GA Aircraft Flown

[nsplayr]

Anyone flown or owned a Sportcruiser? I'm considering buying an aircraft with a couple of other pilots in my squadron to start a flying club. Pros/cons are appreciated for anyone who has flown one but especially if you've owned or worked on one. 🍺

Edited October 25, 2022 by nsplayr

[kaputt]

25 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Anyone flown or owned a Sportcruiser? I'm considering buying an aircraft with a couple of other pilots in my squadron to start a flying club. Pros/cons are appreciated for anyone who has flown one but especially if you've owned or worked on one. 🍺

I have just under 500 hours in one as an instructor. Really fun airplane; super nimble on the controls, but will bounce around a lot in turbulence. Tough for new pilots to get a hang of, but it will make you better at stick and rudder. Glass cockpit with Dynon is pretty nice if you get a new one. The old ones the Dynon stuff is pretty meh. 
 

Ours had a chute, which is a nice safety feature in my opinion. A lot of old timers will tell you Rotax is a joke, but I honestly think it’s a great engine. Super fuel efficient and ours was very reliable. Keep it away from avgas and run the appropriate mogas and it will be much happier. Avgas with the lead fouls them up and you have to change the oil a lot more often. Reduction gearbox is also nifty since the engine turns at a much higher rpm than the prop. Our gearbox was reliable but it does need a little extra maintenance attention. Single power lever with rotax is great as well. 

If you got some experienced guys they’ll just need to adjust to it being an LSA and how light it is, but it’s a good airplane and you’d have a lot of fun with it. 

[HeloDude]

36 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Anyone flown or owned a Sportcruiser? I'm considering buying an aircraft with a couple of other pilots in my squadron to start a flying club. Pros/cons are appreciated for anyone who has flown one but especially if you've owned or worked on one. 🍺

Is that a remotely piloted aircraft?  Asking for a friend.

[nsplayr]

@kaputt outstanding, good points on all, thanks homie.

We're looking for something to practice stick-and-rudder skills with, have fun, plus operate really cheaply. There are several people who potentially want to fly 150+ hours per year for hours-building purposes, so low GPH and lower fuel costs are key to meet our mission objective of not getting yelled too much by our wives 😆

Being able to hack instrument and commercial ratings in the plane we own is also a feature we're looking to have in whatever we buy - seems like the most common avionics configurations of the Sportcruiser fit that bill.

Do you just transport mogas to the plane when you go fly, or does your home base have mogas on the field? How have MX expenses been on the Rotax? One potentially interested pilot also happens to be an A&P, but he's never worked on that engine before and is curious if it's anything cosmic.

BL: would you wanna go up and do 3-4 hours sorties in the plane on the regular? 

Edited October 25, 2022 by nsplayr

[Biff_T]

I've got around 100 hours in those.  I never owned my own so I don't know the mx issues on it but like Kaputt said, they're fun little planes.  Definitely get the newer avionics.  

I cant remember what the legs are on this thing but 3 hours sounds about right.   I could do 3 hours in this bad boy but I'm not sure I'd like to bring another grown man with me.  Lol.  

[BFM this]

This thread revival brought to you by:

WTF is going on with Vans Aircraft?  Please don’t tell me we’re about to lose them to China!

[SocialD]

IDK man, but that's no bueno!  Sounds like they're cash strapped big time, here's hoping they pull through!  Shit, they need to pass around a collection hat to the Vans AF to keep it afloat.  

[ClearedHot]

33 minutes ago, SocialD said:

IDK man, but that's no bueno!  Sounds like they're cash strapped big time, here's hoping they pull through!  Shit, they need to pass around a collection hat to the Vans AF to keep it afloat.  

Stopped shipping kits...that's a big deal.

[di1630]

https://www.vansaircraft.com/2023/10/business-announcement-from-vans-founder-dick-vangrunsven/


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[HuggyU2]

The chinese will buy it. 

[kaputt]

Seems like they made some poor business decisions at the height of the COVID demand. 
 

I bet the Chinese buy it too, especially since the CEO they brought in is the former Glasair guy and that got sold to the Chinese. Really a shame for what’s arguably the premier experimental aircraft company. 
 

This also speaks to the larger issue of GA being close to a death knell in this country. The most popular kit company facing potential shutdown, new Cessna 172 and PA-28 family aircraft are north of a half million dollars and basically only bought by flight schools, and the legacy GA fleet is facing a reckoning on remaining in flight worthy condition. 
 

I was just recently tacitly involved in the attempted restoration of a Beech Sundowner. Now it doesn’t have the wide support that 172s and Pipers do, but it was a flying condition airplane that looked like it needed moderate restoration to bring it back to a like new condition. Turns out once things started getting dug into, the level of corrosion hidden throughout the airframe was far larger than one would have guessed. It was a full records and relatively well maintained aircraft too. 
 

Cessna, Piper, Beechcraft, etc… probably never imagined these planes would still be flying today, let alone make up the backbone of the actively flying fleet. With no affordable supply being put into the market it’s hard to see a sustainable future for GA. 

[hindsight2020]

5 hours ago, kaputt said:

This also speaks to the larger issue of GA being close to a death knell in this country.

You're telling me. It's in absolute shambles. I'm actually in the process of finding salvage/firesale for my carcass of a plane. Inflight engine issue, got touchy there for a second, long story short, PEL'd that bitch barely back to a runway. thank heavens I was solo, didn't put my family through that stress.

An anti-climatic end to a 10 year ownership affair, but I guess everything comes to an end. 2/10 would not recommend again, but I'll always have the family trip memories with me.

I'll take a lap for a while, take advantage of the increased savings now that I'm planeless in order to lick my wounds from this loss and bolster my seed money for the pivot. I'll find the right replacement when the time is right, and get back on the saddle. I am d.o.n.e. with certified. 100% EAB for me going forward, more than likely 6a or Glasair 2 FT. done with retracts too.

As to Vans. Yup, the interim CEO selected is the guy who did Glasair's chop and spinoff. My money this goes down as Glasair 2.0. winnie the pooh will likely be in the picture now.

Edited October 30, 2023 by hindsight2020
grammerz,

[Lord Ratner]

18 hours ago, di1630 said:

https://www.vansaircraft.com/2023/10/business-announcement-from-vans-founder-dick-vangrunsven/


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I think we're going to see a whole lot of small businesses in this exact problem going forward. They did not adequately assess the inflationary pressures on their supply chains over the last 3 years, got used to incredible order volume from the 2021 2022 discretionary spending glut, and now are going to get hammered by a complete collapse in order volume as Americans realize they don't have money for frivolous purchases like airplane kits, RVs, boats, and vacation homes. 

 

No one ever thinks the party is going to end, then the music stops, the lights come on, and the bar hag you were hitting on turns out to be a lot less attractive than you thought she was a minute ago. 

 

I hope they come out of it on the other side, I was planning to build one of those planes one day. 

[fire4effect]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

I think we're going to see a whole lot of small businesses in this exact problem going forward. They did not adequately assess the inflationary pressures on their supply chains over the last 3 years, got used to incredible order volume from the 2021 2022 discretionary spending glut, and now are going to get hammered by a complete collapse in order volume as Americans realize they don't have money for frivolous purchases like airplane kits, RVs, boats, and vacation homes. 

 

No one ever thinks the party is going to end, then the music stops, the lights come on, and the bar hag you were hitting on turns out to be a lot less attractive than you thought she was a minute ago. 

 

I hope they come out of it on the other side, I was planning to build one of those planes one day. 

I've considered building or buying one already built. In fact, I think someone quoted Van's as saying some of their biggest competition is from already built RVs. Go figure. I think if they trimmed their product line back to 2-3 models and figured out how to do a 2 weeks to Taxi like Glasair they could run the table. Most people don't want to spend 4 years building they want to be flying. My .02. 

[HuggyU2]

11 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

...more than likely 6a...

Don't. It's an inherently poor design:

They put the tailwheel on the wrong end. 

[Springer]

2 hours ago, fire4effect said:

I've considered building or buying one already built. In fact, I think someone quoted Van's as saying some of their biggest competition is from already built RVs. Go figure. I think if they trimmed their product line back to 2-3 models and figured out how to do a 2 weeks to Taxi like Glasair they could run the table. Most people don't want to spend 4 years building they want to be flying. My .02. 

Calling my ins company to up the value of my -8.

Business Announcement From Van's Founder Dick Vangrunsven - VAF Forums (vansairforce.net)

From the above forum link:

Long story short, we are seeing the end of an era. That’s not to say the new era won’t be OK, but this was really the last kit manufacturer that could be built on an average middle-class budget. With all of the other component prices increasing exponentially, like engines and avionics and props, I think we are really seeing the end of the traditional budget home building era.

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Springer

[Biff_T]

Bally Bombers for everyone!   

Let's show the Chinese we can build our own aircraft without them!

This thing has retractable gear too.  For those who want to go a little faster.  

 

 

[HeloDude]

But isn’t recreational GA flying not good for the environment?  And I’ve been told by some petty high up people that climate change is the most dangerous threat we’re facing.

[SocialD]

56 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

But isn’t recreational GA flying not good for the environment?  And I’ve been told by some petty high up people that climate change is the most dangerous threat we’re facing.

 

 

I know they love my 670 cubic inches of radial powah as I loudly fly over their telsa and solar powered homes.  I just wish global warming would kick in a bit more.  My latitude needs just about 5-10 degrees higher temps in the winter to make it more manageable.  

[di1630]

Anyone here ever use a LLC to buy a fractional share of an aircraft?

My plan is to sell my LLC 1/3 of my plane so the LLC can write it off the profits. Legal Guidance is pretty vague


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[fritz51]

Anyone here ever use a LLC to buy a fractional share of an aircraft?

My plan is to sell my LLC 1/3 of my plane so the LLC can write it off the profits. Legal Guidance is pretty vague


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Sounds like fraud to me but you do you


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[brabus]

I know lots of people who sell airplanes to their LLCs. Also know people who purchase planes with one LLC and lease them to their other LLC. Sorry I don’t have personal, direct knowledge to share, but it’s obviously doable and legal based on the amount of people I see do it with no problems (and I’ve asked about tax implications).

[Swizzle]

On 11/1/2023 at 4:41 PM, di1630 said:

Anyone here ever use a LLC to buy a fractional share of an aircraft?

My plan is to sell my LLC 1/3 of my plane so the LLC can write it off the profits. Legal Guidance is pretty vague


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https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/write-off.asp

Fractional ownership equals Fractional write-down/off under GAAP perhaps...? What do I know as am not a CPA/CFP.

Owner vs operator is a distinction, and a business strategy...get a tax attorney's or CPA's advice, otherwise KISS-principle. It's all about where the liability lies. 

[BFM this]

If such a mechanism were in place, I would consider cutting a $10k check for a plane I don’t intend to start for a few years from now.

[SocialD]

Best of luck to Van's, they've done more to advance GA than most.  I have a buddy building a 12 right now who works for Van's remotely, will be interesting to see how it's going for him.  Thankfully, I think he has the entire kit already.  

Edited December 6, 2023 by SocialD