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Finally done in Afghanistan?


FourFans130

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36 minutes ago, FLEA said:

I don't want to sound jaded by my guess is a good deal of these medals go out when there is significant media spotlight on these events. 

I can think of at least two DFCs that were laughable, but were absolutely ramrodded through for PA reasons. That said, neither are on the individual, they didn’t do anything poorly or wrong, just were used as a pawn in some politicized PA game. 
 

Also loved seeing command chiefs get bronze stars (who did nothing besides push queep inside the wire), meanwhile JTAC bros in the shit weren’t given squat because “well they weren’t here for a year like chief X”…go fuck yourself awards system. 

Edited by brabus
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It irks me to no end about the “just normal ops” line when looking at awarding medals to folks. By that logic, there should never be a medal awarded for any action short of self-sacrifice. Sal Giunta was just doing his job as an infantry NCO. Leo Thorsness just supported a rescue (that was unsuccessful and got an A-1 shot down). Tom Norris helped rescue some downed aircrew in a riverine environment well within a SEALs “normal ops”. Thomas Payne helped the core activity of Delta by doing a hostage rescue…pretty “normal ops”. See how monumentally stupid that sounds?

I’m not saying the actions from various aircrew at HKIA are MOH worthy. What I am saying is that there was some serious gallantry, skill, bravery, and perseverance to make things happen. That deserves to be honored officially in the form of medal awards.
 

I’ve got no connection to the C-17 community beyond riding as a pax a few times, but seeing what those guys did made me incredibly proud to be in the Air Force. Same goes for the Army helo guys, the Marines at the gates, etc. Massively proud of all these folks and their execution of “normal ops”.

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In my younger days I was a Flying Crew Chief, got awarded enlisted aircrew wings, it depended on the Organization only to be told by Chiefs in other squadrons to take them off my Fatigues or BDU's. Loved my job, it was an incentive to fly with the jet and get away from the home station drudgery. Then McPeak came and said no more, you're not part of the crew, you're not getting flight pay or hazard duty pay but you will still fly and take the same risks as everyone else, and stop going to the Flight Doc, just get Motrin like everyone else. 

My question during that awards ceremony with the four DFC's awarded and the FCC getting nothing why was he even on the stage? I bet he still had to go to work after that and cover his shift. I would have considered it a slap in the face. I bet his own leadership torpedoed it, MX supervision are petty MF'ers who probably said he was overdue training or doesn't ever go to squadron functions or the last time I saw him he needed a haircut. Now you know why MX troops get out in droves.  

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It irks me to no end about the “just normal ops” line when looking at awarding medals to folks. By that logic, there should never be a medal awarded for any action short of self-sacrifice. Sal Giunta was just doing his job as an infantry NCO. Leo Thorsness just supported a rescue (that was unsuccessful and got an A-1 shot down). Tom Norris helped rescue some downed aircrew in a riverine environment well within a SEALs “normal ops”. Thomas Payne helped the core activity of Delta by doing a hostage rescue…pretty “normal ops”. See how monumentally stupid that sounds?
I’m not saying the actions from various aircrew at HKIA are MOH worthy. What I am saying is that there was some serious gallantry, skill, bravery, and perseverance to make things happen. That deserves to be honored officially in the form of medal awards.
 
I’ve got no connection to the C-17 community beyond riding as a pax a few times, but seeing what those guys did made me incredibly proud to be in the Air Force. Same goes for the Army helo guys, the Marines at the gates, etc. Massively proud of all these folks and their execution of “normal ops”.

So minor side bar but I don’t mind airing this bad laundry…


A year ago a CW5 from 160th was awarded the highest military honor from the Norwegian military. First time it’s happened since WWII. It was only that award being given, that forced regiment to pony up some medals like ARCOMs for the rest of the guys on that event. Before his award went up on the radar ARCOMs weren’t even given to the crews.


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6 hours ago, Prosuper said:

In my younger days I was a Flying Crew Chief, got awarded enlisted aircrew wings, it depended on the Organization only to be told by Chiefs in other squadrons to take them off my Fatigues or BDU's. Loved my job, it was an incentive to fly with the jet and get away from the home station drudgery. Then McPeak came and said no more, you're not part of the crew, you're not getting flight pay or hazard duty pay but you will still fly and take the same risks as everyone else, and stop going to the Flight Doc, just get Motrin like everyone else. 

My question during that awards ceremony with the four DFC's awarded and the FCC getting nothing why was he even on the stage? I bet he still had to go to work after that and cover his shift. I would have considered it a slap in the face. I bet his own leadership torpedoed it, MX supervision are petty MF'ers who probably said he was overdue training or doesn't ever go to squadron functions or the last time I saw him he needed a haircut. Now you know why MX troops get out in droves.  

That’s an interesting historical background I’d never heard about, thanks for sharing. I’ve had many a discussion with great FCCs scratching our heads about why they were ineligible for things like AMs/AAMs. It’s  a double whammy because by missing out they’re leaving major promotion points on the table in a perpetually undermanned career field.

Also the reason the FCC was on stage is because the AC made it a point during his speech to bring him up there to highlight his contribution. In fact he said if he had a game ball he’d give it to the FCC. IMHO it was a genius way to make the whole chain of decision makers look inept, which I think was probably at least 50% of his intent.

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14 hours ago, Prosuper said:

In my younger days I was a Flying Crew Chief, got awarded enlisted aircrew wings, it depended on the Organization only to be told by Chiefs in other squadrons to take them off my Fatigues or BDU's. Loved my job, it was an incentive to fly with the jet and get away from the home station drudgery. Then McPeak came and said no more, you're not part of the crew, you're not getting flight pay or hazard duty pay but you will still fly and take the same risks as everyone else, and stop going to the Flight Doc, just get Motrin like everyone else. 

My question during that awards ceremony with the four DFC's awarded and the FCC getting nothing why was he even on the stage? I bet he still had to go to work after that and cover his shift. I would have considered it a slap in the face. I bet his own leadership torpedoed it, MX supervision are petty MF'ers who probably said he was overdue training or doesn't ever go to squadron functions or the last time I saw him he needed a haircut. Now you know why MX troops get out in droves.  

That's when gunship IOs, Illuminator Operators, who were A431s became loadmasters. Funny thing about that was they had actual inflight duties. Many medals were awarded to them over the years from AMs up to Silver Stars(Viet Nam). 

I wonder if that FCC was on the Flight Orders.

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Just now, jazzdude said:


 

 


Most likely yes but below the line as a MEP

 

Back in the day, the FCC filled out the 781 for the whole crew, also insured the 781 H,J,and A didn't turn into an abortion. 

My first supervisor when I first came in had a DFC, he was an FCC on a C-7 Caribou in Viet Nam. They went into places that C-130's couldn't. 

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4 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Back in the day, the FCC filled out the 781 for the whole crew, also insured the 781 H,J,and A didn't turn into an abortion. 

My FCC's still fill out the 781s excluding breaking out the individual aircrew times.

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4 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Back in the day, the FCC filled out the 781 for the whole crew, also insured the 781 H,J,and A didn't turn into an abortion. 

My first supervisor when I first came in had a DFC, he was an FCC on a C-7 Caribou in Viet Nam. They went into places that C-130's couldn't. 

I have a relative who served in Vietnam flying EB-66s (actual tail he flew is supposed to be the one in the museum at Wright Pat) out of Thailand. For reference the EB-66 is the central airframe in the movie Bat-21. He had many stories of his time over North Viet Nam/Hanoi and I have no doubt he earned his DFC and 2 AMs. Especially real missiles fired by real Migs at his aircraft. Not to mention the SAMs. He also flew B-52s for SAC in its heady days. Sadly, late stages of dementia have brought the stories to a stop.

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  • 4 weeks later...
22 minutes ago, SocialD said:

 

Strange, I can't seem to find that part that says we should have done it a decade prior. 

I always wonder what would have happened if we bagged Bin Laden in Tora Bora early in the game and if we would have gotten so far down the rabbit hole. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/18/2022 at 10:27 AM, fire4effect said:

"The interim report from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction called the US decision to withdraw -- conceived by the Trump administration in 2020 and implemented by the Biden administration in 2021 -- the "single most important factor" behind the collapse of the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces."

 

I love how the root cause of Afghanistan's collapse was "the United States left."

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3 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

I love how the root cause of Afghanistan's collapse was "the United States left."

Well, the root cause for the Taliban falling and a “democratic” Afghanistan taking place was the US invasion and occupation, so it’s not that surprising… 

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21 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

"The interim report from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction called the US decision to withdraw -- conceived by the Trump administration in 2020 and implemented by the Biden administration in 2021 -- the "single most important factor" behind the collapse of the Afghan National Defense and Security Forces."

 

I love how the root cause of Afghanistan's collapse was "the United States left."

And the democrats blaming the failure on Trump saying he made the deal and we had to stick to it. Out of all the Trump stuff Biden reversed that was the one and only thing he couldn't. 

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23 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

The interim report from the Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction........

The Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR) was founded in 2008.  Over the past 14 years, did their work drive any meaningful change?

Their reports were regularly quoted in the press.  It seems like they did good work.  But, the most recent reports sound as depressing as their early reports.  Since 2008, the reports always seemed to take on an almost absurdist tone, and never seemed to show that we actually learned anything.

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The Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction (SIGAR) was founded in 2008.  Over the past 14 years, did their work drive any meaningful change?
Their reports were regularly quoted in the press.  It seems like they did good work.  But, the most recent reports sound as depressing as their early reports.  Since 2008, the reports always seemed to take on an almost absurdist tone, and never seemed to show that we actually learned anything.

Or maybe we had such an absurd goal or lack of practical mission that it sounded like the broken record that was going on…
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