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https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2021/06/22/air-force-grapples-with-enduring-pilot-shortage-as-airlines-begin-to-rehire/

“Airlines are potentially going to expand their hiring,” Jacobson said, adding that the question is “how quickly they do it — they have folks that are furloughed, so they still have to bring those folks back.”
 

Out to lunch comment. I don’t know who furloughed, but every major US airline is/will be hiring big numbers in 2021 and beyond. United has already run 6+ indoc classes with 30-40 pilots each, and they are increasing throughput monthly. United CEO just did an interview about how concerned he was there may not be ENOUGH military pilots to lure away (that’s good for airline pilots imo, may mean more pay).

I flew with one of the hiring board pilots a couple weeks ago, he said they are hiring military guys as fast as they possibly can to try to stay ahead of other majors. I asked why, his response: we’re all running out of high time (2-3000 hrs) military pilots, tell your AF friends that now is the time to apply, they will almost certainly get an interview…

If you’re on the fence about ditching active duty and moving to an airline gig to at least get a seniority number, now is quickly shaping up to be a dam good time to do it.

 

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30 minutes ago, LJ Driver said:

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2021/06/22/air-force-grapples-with-enduring-pilot-shortage-as-airlines-begin-to-rehire/

“Airlines are potentially going to expand their hiring,” Jacobson said, adding that the question is “how quickly they do it — they have folks that are furloughed, so they still have to bring those folks back.”
 

Out to lunch comment. I don’t know who furloughed, but every major US airline is/will be hiring big numbers in 2021 and beyond. United has already run 6+ indoc classes with 30-40 pilots each, and they are increasing throughput monthly. United CEO just did an interview about how concerned he was there may not be ENOUGH military pilots to lure away (that’s good for airline pilots imo, may mean more pay).

I flew with one of the hiring board pilots a couple weeks ago, he said they are hiring military guys as fast as they possibly can to try to stay ahead of other majors. I asked why, his response: we’re all running out of high time (2-3000 hrs) military pilots, tell your AF friends that now is the time to apply, they will almost certainly get an interview…

If you’re on the fence about ditching active duty and moving to an airline gig to at least get a seniority number, now is quickly shaping up to be a dam good time to do it.

 

"Mobility aircraft have 100 percent of the pilots they need...."

Sure...

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13 hours ago, LJ Driver said:

If you’re on the fence about ditching active duty and moving to an airline gig to at least get a seniority number, now is quickly shaping up to be a dam good time to do it.

 

Delta CEO announced they will be hiring 1,000 by this time next year.  First class started June 22.

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Boys, if you get hired somewhere, keep all your other apps on file and updated for at least a year. With the amount of movement going on right now, you'll probably be able to switch companies with minimal loss in seniority and be able to end up somewhere with a domicile that works better for you.

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On 6/22/2021 at 11:29 PM, Gunnermcjack said:

"Mobility aircraft have 100 percent of the pilots they need...."

Sure...

Yeah BS, we have 40+ copilots and less than 5 Instructors.  I wouldn’t expect a nonner bean counter at AFPC to know the difference though. 

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2 hours ago, brickhistory said:

For the uneducated, can you explain "fix it" email?

“Fix It” meaning your application.  There’s a missing date, or employment timeline error, or some other incomplete info. Basically, they’ve actually reviewed the app, so fix this so we can give you an interview.

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Mansplain: you see, Gertrude, there are some carriers that are so “ate up” that they cannot tolerate the slightest of what may appear, on the surface, to be an error. They therefore extend, on occasion, a modicum of grace to the hapless applicant in the form of what may be colloquially referred to in the lower lexicon as a fix it. You’re welcome.

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13 hours ago, Chida said:

Mansplain: you see, Gertrude, there are some carriers that are so “ate up” that they cannot tolerate the slightest of what may appear, on the surface, to be an error. They therefore extend, on occasion, a modicum of grace to the hapless applicant in the form of what may be colloquially referred to in the lower lexicon as a fix it. You’re welcome.

and then you "fail" the Hogan lol. Airline application process is so schizophrenic. Today's persona non-grata is tomorrow's "tier I" applicant. Kinda like the AF actually. 😄 

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On 6/24/2021 at 9:32 PM, Danger41 said:

FWIW, I got a “fix it” email from United with an availability 2.5 years in the future...

Far enough out that it's not a big deal for you, but let this be a lesson to other dudes about to hit submit on their apps.  Be sure that EVERYTHING is correct.  A 'fix it' email is good in that it shows they looked at your app, but it also means that they probably didn't actually score it.  They also may not get back around to scoring it until they've scored all the other apps in their cue, meaning that a simple omission on your app could cost you hundreds of guys getting hired in front of you.  Guys that will be senior to you until they retire.

It takes longer than you would think to get the app perfect, practice for your HR interview, and for Delta, study for the test.  Good work getting started 2.5 years out.

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No digs on SWA, but keep in mind you’ll fly the 73 for the rest of your life, on multi-leg days, to the same towns. There’s no real option for change of scenery, change up the flying, etc. But, I know several friends who are happy there. Don’t know enough to compare contracts. AA seniority is rapidly moving, which is awesome. But  AA could be bankrupt in 5 years, or SWA could not even exist in 15 years…who knows. Anyone who says they have a solid grasp on the Airline long view is full of shit. 

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AA:

Pros: Tons of retirements, significantly more than any other legacy. Seniority is everything. Wide body international flying.  If you desire international narrow body, tons of Caribbean/Central America destinations. Easy flying, I either sit reserve in base or afternoon flying, no more than 2 legs a day, I rarely set an alarm clock. Can do turns or 4 days. Average Calendar Day + Sit time. Sick if Needed. In house union (I view this as a pro, others don't. We have lots of control over our Committees.) Work rules can be advantageous but they are not simple and take effort. 

 

Cons: AA Pilot group is apathetic and morale is low. Great news is see first sentence above. Current CEO/COO are cheap, and management is very old fashioned "we are management, you are labor."  Culture is the opposite of SWA. Lots of debt. Hopefully our Scheduling issues can be fixed in the next contract, but management will drag it out for years... and most senior AA pilots (as in age, not seniority number) just want to get paid and go home before they retire <2025. 

 

Despite the above, it still beats Active Duty by a long shot, for both pay and time off.

 

 

 

Edited by xaarman
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For airline apps, what’s the consensus on the best sources of recommendation letters after internals? Bros at other airlines, non-airline AF peers, supervisors with “impressive” duty titles? 

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People who can attest to work ethic, flying ability, teamwork ability, problem solving ability, and leadership capability. Ideal is someone at the airline you’re targeting, followed by other airlines, and those who flew with you in the mil (and even better if those things intersect). Overall, I think it matters how much that person has been in a position to actually assess those qualities above (or at least sound like they were!)

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On 7/4/2021 at 6:40 PM, brabus said:

No digs on SWA, but keep in mind you’ll fly the 73 for the rest of your life, on multi-leg days, to the same towns. There’s no real option for change of scenery, change up the flying, etc. But, I know several friends who are happy there. Don’t know enough to compare contracts. AA seniority is rapidly moving, which is awesome. But  AA could be bankrupt in 5 years, or SWA could not even exist in 15 years…who knows. Anyone who says they have a solid grasp on the Airline long view is full of shit. 

I'm no SWA sunshine pumper, but this is all a bit of hyperbole.

1. 73 for the rest of your life?  "Like anyone can even know that."  We have no idea what's going on tomorrow in this company, so it's a pretty bold statement that we'll be flying the 73 for the next 30 years (assuming you're ~35 years old now).  I'd put a round of Boilermakers on us having a different airplane in the fleet in the next 30 years. 

2. Multi-leg days?  Sure.  I don't know many guys/gals that do 1 leg a day, no matter the airline.  And if you do, it's probably a long leg.  I'd guess the duty days are about the same.  Give me three 1.5 hour legs over one 7 hour leg, but that's just me.  I've had plenty of trips with only one leg in a day. 

3.  Same towns?  Doesn't every airline fly to the same towns?  We have ~120 destinations and no one has added more in the past year than we have.  If you think SWA isn't going to grow even more in the future than I don't know what to tell you.

When looking at seniority, it really means jack shit if you can't hold the base you want to hold.  Looking at retirements only tells part of the story.  Can you upgrade faster at AA vs. SW?  More than likely.  But I'm assuming you'll be stuck in NY or MIA or whatever the junior CA bases are at AA.    Just like you'll be stuck at OAK or LAX if you upgrade at SW.

SWA isn't a bad place to work.  Yes, it's all narrow body flying and that's not for everyone, but as a Herk guy who has a 3.0 ass, it's just like flying in the desert.  Except no one is shooting at you and the loadmasters look better (sometimes).  Only having one aircraft in the fleet is good and bad.  As previously stated, if you want to fly something else, you can't (for now).  At the same time, if I want to trade away a trip, I have roughly 4500 other FOs as trade partners.  I can pick up extra flying as a reserve holder and even trade my reserve for a trip if someone is willing (supposedly most airlines don't have this option).  99% of the CAs I've flown with have been really great dudes that generally don't give a shit about how you fly as long as you get us there safely. 

On the other hand, the ra-ra OnE LuV shit is wearing off.  We're all "one team, one heart" until they threaten furloughs 2 weeks before Christmas, knowing they had no intentions of actually following through with them.  One thing that came out of it is our pilot group and Union are stronger than ever (this coming from the mouths of the old guys).  The company thinks pilots will choose to come here versus others because we treat our pilots better and "we've never furloughed!" but that's all now bullshit.  We get paid less per hour and we generally work harder. 

I'd advise anyone to do homework and pick an airline that fits your lifestyle.  Also look at seniority at your desired base, not just company wide. 

 

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Great input, didn’t mean to come off as shitting on SWA. I think the biggest thing you hit on is what kind of flying/opportunities/basing does one want. One man’s con is another’s pro. I never considered cargo, zero desire…to many that’s the holy grail. To each their own. 

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