ll note there is a significant increase of lymphadenopathy - or swollen lymph nodes. But you’ll also notice that every other deleterious effect is less prevalent in the vaccinated group.

And here’s the study showing COVID vaccine effects vs control, which is the uninflected population (again, you ignored it in the last one):

7F633552-EB52-4770-903C-64CC6B9B9E90.thumb.jpeg.8b548340217d151e20af7cf5745fda98.jpeg

You’ll note that the increase myocarditis was 21 in the vaccinated group vs 6 in the control group. You’ll see multiple small statistics like this, including a significant reduction of kidney injury (20 vs 45), arthritis (64 vs 70), intracranial hemorrhage (13 v 30), and arrythmia (298 v 378). But I didn’t see your post about all of the unexpected benefits of the shot?

 

Edited by Negatory
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23 minutes ago, torqued said:

"To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again: and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself -- that was the ultimate subtlety: consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed."

And your response, inability to address my thought out response, and ultimately you topping it off with this self righteous quote reminded me of an old favorite:

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.” 

See also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

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1 minute ago, Negatory said:

My first response was 100% written by me. Show me anywhere on the internet it’s copied. Are you referencing the portion of the post that I clearly say is a quote?

There is no evidence presented in your non peer-reviewed, flawed study that the vaccine specifically causes increased CAEs in teen males. The purpose of my post was primarily to point out your issues with sources.

But because I actually like science, I looked into the actual hypothesis of whether or not CAEs increase with the vaccine compared to the unvaccinated (your study never looked at this). And I looked into whether vaccination is worse than a COVID infection. When I found that it may actually be true, I said so and cited an actually well conducted, peer-reviewed study.

 

I was just pointing out that your entire argument was lifted from the first comment on the link I posted. Please don't pretend you put on your internet sleuthing hat and searched it out. Minor critique.It really doesn't matter

What does matter is that I apparently didn't prove my point that vaccines present an increased heart problems risk to your satisfaction with the link I provided.

So you went and found another link, that you like better, that says vaccines present an increased risk of heart problems.

Ok. You win.

Uh, Thanks?

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15 minutes ago, Negatory said:

And your response, inability to address my thought out response, and ultimately you topping it off with this self righteous quote reminded me of an old favorite:

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.” 

See also:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

Did you not see the part where I said I wasn't accusing you of anything in the quote? How is that self-righteous? When you contradicted yourself, apparently unaware, it just made me think of it. Kind of makes the "ignorance" jab a bit ironic, does it not? lol

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Almost like different states, regions, and cities are being affected differently...

Almost like it doesn’t matter what human intervention we take….the rates change due to seasonality regardless of bullshit business closures, idiotic masking of healthy people, and vax rates…..hmmmmmmmmm

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Almost like different states, regions, and cities are being affected differently...

Almost like applying a universal vaccine mandate for everyone, everywhere as if they were all being affected the same doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

 

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56 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Almost like it doesn’t matter what human intervention we take….the rates change due to seasonality regardless of bullshit business closures, idiotic masking of healthy people, and vax rates…..hmmmmmmmmm

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/12/health/us-coronavirus-sunday/index.html

Or maybe it's exactly human intervention that's preventing some states from being overwhelmed. 

Nah...I'm sure it's seasonal. 600k people killed each year is a small price to pay for you to puff out your chest about "much freedoms".

 

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1 hour ago, pawnman said:

https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/12/health/us-coronavirus-sunday/index.html

Or maybe it's exactly human intervention that's preventing some states from being overwhelmed. 

Nah...I'm sure it's seasonal. 600k people killed each year is a small price to pay for you to puff out your chest about "much freedoms".

 

Ok smart guy explain Sweden and Denmark? 
 

you’re also pretty fragile for giving neg reps to opinions you don’t like. Very navigator-esque of you!

how much data do you need to see to admit you’re fucking wrong? Masks don’t work. Proven. Lockdowns don’t work. Proven. 

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6 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Ok smart guy explain Sweden and Denmark? 
 

you’re also pretty fragile for giving neg reps to opinions you don’t like. Very navigator-esque of you!

how much data do you need to see to admit you’re fucking wrong? Masks don’t work. Proven. Lockdowns don’t work. Proven. 

69C999E8-FCFA-4DAD-AD61-C6138A9FEBB4.jpeg

C0A8DDEF-9FB4-4B0F-BB01-1F8E3478EBB0.jpeg

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So Bashi's public health advice is just spit into each other's mouths until everyone gets covid, everyone who dies is an acceptable loss?

Pretty arrogant.  But maybe it's that single-seat mentality. Fuck anyone who isn't you...you got yours, your own risk, everyone else just shouldn't be old and fat, it's their own fault.

Brilliant.

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Did I say that? You have no nuance or critical thinking everything is either hard right or left. God damn man

 

no one holding your POV can explain the fucking data. Ironic because y’all SCREAM “follow the science”

Edited by BashiChuni
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On 9/10/2021 at 3:38 PM, DirkDiggler said:

it went on to give a gist of if disapproved and the individual still refuses the shot they’ll be administratively separated from the service.

 

What are the details of that separation? 

Non-voluntary separation with the pay that goes with it? Honorable discharge? ADSCs removed?

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