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disgruntledemployee

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8 hours ago, brabus said:

Every millennial has the opportunity to make enough money to live a good life

This is simply not true in a historical context. As pointed out, the median income is no longer capable of buying the same things. And the distribution of wealth over the generations at specific ages has shifted dramatically lower. The college scam has started millions off with crippling debt. 

 

Millennials did not create this world, their parents did.

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13 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

This is simply not true in a historical context. As pointed out, the median income is no longer capable of buying the same things. And the distribution of wealth over the generations at specific ages has shifted dramatically lower. The college scam has started millions off with crippling debt. 

 

Millennials did not create this world, their parents did.

It’s completely true. College today is mostly bullshit and absolutely financially cripples people (in terms of cost and earning potential relative to loans), so we agree on that. But guess what, nobody forces these kids to go and get that expensive, but useless degree. Again, plenty of millennials crushing life right now, but they’re not the ones who refuse to take ownership of their life and make dumb decisions like go get an art history degree and expect to buy a house 2 years after the fact. 

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Whenever boomers bitch about forgiving any student loans, I remind them I guess I shouldn’t pay 100% into SSA when I won’t be able to receive 100% SSA due to them. Oh yeah, 99% of jobs don’t have pensions anymore either. But hey, at least boomers will be able to buy that third vacation home.

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13 minutes ago, brabus said:

It’s completely true. College today is mostly bullshit and absolutely financially cripples people (in terms of cost and earning potential relative to loans), so we agree on that. But guess what, nobody forces these kids to go and get that expensive, but useless degree. Again, plenty of millennials crushing life right now, but they’re not the ones who refuse to take ownership of their life and make dumb decisions like go get an art history degree and expect to buy a house 2 years after the fact. 

Should service academies only have STEM degrees? I mean, as a tax payer why should I fund some tard at USAFA getting a B.S. in Philosophy?

A lot of college is bullshit. But who told Millennials to go to college or they won’t be anything in life and not obtain a good paying job? Boomers. Oh yeah, let’s talk about the Ivy’s. There’s a reason why those rich and famous parents weren’t cheating their kid into the Comp Sci program at the U of Nebraska. Because those STEM grads have a vastly less change to make it into the Bay Area big money MAANG world compared to Ivy grads. Stop acting like a STEM degree is a ticket to a big payout career. We’re now shifting to where a bachelors is the equivalent of a high school diploma and a graduate degree is now the equivalent of a bachelors.

Plenty of Millennials are crushing life right now. Part of it is what you’d said, hard work. Another part of it is being born into privilege of rich boomer parents and getting opportunities that those poorer would’ve never had.

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@Sua Sponte I get it, you’re talking to a poli sci major from a state school. But here’s the thing, I think my wife and I (technically millennials) are crushing life pretty well for us and our kids, and we got to where we are without anything handed to us. But I didn’t own what I do now when I was 25, or 30, etc. We steadily built our life today through effort and adapting around plenty of unexpected life hurdles. We’re not unique, lots of millennials have done this, many better than I did (the hookers and blow were totally worth it!) But like most things these days, negative news and whiny bitches get most of the “air time.” 

Additionally, I have millennial friends who never went to college - they’re crushing life much better than the art history guy. Lastly, I don’t define making millions on wall street from your Ivy League shoe-in job as the min bar to define “crushing life.” But if that’s your definition, well then I feel bad for your bleak outlook on life. 

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6 minutes ago, brabus said:

@Sua Sponte I get it, you’re talking to a poli sci major from a state school. But here’s the thing, I think my wife and I (technically millennials) are crushing life pretty well for us and our kids, and we got to where we are without anything handed to us. But I didn’t own what I do now when I was 25, or 30, etc. We steadily built our life today through effort and adapting around plenty of unexpected life hurdles. We’re not unique, lots of millennials have done this, many better than I did (the hookers and blow were totally worth it!) But like most things these days, negative news and whiny bitches get most of the “air time.” 

Additionally, I have millennial friends who never went to college - they’re crushing life much better than the art history guy. Lastly, I don’t define making millions on wall street from your Ivy League shoe-in job as the min bar to define “crushing life.” But if that’s your definition, well then I feel bad for your bleak outlook on life. 

The irony is I’m a Poli Sci major from a state school (undergrad). The critical thinking skills I used obtaining that education has helped me out immensely, especially the two times I’ve been in grad school.

I fucked up in the Air Force and lost my career, but I didn’t let that define my life. I worked really hard the last five years to get where I’m at today. I think that’s what drives me nuts about a lot of boomers who just sorta road the coattails of their parents, the Greatest Generation, and then lecture Millennials on how “lazy” and “entitled” we apparently are.

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1 hour ago, Prozac said:

WTF dude, I wasn’t either of those.  😎

You mean pilot and/or liberal arts major? 

Hey...Do/did you steal box-nasties by chance!? Or, might you have a stop watch readily available?🧭

(*sarcasm)

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1 hour ago, Sua Sponte said:

Whenever boomers bitch about forgiving any student loans, I remind them I guess I shouldn’t pay 100% into SSA when I won’t be able to receive 100% SSA due to them. Oh yeah, 99% of jobs don’t have pensions anymore either. But hey, at least boomers will be able to buy that third vacation home.

I bitch because I had to repay mine (I ain't a boomer).  I knew what I wanted (fly, ergo the degree) and figured it out.  And today, in my state, HS grads that attend in state and can hold a B can mostly have tuition covered. 

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

This is simply not true in a historical context. As pointed out, the median income is no longer capable of buying the same things. And the distribution of wealth over the generations at specific ages has shifted dramatically lower. The college scam has started millions off with crippling debt. 

 

Millennials did not create this world, their parents did.

Ok, so what are they going to do about it?  Sit there with tears rolling onto their cell phone screens while tic tocking away, or do something about it.  I posit, too many will do nothing.  And that's fine with me, I'll take it.  Know and understand the game, then beat it.  Been that way forever... I think it was called, "King of the Mountain."

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3 hours ago, brabus said:

@Sua Sponte I get it, you’re talking to a poli sci major from a state school. But here’s the thing, I think my wife and I (technically millennials) are crushing life pretty well for us and our kids, and we got to where we are without anything handed to us. But I didn’t own what I do now when I was 25, or 30, etc. We steadily built our life today through effort and adapting around plenty of unexpected life hurdles. We’re not unique, lots of millennials have done this, many better than I did (the hookers and blow were totally worth it!) But like most things these days, negative news and whiny bitches get most of the “air time.” 

Additionally, I have millennial friends who never went to college - they’re crushing life much better than the art history guy. Lastly, I don’t define making millions on wall street from your Ivy League shoe-in job as the min bar to define “crushing life.” But if that’s your definition, well then I feel bad for your bleak outlook on life. 

That's a lot for us man, and many of us escaped an unfortunate fate by going to the military. The fact is though, for 99% of millinneals the traditional career plan didn't work. You simply can't build a career with jobs that don't exist and when the only thing the labor market can offer is entry level positions for a decade that causes a problem. We can't even say they could have just joined the military because between 2008 and 2012 or so we were kicking people out left and right for shit as small as failing a PT test. I remember half the class that graduated the year after me was told they wouldn't have enough AD billets and they needed to find guard/reserve jobs or lose their commission. 

Many successfully went on to find other paths but not everyone can be a small business owner either. A town only needs so many McDonalds franchises, so many coffee shops, so many laundry mats, whatever.... Not to mention having nothing for a small business investment and a complete inability to get a small business loan due to the lack of collateral. We can't expect everyone to be the next shark tank discovery with some awesome phone app that can bring billions. 

Don't look at these people as quitters, but try and have some empathy that they graduated college with the same ambition and excitement you did only to be let down their 5th year at Chipotle because the associate manager position still wasn't open and that was literally the best they could do as far as job market goes. 

I don't find our peers are entitled. I don't think they believe the world owes them anything. Rather, it appears more me the other way around. They don't believe they owe the world anything. Their time, their efforts, their labor, their skills, their son's birthday, their holiday weekend, whatever..... And actually, they are right. We don't owe the world crap, because life between society and workers is very much a transactional relationship. 

Some of us don't care and we will go forth and put forward our best efforts anyway. It has paid off to some extent. Others tried this only to fall flat for decades. We can all day success is about continuing to try but there is a very unfortunate reality that you only have about 40 working years. What happens if you fail all 40? I would use to think that was impossible but we have tons of people now that have fallen flat for 10-15..... They will really only start their careers at 35. You hit peak earning potential at 45 (meaning your career trajectory is more or less set and vertical movement isn't impossible but much harder), and only having 25 years to build a retirement. What's that going to look like? Is retirement event tenable? 

Regarding student loans, I'm similarly unhappy I paid all of mine off. I also never got PLSF because I never knew I needed to be on an income based repayment plan. I did standard repayment so I'd finish them quicker. I agree there is a salt to paying them off only to have other people get the equivalent of a $50K gift or whatever. 

I would be more forgiving with targeted forgiveness that looked at say 5 years of earnings and paid less the longer you were out of school. 

By the way, if anyone reading this does have student loans, you should know there is an executive order in effect until October that allows you to get back credit toward PSLF for all payments you've made as long as you convert to the correct loan type by the end of this Fiscal Year. 

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LOL I have a Poli Sci degree from a state school.  From my perspective, I dont think a degree matters that much.  I work in Oil and Gas and I see a pretty wide range of backgrounds that are pretty successful.  I will say maybe from being an Officer and my degree gives me an advantage in critical thinking and writing skills.  I work in sales and business development and I see a lot of people with maybe a MBA from a state school and its never been that impressive.  I will also say getting an engineering degree might start you off at a decent level but it stagnates pretty fast.  I think going into debt for an advanced degree really only pays off if it is from a high end business school that can get you connected.  Getting a MBA from whatever State U IDK.  

In my role you can make pretty good $$$.  We have a lot of former enlisted people in our company as either a service tech or sales.  All make 6 figures.  One of our sales guy pulls over $200k with a GED but he was in the Navy so we knew he was trainable.  We have had guys with a STEM degree from Texas A&M and honestly i couldn't stand them.  

There is some truth to the millennial stereotype but I also think the media really pushes it as a talking point.  But I also think there is some truth to the corporate bitching.  Companies are making record profits but are they giving out many raises?  You always read about a CEO making millions only to fail miserably only to get picked up at another company.  Meanwhile the boots on the ground are making it all happen with what they have.  So yeah I sympathize with that bitching a bit.  I also have seen a # of CEO's lifestyle and Im not interested in that.

Student Loans:  What I think is really ed up is hte Univ of PHX and other for profit schools that really went after the lower income and undereducated.  They promised a bright future with a BS degree.  Univ of PHX business plan was to grow at a rate of an Ohio State Univ every year.  This is where the Govt should step in and investigate.  I am in favor of those schools being banished and loans forgiven.  I think these for profit schools make up the majority of delinquent loans?

There are plenty of options to be successful.  I think today there are far more creative ways and there probably is more wealth to be generated that in the past.  Look at United Airlines.  They are starting their own from hte street to RJ school.  Skip college, be an RJ at 18 or 19.  By 40 you're making bank in the right seat.  Just a quick example off the top of my head.

What I disagree with the boomers is the idea of being a slave to a company.  Again in my experience the only way i see people getting promted or raises is jumping to different companies.  Or the idea of being a good soldier and not taking sick days and being hyper dedicated.  When you watch your peers of a company be there for 20+ years and being kicked to the curb at the first hint of decline, all of a sudden you're only out for yourself.  Pensions are no longer a thing, benefits aren't what the use to be.  The table has flipped and the employee can make more demands.  I think hte corporate structure is flipping as it should.

Finally: tangent into global warming.  I was curious why the left didn't push harder to keep remote workers as much as possible.  Less cars not eh road, less congestion, etc....less need for office space=more green space.  Should help global warming?????

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6 hours ago, FLEA said:

The fact is though, for 99% of millinneals the traditional career plan didn't work.

By traditional do you mean “work at X for 40 years, pension, etc?” If so, then to agree with your further down point, that’s probably not a bad thing. Again, adapt to the changing work environment, or be a whiny bitch on social media - choose. Lots of millennials own their own business, lots are making O-5 level livings without a college degree, etc. It’s DIFFERENT than decades ago, but is not the doom and gloom “we got so screwed whaaaa” that is pushed. That is simply an excuse. Find a way over or around the hurdle, or give up. I don’t have empathy for most who take the whiny route because I see so many succeeding. I of course have empathy for those who truly are experiencing some significant hurdles that they’re trying to get over, but can’t - but it’s bullshit to say those people make up “a large percentage, majority, etc.”

Overall, I think there are far more millennials succeeding and living life than there are being lazy, entitled shits. But to those lazy ones, I have zero empathy - find a way to win (including pivoting from the outcome of your poor decision to get an expensive and useless degree) or cry yourself to sleep on tik tok like a child, you deserve which ever outcome you make.

 

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15 hours ago, Swizzle said:

You mean pilot and/or liberal arts major? 

Hey...Do/did you steal box-nasties by chance!? Or, might you have a stop watch readily available?🧭

(*sarcasm)

Ah, no. I answer to a lot of things; asshole, dick, f-ing asshole, f-ing dick (my wife will confirm). But I will not be labeled a nav! 😜 I used to fly Sua to work so he could lie on his stomach and pass gas. I was under the impression I was his bestest pilot, but I think he also told BQZip’s mom that he loved her, so I guess you just can’t trust that guy’s compliments! 

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14 hours ago, FLEA said:

That's a lot for us man, and many of us escaped an unfortunate fate by going to the military. The fact is though, for 99% of millinneals the traditional career plan didn't work. You simply can't build a career with jobs that don't exist and when the only thing the labor market can offer is entry level positions for a decade that causes a problem. We can't even say they could have just joined the military because between 2008 and 2012 or so we were kicking people out left and right for shit as small as failing a PT test. I remember half the class that graduated the year after me was told they wouldn't have enough AD billets and they needed to find guard/reserve jobs or lose their commission. 

Many successfully went on to find other paths but not everyone can be a small business owner either. A town only needs so many McDonalds franchises, so many coffee shops, so many laundry mats, whatever.... Not to mention having nothing for a small business investment and a complete inability to get a small business loan due to the lack of collateral. We can't expect everyone to be the next shark tank discovery with some awesome phone app that can bring billions. 

Don't look at these people as quitters, but try and have some empathy that they graduated college with the same ambition and excitement you did only to be let down their 5th year at Chipotle because the associate manager position still wasn't open and that was literally the best they could do as far as job market goes. 

I don't find our peers are entitled. I don't think they believe the world owes them anything. Rather, it appears more me the other way around. They don't believe they owe the world anything. Their time, their efforts, their labor, their skills, their son's birthday, their holiday weekend, whatever..... And actually, they are right. We don't owe the world crap, because life between society and workers is very much a transactional relationship. 

Some of us don't care and we will go forth and put forward our best efforts anyway. It has paid off to some extent. Others tried this only to fall flat for decades. We can all day success is about continuing to try but there is a very unfortunate reality that you only have about 40 working years. What happens if you fail all 40? I would use to think that was impossible but we have tons of people now that have fallen flat for 10-15..... They will really only start their careers at 35. You hit peak earning potential at 45 (meaning your career trajectory is more or less set and vertical movement isn't impossible but much harder), and only having 25 years to build a retirement. What's that going to look like? Is retirement event tenable? 

Regarding student loans, I'm similarly unhappy I paid all of mine off. I also never got PLSF because I never knew I needed to be on an income based repayment plan. I did standard repayment so I'd finish them quicker. I agree there is a salt to paying them off only to have other people get the equivalent of a $50K gift or whatever. 

I would be more forgiving with targeted forgiveness that looked at say 5 years of earnings and paid less the longer you were out of school. 

By the way, if anyone reading this does have student loans, you should know there is an executive order in effect until October that allows you to get back credit toward PSLF for all payments you've made as long as you convert to the correct loan type by the end of this Fiscal Year. 

I hear the "woe is me/us" coming through, but honestly, what are you advocating for in your post? Should we just pay for everyone's school? It's simple logic to see how that would fail, right? I mean we already have an entire generation of people who took out loans, got degrees (went to college), and are now in the workforce (or not) complaining about how they are getting crushed by student loan debt. If the return on investment was positive, there would be no issue paying all those loans back. Trouble is, they ARE having trouble. Doesn't that highlight the folly of that entire idea to you? How is over-spending on college going to fix this problem in the end??? Seriously. I want to know what the answer is. If the US government got back more than what they put in, then I'd be all for it because in the end it'd mean less taxes. Is it not implicit that we (the people) are not getting our $$$ worth???

9 hours ago, ecugringo said:

Student Loans:  What I think is really ed up is hte Univ of PHX and other for profit schools that really went after the lower income and undereducated.  They promised a bright future with a BS degree.  Univ of PHX business plan was to grow at a rate of an Ohio State Univ every year.  This is where the Govt should step in and investigate.  I am in favor of those schools being banished and loans forgiven.  I think these for profit schools make up the majority of delinquent loans?

This is all valid, and I'd be more supportive of "forgiving" (transferring) these types of loans. Though, if we're going to make a broad sweeping accusation of fraud that was committed by the Univ of PHX et al, then I want the attorney general/DOJ involved. I want people arrested, tried, convicted, their assets seized, and finally sentenced to prison for defrauding individuals and the US government. But it seems to me that without this follow through by the DOJ, it really amounts to nothing more than a talking point for advocates of free college.

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23 minutes ago, brickhistory said:

Always somebody's elses' fault.

Convenient.

Try harder or smarter.

Not feeling one bit of guilt.

"I got mine, fuck you all if I made it more difficult for you".

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1 hour ago, ViperMan said:

I hear the "woe is me/us" coming through, but honestly, what are you advocating for in your post? Should we just pay for everyone's school? It's simple logic to see how that would fail, right? I mean we already have an entire generation of people who took out loans, got degrees (went to college), and are now in the workforce (or not) complaining about how they are getting crushed by student loan debt. If the return on investment was positive, there would be no issue paying all those loans back. Trouble is, they ARE having trouble. Doesn't that highlight the folly of that entire idea to you? How is over-spending on college going to fix this problem in the end??? Seriously. I want to know what the answer is. If the US government got back more than what they put in, then I'd be all for it because in the end it'd mean less taxes. Is it not implicit that we (the people) are not getting our $$$ worth???

This is all valid, and I'd be more supportive of "forgiving" (transferring) these types of loans. Though, if we're going to make a broad sweeping accusation of fraud that was committed by the Univ of PHX et al, then I want the attorney general/DOJ involved. I want people arrested, tried, convicted, their assets seized, and finally sentenced to prison for defrauding individuals and the US government. But it seems to me that without this follow through by the DOJ, it really amounts to nothing more than a talking point for advocates of free college.

Yeah I believe some of these institutions have been found of Fraud?  But agree, that is what I was referring to.

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23 hours ago, brabus said:

nobody forces these kids to go and get that expensive, but useless degree

Do you have kids? Were you ever one?

 

To imply that a bunch of 16-17 year olds supposed to have the experience and rationality to ignore/refute/buck their parents, teachers, role models, politicians, etc is just absurd. Just like when the boomers complain about millennials and genZ getting participation trophies.

 

Well yeah, clown, who exactly bought the trophy?

 

If your argument blames teenagers, it's probably a pretty weak argument.

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Generations past, to include those who came here prior to us being us worked hard, tried to make it better for their off-spring.

If the off-spring don't appreciate it, but rather blame their parents (which every generation has done), then who really is to blame for outcomes?

But, what the hell, get the vaccine.  You'll be GTG in life.

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11 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Do you have kids? Were you ever one?

 

To imply that a bunch of 16-17 year olds supposed to have the experience and rationality to ignore/refute/buck their parents, teachers, role models, politicians, etc is just absurd. Just like when the boomers complain about millennials and genZ getting participation trophies.

 

Well yeah, clown, who exactly bought the trophy?

 

If your argument blames teenagers, it's probably a pretty weak argument.

The root cause is shitty/lazy parents for sure. They wanted to be their kid’s best friend instead of their parent and mentor. And because of that they’ve produced kids who are entitled, lazy, ignorant, etc. And did you call me a clown for buying trophies? My son’s participation trophy he received in t ball years ago went directly in the trash at the field - he learned a valuable lesson on attitude and effort that day. Several millennial parents were mortified, the difference years later is my son doesn’t have an attitude or work ethic problem, where as their “best friends” do (I know some of them personally, their kids are everything we’ve been talking about). 
 

And now that I think about it, my boomer parents (and friend’s boomer parents) worked hard to give us kids a good life within their means. They parented and mentored us instead of coddling us. They actually did a hell of a job raising that wild pack of animals (err, kids) back in the 80s and 90s. The point - blaming someone else (especially in the past) while sitting on your ass gets nobody anywhere. Again for the 3rd? time, adapt and overcome or be a whiny bitch who will go nowhere. It’s actually pretty simple. 

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9 hours ago, Negatory said:

Cool, we’ve figured out the root cause. Now do we punish the children, when we agree they aren’t the root cause?

How exactly are WE punishing children? Hurdles in life are not synonymous with the Royal we punishing anybody. But I have a feeling that’s exactly what you think.

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On 6/25/2022 at 9:33 AM, brabus said:

And now that I think about it, my boomer parents (and friend’s boomer parents) worked hard to give us kids a good life within their means. They parented and mentored us instead of coddling us. They actually did a hell of a job raising that wild pack of animals (err, kids) back in the 80s and 90s. The point - blaming someone else (especially in the past) while sitting on your ass gets nobody anywhere. Again for the 3rd? time, adapt and overcome or be a whiny bitch who will go nowhere. It’s actually pretty simple. 

Neat. But societies don't work through anecdote. You can pull yourself up by the bootstraps all you want (I certainly did as I sit comfortably in the upper 10%), but the distribution of wealth doesn't lie, and the boomers leveraged trillions of future wealth into their pockets, so now their kids have to pay more for housing, education, transportation, and investments. All while real wages have stagnated or declined. But hey, we can get TVs pretty cheap...

 

And while all this has happened, the upper echelon of society has engineered weapons-grade blinders to avoid the unpleasantness of the increasingly desperate reality of those in the bottom half. It's much more comfortable that way, until the proletariat come knocking on your door with their pitchforks and torches.

 

Most intelligent animals have a very finely-tuned sense of fairness, and brother, it hasn't been fair for a while. COVID was the single greatest transfer of wealth to the top earners in history. Most people can't follow the complicated chain of financial implements used to move money from the middle-class pockets into the investment accounts of the rich(Robinhood, Bitcoin, etc), but they can still smell a scam somewhere in there.

 

What's amazing to me is how the conservatives have been asleep at the wheel. They seem so fucking proud of their non-representative success stories, like yours, that they have completely missed the raping and pillaging of our capitalist system by politicians, foreign actors, and the financial industry. Those who *do* are now subordinated to those who manipulate. 

 

I hope I'm wrong, but we'll know very soon. The chickens have all come home to roost at the same time, and the "smart money" (insiders) are already positioning themselves for the pain. I expect they'll all be on CNBC shilling their holdings to the retail investors before they become much less valuable. The final scam before the bill comes due.

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9 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

They seem so fucking proud of their non-representative success stories, like yours, that they have completely missed the raping and pillaging of our capitalist system by politicians, foreign actors, and the financial industry.

Wait a minute, so now we’re talking about politicians, foreign actors and big finance fucking people over - yeah dude, completely agree. That’s a whole different ball of wax than just broad brush blaming a generation for the woes of the younger generation. 

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57 minutes ago, brabus said:

Wait a minute, so now we’re talking about politicians, foreign actors and big finance fucking people over - yeah dude, completely agree. That’s a whole different ball of wax than just broad brush blaming a generation for the woes of the younger generation. 

This convo belongs in the Investment showdow thread!

Big investment idea(s): complex,  compound investing using OPM (other people $) principle and across multiple markets...we all know info is power/money

...kind of like TSP offering new funds after federal retirements changed to more TSP-matching schemas and less defined-retirement structures (i.e. BRS vs top 3 and older systems)...aka shifting the risk, creating new monetary fluidity using OPM...people with more info should see better returns, the average person is likely worse off. However, those informed people who play market bear and bull runs have new great options which could be quite lucrative. Classic TSP funds don't allow much room for bear market plays, save a TSP loan well timed and, with discipline, invested in growth (or short plays) elsewhere

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