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14 hours ago, herkbum said:

Well I just came off training pay, so anything is a rather large pay raise. But I would prefer the new rate to be in effect now rather than later.


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Totally on board with that, no one wants a delay in this case and get to the next 10yr contract quicker (hopefully not). I recommended a friend go 737 as he wanted to be domestic initially with mid range kids. Then go 74 like he wanted = Told him don’t let the start pay on 74 $117 drive his decision much as he can do 73 FO $89 for maybe a year and IF things stay the same with his experience jump CA 2nd year thereabouts at $175 and stay domestic 4-5 years with the kids to upgrade 74 at a later date 🤔 maybe, especially as the combined seniority list in Nov will slow upgrades is a solid guess for him. Just a work around if you will. As for yourself, FedEx/UPS and everyone is hiring so you have your choice more so than ever before. I have too much time invested here and dug in like an Alabama Tick. Definitely not for everyone, but the flying appeals to me for various personal reasons. Lazy is one of them.😴

Edited by AirGuardianC141747
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On 9/21/2021 at 8:39 AM, herkbum said:

Well I just came off training pay, so anything is a rather large pay raise. But I would prefer the new rate to be in effect now rather than later.


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Glad you put that out there in the universe. New Pay Scales retroactive 1 Sept along with new vacation accrual and new min guarantee. Union email came out yesterday. So there’s that. 

Edited by AirGuardianC141747
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12 minutes ago, merica1776 said:

It seems like UPS/FedEx gets you the most cash, but would an in-domicile pax carrier allow more days home.  It seems like cargo is basically gone 50% of the month but pax is slightly better. Is that accurate?

No.  There are no constants (except "living in base makes your work life easier") and all forecasts are crap.  Everything is cyclic and each carrier has ways to maximize whatever variable you want to maximize. 

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2 hours ago, merica1776 said:

It seems like UPS/FedEx gets you the most cash, but would an in-domicile pax carrier allow more days home.  It seems like cargo is basically gone 50% of the month but pax is slightly better. Is that accurate?

Like nunya said: there are no constants. Commuting adds hours if not days back and forth multiple times a month. Big bases are the most solid, but things expand and contract due to the economy bottom line. Just ask Delta when they had a good footprint in CVG mid 2000s and many other carriers, they shrank heavily. But a lot of things come back so seniority is everything. Make your best guess as timing is a big part of it.

Most places it is work, so maximize your pay for the maximum time at home as your happy place. Fly more make more, soft pay, etc. and know your contract.

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Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

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20 minutes ago, brabus said:

Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

I’m at FedEx and live in Memphis. I choose to fly short trips (2-3 days) or out and backs where I’m home either every nite or sleeping in my own house 80-90% of the month. If you’re a commuter (which most of our pilots are), then they tend to bid trips that are 6ish days on and a week off. A lot of them fly double dead heads (or front/backend DHs) to prevent coming thru MEM as much as possible. I’m not aware of too many pilots that circle the world in 14 days with our company but there may be 777 folks that have done so? Regardless with just a smidge of seniority (just about a year) you can literally fly whatever footprint you’d like. It may not be the most efficient or have the nicest pairings, but you’ll be able to fly the days of the month you’d like.
 

Additionally, we have the ability to trade and drop trips that increases your flexibility during the month. And…our vacation system is THE BEST of the airlines. Which is a huge advantage to getting key dates off and knocking out trips.  

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@MEMguy Great rundown. I had no desire to circumnavigate the world/fly nights most of the time, so that’s what led me to the pax side. However, seems that part of cargo does not have to be what you always do if so chosen. Too committed seniority-wise now, but wish I would have had this type of input when making decisions 4 years ago. Certainly good info for those still considering the direction they want to take. 

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20 hours ago, merica1776 said:

It seems like UPS/FedEx gets you the most cash, but would an in-domicile pax carrier allow more days home.  It seems like cargo is basically gone 50% of the month but pax is slightly better. Is that accurate?

 

I don't think saying cargo is gone 50% of the month is accurate at all, at least not with what my UPS/FDX buddies are doing.  I would say the most time at home is in-domicile for anyone of the big airlines (which includes FDX/UPS).  I'd also say that the most money is at the airline that allows you to live in domicile.   As an example, I'm on my last 3 day stretch of reserve this month and it's looking good that I won't get used (jinxing myself here lol).  I've only flown one day this month, which was an over time trip I chose to take.  One day of flying, 91 hours of pay and I slept in my bed every night this month.  

Is that typical, not always, but it's not all that uncommon with a little seniority and living in base.  If I were a commuter, I'd likely not bid reserve and resign myself to always being gone 12-16+ days/month.  If I did bid reserve as a commuter, I'd be sweating early reports every evening and have to commute into and sit at the base for any short calls...not fun.  I'd also likely not have as many opportunities for lucrative overtime flying as they often go out with short notice.  

 

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7 hours ago, brabus said:

@MEMguy Great rundown. I had no desire to circumnavigate the world/fly nights most of the time, so that’s what led me to the pax side. However, seems that part of cargo does not have to be what you always do if so chosen. Too committed seniority-wise now, but wish I would have had this type of input when making decisions 4 years ago. Certainly good info for those still considering the direction they want to take. 

@brabus no problem. Your seniority is definitely something to think about. But if FedEx and the lifestyle is what you’re after, please don’t consider yourself pot-committed. I just gave my “PE” (recommendation) to an old Sq buddy who’s closing in on 5 years at UAL. He was hired this summer and starting soon. Captain I’m with now was 10+ years at DAL. Tons of SWA/AA coming over too with varying levels of seniority. But regardless if you’re senior and in domicile with any of the big 6, that’s so tuff to beat. 

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On 9/27/2021 at 7:23 AM, MEMguy said:

And…our vacation system is THE BEST of the airlines. Which is a huge advantage to getting key dates off and knocking out trips.  

I am currently in the middle of a 6+ week period of not touching airplanes for work based on using 11 days of vacation.  Now, it has been mostly during the month of Sept, so not exactly an in-demand period of the year with respect to holidays, school breaks, etc, but that just makes it easier for a generally junior dude like me to hold.  Plus, it is the month of the Reno Air Races, so a good aviation time of year to have off.

 

On 9/27/2021 at 6:53 AM, brabus said:

Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

Can't speak for anywhere but Purple, but any monthly schedule type you can find at a pax airline, you can find the same schedule in freight. The single-departure/round-the-world flying is certainly a type of schedule you can find on the fleets that fly internationally, but it isn't even the majority of schedule type at FedEx.

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15 hours ago, Hacker said:

I am currently in the middle of a 6+ week period of not touching airplanes for work based on using 11 days of vacation.  Now, it has been mostly during the month of Sept, so not exactly an in-demand period of the year with respect to holidays, school breaks, etc, but that just makes it easier for a generally junior dude like me to hold.  Plus, it is the month of the Reno Air Races, so a good aviation time of year to have off.

During my entire airline career I always bid Sept off and was easy to get no matter my seniority.   I had no squids to consider.  Best time to travel, no crowds, and cooler in Europe. 

swiss.jpg

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7 hours ago, Springer said:

During my entire airline career I always bid Sept off and was easy to get no matter my seniority.   I had no squids to consider.  Best time to travel, no crowds, and cooler in Europe. 

swiss.jpg

Ditto on bidding off Sept.  Flight loads are less, kids are back in school, no crowds, cooler, parks/campgrounds are dead.   

 

Side note: is that pic Grindelwald area?

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32 minutes ago, slc said:

Ditto on bidding off Sept.  Flight loads are less, kids are back in school, no crowds, cooler, parks/campgrounds are dead.   

 

Side note: is that pic Grindelwald area?

Not sure if it's because we're still running reduced schedules, but I just flew two 3-day trips in the last two weeks and every leg was pretty much full.  Some of them were completely full with very few non-revs.  The airports are still packed.  I think "teleworking" is providing some people (especially ones without kids), the opportunity to travel without taking vacation.

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On 9/27/2021 at 4:53 AM, brabus said:

Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

Brown is basically 2 airlines: international & domestic. Fred is similar. On the international side flying heavies, 12 to 14 day worldwide trips are common, but there are options for shorter trips. Long trips = fewer reports: popular with commuters. Shorter trips are somewhat more popular with the folks who live in base. On the intl light twin side there is a similar mix of trip lengths, the difference being most of the flying is intra theater. I.e. you are likely to deadhead to Europe or Asia & remain in that part of the world for the duration of your trip. On the domestic side there is a very wide variety. Turns have you home every night, there are week on/week off trips that often have commercials on one or both ends, and reserve usually yields you a few extra days at home. Domestic is where most of the night sort flying is as well which is why I avoid it. Big picture: there really is something for everyone. One thing to keep in mind about brown is that there is one pay scale regardless of equipment. This means there is no artificial pressure for anyone to “upgrade” to larger equipment if all they really want to do is fly the Bus in the CONUS. This also means that you will “max out” pay much earlier here than elsewhere. Delta may have a slightly higher max wide body pay, but your chances of ever being senior enough to be an international 777 captain there are highly dependent on when, and at what age you get hired. Also, the pension is huge & pretty much non existent outside brown and purple.  Downside being flying on the back side of the clock may mean you don’t get to live very long to enjoy it. 

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Great information over and over again. Seniority reigns King, although I would consider living in domicile a very close second if it’s really where you want to live. Those who have cities/towns they want to live/die in because it’s their Dream location and it is a domicile for Big 3/Purple/Brown/SW,JB,F9 whatever gig in aviation or not have a ton of options going for them and I envy as most would. Aviation has great $ opportunities and if DFW, ATL, ORD, etc, etc, etc, fits the bill you have somewhere to shoot for. This past decade has been the first time a pilot can choose a location and then consider the outfit which serves him/her the best for the most part. Adding international and/or commuting creates a more complicated situation. Heavy international takes more time within the pax ranks especially now. A lot of international is held by the cargo outfits early on in your career with wide bodies, schedules get better with time. Do you want international now or later, will it be 3-5 days or 10-14 days depending on lifestyle, children, independent spouse, etc. Domestic hub turns whether pax (just shorter turns vs cargo), day, night, day and night flying are all great questions. 3AM wake ups for 6AM departures day after day for 3,4,5 days 8-12hr days OR 7PM night departures hanging out at a night station(lounge chair/room) return by 7AM. Red eyes for junior pax folks or extra $ for the senior their is goodness in many outfits that you can do a lot of different schedules within a year on property. You may find daytime sleeping does work for you, maybe not - it is a huge consideration for some.

*I don’t recommend 17 Days for the general public (I normally do 14-16, still long), but we do day/night and everything in-between. We are slave to the customer we fly for that day. Purple/Brown it will be night, tracks, good food, etc. 75% of the other time it’s random routes daytime and night time or reverse. AMC, DHL, Race Teams, Car manufacturer’s, Alibaba, clothing, Flowers, Lobsters for Asia, they just don’t care they just don’t want it there. Off for a couple weeks, commuting on company dime sometimes my time once a month living where I want to live and sleeping half or third the time just works for me as 74 cargo and 777 would work but don’t go to nearly as many locations. 76 guys like their schedules, 73 folks are starting to fly more. Regarding future longevity with several kids in tow, take care of yourself and go to the Big Players. Pre-pandemic adventure come on over the water isn’t super fine again just yet, pretty decent depending on your priorities.

Everywhere has some greatness, some more than most but they ALL have fleas. Take some time and read the topics that interest you on APC such as schedules, class drops, pay, vaccine, contract woes, management styles, new hires, etc. Read the chatter from the line folks doing the deed and find where your priorities/interests lie to best best fit your future for you and your family. ***Very tough right now with the Pax folks and some cargo info as recovery is different at many carriers and today’s win or loss can be tomorrow’s dream or epic fail.***  I wish everyone the best and I push folks who are with us to move on as fast as they can if their dream job is elsewhere. Our variety is unmatched and will get you hired on a routine basis. Nothing guaranteed, but with Atlas blood in the water the Sharks are always near, or just do the flow thru programs for a few years or way less. Most Mil folks are ripe for the picking, especially with the latest changes of approach(folks) entering this profession.

Edited by AirGuardianC141747
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Hacker has it right. I do September off with time prior and time after getting 45-60 days or so to myself/wife. September is great for all that was mentioned, it’s just a better time spent in the pool, chilling around suburbia, open range time, best weather ever. Winter in the U.S., might as well be somewhere else enjoying their beverages, eats and warmer climate or summer near or below the equator. Best thing about these aviation “jobs”(it is for some), I NEVER think about “work” at home til I need to get my ticket 24 b4, then I pack and have a beverage. No Queep/additional duties at least for myself. Truly amazing.

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On 9/29/2021 at 7:22 AM, slc said:

Ditto on bidding off Sept.  Flight loads are less, kids are back in school, no crowds, cooler, parks/campgrounds are dead.   

 

Side note: is that pic Grindelwald area?

Well west of there but we headquarters out of Wengen.  Discovered the Lauterbrunnen Valley area (below) when stationed in Germany.  Has changed little in the last 40 yrs unlike the rest of the world.  Airline job allowed us to retire <60 and visit it often.  I plan to die there.

Wengen-211.jpg

Edited by Springer
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10 hours ago, AirGuardianC141747 said:

Great information over and over again. Seniority reigns King, although I would consider living in domicile a very close second if it’s really where you want to live. Those who have cities/towns they want to live/die in because it’s their Dream location and it is a domicile for Big 3/Purple/Brown/SW,JB,F9 whatever gig in aviation or not have a ton of options going for them and I envy as most would. Aviation has great $ opportunities and if DFW, ATL, ORD, etc, etc, etc, fits the bill you have somewhere to shoot for. This past decade has been the first time a pilot can choose a location and then consider the outfit which serves him/her the best for the most part. Adding international and/or commuting creates a more complicated situation. Heavy international takes more time within the pax ranks especially now. A lot of international is held by the cargo outfits early on in your career with wide bodies, schedules get better with time. Do you want international now or later, will it be 3-5 days or 10-14 days depending on lifestyle, children, independent spouse, etc. Domestic hub turns whether pax (just shorter turns vs cargo), day, night, day and night flying are all great questions. 3AM wake ups for 6AM departures day after day for 3,4,5 days 8-12hr days OR 7PM night departures hanging out at a night station(lounge chair/room) return by 7AM. Red eyes for junior pax folks or extra $ for the senior their is goodness in many outfits that you can do a lot of different schedules within a year on property. You may find daytime sleeping does work for you, maybe not - it is a huge consideration for some.

*I don’t recommend 17 Days for the general public (I normally do 14-16, still long), but we do day/night and everything in-between. We are slave to the customer we fly for that day. Purple/Brown it will be night, tracks, good food, etc. 75% of the other time it’s random routes daytime and night time or reverse. AMC, DHL, Race Teams, Car manufacturer’s, Alibaba, clothing, Flowers, Lobsters for Asia, they just don’t care they just don’t want it there. Off for a couple weeks, commuting on company dime sometimes my time once a month living where I want to live and sleeping half or third the time just works for me as 74 cargo and 777 would work but don’t go to nearly as many locations. 76 guys like their schedules, 73 folks are starting to fly more. Regarding future longevity with several kids in tow, take care of yourself and go to the Big Players. Pre-pandemic adventure come on over the water isn’t super fine again just yet, pretty decent depending on your priorities.

Everywhere has some greatness, some more than most but they ALL have fleas. Take some time and read the topics that interest you on APC such as schedules, class drops, pay, vaccine, contract woes, management styles, new hires, etc. Read the chatter from the line folks doing the deed and find where your priorities/interests lie to best best fit your future for you and your family. ***Very tough right now with the Pax folks and some cargo info as recovery is different at many carriers and today’s win or loss can be tomorrow’s dream or epic fail.***  I wish everyone the best and I push folks who are with us to move on as fast as they can if their dream job is elsewhere. Our variety is unmatched and will get you hired on a routine basis. Nothing guaranteed, but with Atlas blood in the water the Sharks are always near, or just do the flow thru programs for a few years or way less. Most Mil folks are ripe for the picking, especially with the latest changes of approach(folks) entering this profession.

Hey.... I take offense to that 😛

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2 hours ago, Springer said:

Well west of there but we headquarters out of Wengen.  Discovered the Lauterbrunnen Valley area (below) when stationed in Germany.  Has changed little in the last 40 yrs unlike the rest of the world.  Airline job allowed us to retire <60 and visit it often.  I plan to die there.

Wengen-211.jpg

Not sure if this is true or not but a Belgian colleague told me once Switzerland has a death tourism market where cancer patients or other suffering people will travel there for assisted suicide (because it's legal). But the majesty behind it all is you have to wait like 7 days in country and while you wait they tell you to go take some walks. So people go to die, then they start absorbing all the views and by the time they're allowed a procedure they change their mind. But for anyone who has never been, that is how beautiful Switzerland is. I can't really think of another way to illustrate it. It literally causes you to contemplate life differently. 

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