Jump to content

COVID-19 (Aka China Virus)


Orbit

Recommended Posts

On 9/6/2021 at 2:15 PM, pawnman said:

I don't have any more arguments for you.  The vaccines reduce the spread. 

LOL. 3 minutes, 29 seconds.

How are you not embarrassed by mindlessly parroting these "scientific truths" that are constantly changing? Try to keep up.

 

Edited by torqued
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, pawnman said:

Agreed.  So...are you now saying you support Covid vaccinations?

Support vaccinations how?  Support making them mandatory in general?  Support making them mandatory for the military?  Support making them mandatory for private organizations?

I'll start with the easy ones first.  The military and private organizations can mandate whatever they want.  If people don't like it, they can leave.  We saw this exact same thing with the anthrax program, which had some shady history associated with it, but I think COVID, while not anywhere near as lethal as an inhalation anthrax infection, is at least tangible. You can read about the anthrax program here:  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447151/  It boggles my mind that some military members don't want the COVID shot, but never had an issue with the anthrax vaccine.  Read that article above and you may have second thoughts.  I think the COVID jab is the least of our issues.  I get why the DoD wants this mandatory.  It can take even a young person out for weeks even if it doesn't kill them.  Lots of countries are making this mandatory for certain people; it's not just us. 

For the general public?  Unfortunately we're probably the only country in the world who's made this political.  There are going to be some people who never get this vaccine based off of political beliefs while somehow forgetting who was taking credit for vaccine development a year ago.

I didn't want the shot when it came available last winter.  I took a chance, rolled the dice and waited until last month to get mine.  Everyone else in my family except my kids younger than 12 got vaccinated before I did.  I wanted a few more crash-test dummies out there ahead of me before I was comfortable enough to get it.  I'm due to get my second next week.

With that being said, it's hard to figure out why vaccinated people are still getting infected.  Is it because of Delta?  Is it because of the unvaccinated?  Does the vaccine not work well enough?  Do we need a third shot?  While it's easy to lay blame on the unvaccinated, no one really has a clear answer to any of those questions.  The only data we do have thus far is that very, very few vaccinated people are getting seriously ill and dying from it.  Is that enough to sway people into getting the shot?  Apparently it's still not enough for some.  We don't know why younger people and now more children are getting more seriously ill from this compared to before.  Is it because we've become more complacent with this thing this summer and have gone back to "normal life"?  People are traveling.  People are going on vacation.  People are attending more mass gatherings.  TSA throughput is almost what it was in 2019.  The airports are packed and flights are full.  I've seen it for myself.  Where are people going? Although not as large, we had a spike last year around the same exact time.  Despite their high vaccination rates, Israel is going through a huge spike right now because most of their people between 12-25 years old chose not to get vaccinated.  I think we're seeing the same issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, ecugringo said:

If they didn't know the vaccine would wane after 6 months, what else do they not know about it?

The winning Powerball numbers for this week. 

The ratio of unicorns to leprechauns was probably off so that may be a factor.  

I seem to recall during vax development that boosters was put out as likely.  Like yearly.  Like forever. 

Anyway, I'm coming in hot because all I see these days is spouting of some podcast as fact, some media guy as gospel, etc., and people looking around at each other, hey, I heard something, do you hear something?  Did your something come from a lefty or righty cause I only trust talk radio people that say they got covid and say they drank blue urinal cake water cause that shit kills anything.

Try going to the sources; perhaps a peer reviewed journal and published scientific papers for example.  I mean if you want to quote me as fact, try 8-12-22-53-62 PB 11

And by god if those are the numbers.....

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, TheNewGazmo said:

.....

With that being said, it's hard to figure out why vaccinated people are still getting infected.

Well, I think that when we receive an immunization, it only works once the bug is inside our body.  That means we got to be infected.  Now that vax should have taught our system to mount an assault based on enemy recce, building of offensive forces, and deployment into battle.  So, for your fighting forces to work, you gotta get infected, you gotta get invaded.  When you take that test, "Was I Invaded?" it will say yep, you got it.  Will you have symptoms, yes, you're infected.  Will they kill you, chances are much more in your favor because your systems used the vax as an early detection system and the vax installed plans for your military industrial complex to rapidly build that fighting force.  Now sometimes the enemy changes uniforms, or learns new commando tactics.  Your body needs to know how to build new fighting forces to counter and that comes with a vax booster plan with with new recce cards and new MIC plans.  Sure you could try to tough it out on your own, and maybe those new bug commandos damage your lungs. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/6/2021 at 4:22 PM, brabus said:

I already did that, with the data that’s available (my risk from COVID vs. VAERS). It’s about equal risk, slightly favoring not taking the vaccine, for the < 50 age group with no underlying med conditions. The bigger elephant in the room is what are the potential long term adverse reactions? Nobody knows, and that’s the biggest factor for many. No one can make any statistically significant argument that immediate adverse reactions equal the driving decision to not get the vaccine, but why get a vaccine that does so little for you (again, the healthy/young crowd specifically) in trade for an unknown longterm risk (could be very low, but could be bad). Also, if you’ve had COVID, you are significantly better protected than if you just had the vaccine, so no scientific reason to get the vaccine if you’ve managed to already have COVID. 

None of this is a “no brainer;” it’s dependent on many variables that differ from person to person. To say COVID vaccination is a blanket “obvious,” “no brainer,” etc. decision one way or the other for everyone out there is ignorant, selfish, or both.

Yeah, great question, what are the long term effects of COVID? Because mid term and permanent damage is way worse than vaccination:

FB2D0FD8-755B-4DAD-8084-A1E38071AEAC.webp.24d715911f43961eceb6c1be658a7921.webp
 

Oh, the one thing that is higher risk in COVID vaccinated folks is Lymphadenopathy. Which is swollen lymph nodes. But enjoy the orders of magnitude more likely Kidney injuries, arrhythmia, and intracranial hemorrhaging because it “wasn’t worth the risk.”

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

Don't be gullible. It's the same recycled headline and hysteria. The AP is getting lazy.

2018:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-5279685/California-hospitals-looks-like-flu-war-zone.html

2019:

https://www.dispatchhealth.com/blog/ers-are-overwhelmed-with-flu-patients-mobile-urgent-care-is-the-solution/

January 2020:

https://www.foxla.com/news/flu-tent-set-up-at-loma-linda-as-cases-on-rise-oc-suffers-first-flu-death-of-season

Also, you can cross off "Vaccines stop the spread" as one of the arguments virtual-signalling pro-vaxxer's can use.

 

Edited by torqued
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Like a baby. You should try it.
1. Exercise
2. Only read the news. Never watch it.
3. No screens after 10pm.
4. Stop being afraid. You're going to die anyway.


“Only read the news. Never watch it.”

…says the guy who literally posted a news video you have to watch in response to my news link that you have to read.

I’m vaccinated since Feb, I do all of your advice above and I’m and worry free amigo. It’s been really nice, thank you.

My wife works in healthcare. Her ICU friends are throwing in the towel out of the frustration of watching unvaccinated middle age people show up there, and we aren’t even in a hotspot.

Hospitals don’t pay techs very much, Some of them can make about the same amount in retail and not have to wear a spacesuit and watch people die.

The healthcare shortage will soon make the AF pilot crisis look like child’s play. It’s coming. There will be signs like the ones at Wendy’s apologizing for being short staffed, except it’ll be while you’re waiting hours for emergency medical care.

I believe at some point a week or so ago in one of these ridiculous threads people never thought they would have to ration healthcare.

But here we are, in Idaho where the vax rate is really low, the hospitals are really full and they are beginning to ration healthcare according to the Associated Press article I read.

But yeah sure, I’m gullible.
  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

47 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

 


“Only read the news. Never watch it.”

…says the guy who literally posted a news video you have to watch in response to my news link that you have to read.

I’m vaccinated since Feb, I do all of your advice above and I’m and worry free amigo. It’s been really nice, thank you.

My wife works in healthcare. Her ICU friends are throwing in the towel out of the frustration of watching unvaccinated middle age people show up there, and we aren’t even in a hotspot.

Hospitals don’t pay techs very much, Some of them can make about the same amount in retail and not have to wear a spacesuit and watch people die.

The healthcare shortage will soon make the AF pilot crisis look like child’s play. It’s coming. There will be signs like the ones at Wendy’s apologizing for being short staffed, except it’ll be while you’re waiting hours for emergency medical care.

I believe at some point a week or so ago in one of these ridiculous threads people never thought they would have to ration healthcare.

But here we are, in Idaho where the vax rate is really low, the hospitals are really full and they are beginning to ration healthcare according to the Associated Press article I read.

But yeah sure, I’m gullible.

 

I should have said it differently. Don't sit and watch cable news and think you're informed. Televised news is designed to appeal to your emotions more so than written articles. I posted a Youtube clip that was embedded in an article of the CDC Director just so you can see and hear the same people that got you worked up over this are now walking back and changing the narrative. It won't be long until all your other narratives get the same treatment.

In one sentence, you're "worry free". Immediately following that declaration, there's all this hand-wringing, stress, and frustration over the unvaccinated. You say you're not worried, yet every single thing you post outside of that statement indicates otherwise.

"The healthcare shortage is going to make the pilot shortage look like child's play!"

"You're gonna wait hours and hours for the ER!"

"We're rationing healthcare! The AP says so!"

Relax, man. You are going to be fine. Your wife is going to be fine.

Did you not read the articles I posted links to from years prior? It's the same exact shit. Rationed healthcare, overflowing ERs, stressed healthcare workers... etc, etc, etc. All of it occurred prior to 2020, and will occur years from now. You can't run a healthcare system or any other industry with huge amounts of excess capacity (military industrial businesses excepted). There are ebbs and flows in demand across every industry.

Edited by torqued
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites



Relax, man. You are going to be fine. Your wife is going to be fine.



Oh thank God.

I’m looking forward to the dinner conversation tonight.

How was your day honey?

“Well I got another briefing that the COVID case rate is going up, they briefed us on the situation down south where they’re having to open up conference rooms for all of the patients again. Idaho is starting to ration care. Pretty much everyone coming in is unvaccinated. Three ICU nurses gave their notice and we don’t have the experience in the ER staff to backfill them.”

Oh. Well, don’t worry about it honey everyone is overreacting. It’s all gonna be fine, torqued said so.

“Who’s torqued?”

Oh he’s a guy on Baseops. He seems really in tune with what’s going on. Tell the people at the hospital to exercise more and stop watching the news.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

“Well I got another briefing that the COVID case rate is going up, they briefed us on the situation down south where they’re having to open up conference rooms for all of the patients again. Idaho is starting to ration care. Pretty much everyone coming in is unvaccinated. Three ICU nurses gave their notice and we don’t have the experience in the ER staff to backfill them.”

 

You just now used statements from articles you earlier quoted to fabricate an entire future conversation with your wife to convince me that you've got a handle on reality.

It's a bit of a stretch, bro.

Don't blame your wife for things you clearly read online.

Edited by torqued
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You just now used statements from articles you earlier quoted to fabricate an entire future conversation with your wife to convince me that you've got a handle on reality.
It's a bit of a stretch, bro.
Don't blame your wife for things you clearly read online.


Nice deflection.

My future conversation is absolutely hypothetical and meant to be sarcastic in nature. I absolutely rolled in the things we have been talking about here.

My point was 100% about trusting torqued over healthcare professionals.

We have had multiple conversations regarding the briefings she gets.

Come on over for dinner. It gets to be a broken f***ing record regarding the positivity rates and hospitalization rates and the vaccine take rate/hospitalization rate ratios.

Guess what? It’s the same stuff that the AP is reporting, only I often get it a few days prior from a health care professional before it hits the news.

These are all topics she has brought up in the past. She’s not making this shit up.

Just yesterday she told me that a handful of staff members either elected to work elsewhere or retire early. Others are leaving because they don’t want to get vaccinated.

Either way, the number of cases and hospitalizations fluctuates but the number of healthcare workers just keeps decreasing.

You can build the biggest hospital (or Air Force) in the world, but you have to staff it with qualified people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Scooter14 said:

 


Nice deflection.

My future conversation is absolutely hypothetical and meant to be sarcastic in nature. I absolutely rolled in the things we have been talking about here.

My point was 100% about trusting torqued over healthcare professionals.

We have had multiple conversations regarding the briefings she gets.

Come on over for dinner. It gets to be a broken f***ing record regarding the positivity rates and hospitalization rates and the vaccine take rate/hospitalization rate ratios.

Guess what? It’s the same stuff that the AP is reporting, only I often get it a few days prior from a health care professional before it hits the news.

These are all topics she has brought up in the past. She’s not making this shit up.

Just yesterday she told me that a handful of staff members either elected to work elsewhere or retire early. Others are leaving because they don’t want to get vaccinated.

Either way, the number of cases and hospitalizations fluctuates but the number of healthcare workers just keeps decreasing.

You can build the biggest hospital (or Air Force) in the world, but you have to staff it with qualified people.
 

 

I would love to come over for dinner, but you strike me as a vegan. (I, kid)

Honest question: Why would her coworkers, who have the same job, and see the same things she does, refuse to get vaccinated?

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Scooter14 said:

 


Nice deflection.

My future conversation is absolutely hypothetical and meant to be sarcastic in nature. I absolutely rolled in the things we have been talking about here.

My point was 100% about trusting torqued over healthcare professionals.

We have had multiple conversations regarding the briefings she gets.

Come on over for dinner. It gets to be a broken f***ing record regarding the positivity rates and hospitalization rates and the vaccine take rate/hospitalization rate ratios.

Guess what? It’s the same stuff that the AP is reporting, only I often get it a few days prior from a health care professional before it hits the news.

These are all topics she has brought up in the past. She’s not making this shit up.

Just yesterday she told me that a handful of staff members either elected to work elsewhere or retire early. Others are leaving because they don’t want to get vaccinated.

Either way, the number of cases and hospitalizations fluctuates but the number of healthcare workers just keeps decreasing.

You can build the biggest hospital (or Air Force) in the world, but you have to staff it with qualified people.
 

 

I think the problem with your approach Scooter is from the outside looking it, it sounds like your only real interest here is your wife bitching about having to do her job. At the end of the day though, your not in any danger, your wife is not, (presuming you both are vaccinated) so its hard to understand what your frustration is other than you wife doesn't get a 15 minute smoke break anymore. 

If you want to honestly posit that you feel terrible for the X number people going to the ER with COVID thats fine, but realize you are more worried about this pandemic than those people are. They weren't even worried enough to get the vaccine. So at the end of the day you are empathetically stressing about something that really has no bearing on you. 

This isn't meant to be a hostile critique but just a recommendation for how you should consider your approach. 

Edited by FLEA
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would love to come over for dinner, but you strike me as a vegan. (I, kid)
Honest question: Why would her coworkers, who have the same job, and see the same things she does, refuse to get vaccinated?


You’re more than welcome to come over anytime, and I 100% could never survive as a vegan so bring something to grill.

Honest opinion: I think (this is just my opinion) the demographic that is hesitant is younger females who believe the verdict is still out on reproductive effects. There’s not a lot of holdouts, but there are a few.

Mind you, this is in the northeast. I just saw a CDC slide this AM about this area having a very high vaccination rate, probably the highest in the country.

My wife has a friend down south and was shocked at the low take rates at the hospitals down there. A lot of the consensus down there was “ive been working in crowded COVID wings for 18 months and I’m fine, why do I need a vaccine?”

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong and it’s second and third hand from her and her friends, that’s just what I’m hearing.

Again, I don’t think a mandate is the right way to go, I just think the risk of developing long term complications from COVID is much higher than any risks associated with an mRNA vaccine and people need to understand the ramifications of their decision making process.

I feel like (another opinion) there was a very defined line and when the vaccine came out people started to fall on one side or the other very quickly. Many were undecided. But, as time went on the undecided chose the prevalent school of thought.

For example, when it first came out, my wife was one of the first. Her father is in a long term care facility and being vaccinated and able to see him was very important to her. Many of her colleagues got vaxxed right off the bat. Those who were undecided saw that and said “well, Karen and Rick got it two months ago, that’s when most side effects happen, they seem fine to me…meh, I guess I’ll get it too.”

Other places there was resistance, so when people didn’t get it the undecided said “well, Becky didn’t get it and she’s been around COVID for 18 months and she’s fine so i guess I won’t either.”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the problem with your approach Scooter is from the outside looking it, it sounds like your only real interest here is your wife bitching about having to do her job. At the end of the day though, your not in any danger, your wife is not, (presuming you both are vaccinated) so its hard to understand what your frustration is other than you wife doesn't get a 15 minute smoke break anymore. 
If you want to honestly posit that you feel terrible for the X number people going to the ER with COVID thats fine, but realize you are more worried about this pandemic than those people are. They weren't even worried enough to get the vaccine. So at the end of the day you are empathetically stressing about something that really has no bearing on you. 
This isn't meant to be a hostile critique but just a recommendation for how you should consider your approach. 


Valid points.

I’m honestly not stressed and she’s not bitching. I did not mean for it to come out that way.

Seeing and hearing what we both view as somewhat preventable is hard to see play out here and elsewhere.

Yes we are both vaxxed, we exercise, try to eat as well as we can and, to your point do not feel as though we are in any severe COVID danger.

I will feel bad for people if the census of the hospital is such that one cannot receive non-COVID care. I saw a story about a gentleman in a rural hospital in TX that died of some sort of gallbladder thing, completely preventable but they couldn’t fit him in to any hospital in Houston.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, torqued said:

Like a baby. You should try it.

1. Exercise

2. Only read the news. Never watch it.

3. No screens after 10pm.

4. Stop being afraid. You're going to die anyway.

100% on all four.

But also, why exercise? That is hard work. Why not just hope that you can rely on others to protect you by them making sacrifices...

Sounds a lot like people on extended unemployment and welfare. 

I miss that concept of personal responsibility. 

  • Like 2
  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Scooter14 said:

Again, I don’t think a mandate is the right way to go, I just think the risk of developing long term complications from COVID is much higher than any risks associated with an mRNA vaccine and people need to understand the ramifications of their decision making process.

I honestly didn't realize we agree on this. Mandates are not the way. That's really the crux, isn't it? If you're not going to force me to make the same life decisions as you, we can disagree indefinitely and nothing of consequence happens as we each assume responsibility for our own personal risk assessment.

I will concede that things may be far, far worse than I imagined. Someone waited "thousands of minutes" for a rural ER. I'm not laughing at the people waiting, I'm laughing at the media desperation.

Screen Shot 2021-09-08 at 4.12.55 PM.png

Edited by torqued
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I honestly didn't realize we agree on this. Mandates are not the way. That's really the crux, isn't it? If you're not going to force me to make the same life decisions as you, we can disagree indefinitely and nothing of consequence happens as we each assume responsibility for our own personal risk assessment.
I will concede that things may be far, far worse than I imagined. Someone waited "thousands of minutes" for a rural ER. I'm not laughing at the people waiting, I'm laughing at the media desperation.
495748725_ScreenShot2021-09-08at4_12_55PM.png.6e62bf6338ac033db1a1df6746db964c.png


We agree on almost all of it, to include the fact that the media sucks.

…until the consequences of those who get really sick due to no vaccine and flood the hospitals causes a lot of extra work and delays the treatment for cardiac patients, cancer patients, etc. and others that have other potentially life threatening illnesses.

I got a text from a buddy today who’s wife is a nurse at a local hospital.

20 COVID in the hospital
18 unvaxxed, 2 vaxxed.
2 of the unvaxxed on ventilators, in their 30s.

That sucks.

I know crowded hospitals and health care shortages have happened before as you pointed out but I personally feel like severe illness and hospitalization due to COVID is all but avoidable with the shot (in conjunction with exercise, Vitamin D, good sleep hygiene, etc.) and that allows the medical machine to keep moving. I know, big pharma and all but we are where we are.

If hospital overcrowding doesn’t happen and everything is running smoothly, I would not care about one’s choices at all….but even now it’s a choice (except mil soon) and all we can do is educate ourselves to what we think are the pros and cons and ORM it.

I’m gonna go get a steak.
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 9/7/2021 at 7:31 PM, torqued said:

Which of our pro-vax friends here disagrees with the ACLU?

The ACLU has said some silly stuff over the years, but that's something I agree with. I don't think it'll ever not be a shock to me that people (more like NPCs) can't understand that body autonomy trumps anything else with these purported medical procedures. (Whatabouters be stricken; a fetus is not part of a woman, it is its own human).

They have admitted they're done with the "carrot" approach and now are moving with the "stick" approach. Unfortunately for them, they can't even control a crime ridden diverscity, let alone the nation. I don't know how they think they'll enforce this tyranny when even 10 local bubbas know the home of every one of the area tyrants' family members and friends. Hubris is probably the answer, because as we know, the People don't need F-15s or nukes to take on a tyrannical government.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

The winning Powerball numbers for this week. 

The ratio of unicorns to leprechauns was probably off so that may be a factor.  

I seem to recall during vax development that boosters was put out as likely.  Like yearly.  Like forever. 

Anyway, I'm coming in hot because all I see these days is spouting of some podcast as fact, some media guy as gospel, etc., and people looking around at each other, hey, I heard something, do you hear something?  Did your something come from a lefty or righty cause I only trust talk radio people that say they got covid and say they drank blue urinal cake water cause that shit kills anything.

Try going to the sources; perhaps a peer reviewed journal and published scientific papers for example.  I mean if you want to quote me as fact, try 8-12-22-53-62 PB 11

And by god if those are the numbers.....

Cope. Instead of deflecting from @ecugringo's argument, try debating him on the merits. It is a genuine question, not a snide late night "comedy" talk show quip. For me a big one is this: genuinely, can they say this won't harm young men and women's reproductive system? It's already caused issues with women's menstrual cycles. It would be logical to presume it would also cause issues with the rest of their reproductive system. Young people want healthy children and to make a family, but the lies, coercion, and missing data are not convincing them to take this experimental drug. This is a big reason I'm seeing in those I work with as to why they're not taking it.

Edited by dogfish78
typo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dogfish78 said:

(Whatabouters be stricken; a fetus is not part of a woman, it is its own human).

Good thing we had someone bring up that totally clear entirely transferable argument about bodily autonomy. By the way the ACLU defines viability as 6-7 months, and therefore fights for that definition, if you’re gonna try to say the ACLU is on your side in this case while talking out of the other side of your mouth when it doesn’t suit you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...