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disgruntledemployee

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On 6/12/2022 at 8:33 AM, Negatory said:

The bottom line is that neoliberal economic policy, which both parties fully support, is driving us off a cliff. Unlimited economic growth in a limited society (actually approaching contracting) isn’t possible. It’s time to raise the interest rates to 6-9% and deal with our poor decisions we have made thinking we could avoid natural economic cycles. The real marker in failure economically was October 2019 when the government saw that quantitative tightening (the right call) made the stock market go down and abandoned all logic to maintain the illusion of a green DJIA. Then COVID happened and the whole of US government lost their collective minds.

Shack. 

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7 hours ago, Prozac said:

Agree 100% but let’s not forget that, for the most part, the boomers have been equally ignorant and obtuse. The ultimate “me” generation’s attitude of “I got mine” has laid landmines for successive generations throughout their time in power. Is it any wonder that the millennials and younger gens feel disillusioned and shafted? Why should they care if they’ve been more or less shut out of participating in the economy and politics anyway? If we want them to look up from their phones and off of mom’s couch, we need to listen to their issues and take them seriously. Instead, they watch us fight over petty cultural issues and shake their heads as their future slides further and further out of reach. 

So the boomer generation is the root cause problem that this country faces? Is that what you're saying? 

"The ultimate 'me' generation..." Wow.

What are the millennials' issues? I'm one so I'd like to hear your thoughts. 

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41 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

So the boomer generation is the root cause problem that this country faces? Is that what you're saying? 

"The ultimate 'me' generation..." Wow.

What are the millennials' issues? I'm one so I'd like to hear your thoughts. 

Well to start while their parents were the greatest generation, the boomers wanted to party on a milk farm in upstate New York marketed as Woodstock rather than serve in their generations’ war. The millennials’ war however has been fought for over 20 years without a draft. 

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49 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

So the boomer generation is the root cause problem that this country faces? Is that what you're saying? 

"The ultimate 'me' generation..." Wow.

What are the millennials' issues? I'm one so I'd like to hear your thoughts. 

This guy articulates many of the issues better than I can:

BL: Every generation is gonna act in its own best interest. The boomers are an outsized generation and have had an outsized effect that is causing challenges for later generations. 
 

Zeihan has some interesting takes as well:

 

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3 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

So the boomer generation is the root cause problem that this country faces? Is that what you're saying? 

"The ultimate 'me' generation..." Wow.

What are the millennials' issues? I'm one so I'd like to hear your thoughts. 

His teacher won’t call him by his preferred pronoun of “Zee”.

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9 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

So the boomer generation is the root cause problem that this country faces? Is that what you're saying? 

"The ultimate 'me' generation..." Wow.

What are the millennials' issues? I'm one so I'd like to hear your thoughts. 

Inability to buy a home.

Wages that have not kept pace with inflation.

Working in an economy radically changed by technology, but led by senior leadership that doesn't understand that technology.

Boomers refusing to retire and relinquish power...most of our elected leadership are boomers.

An era where college costs have spiraled, but the value of that college education is declining.

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59 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Inability to buy a home.

Do you work with/around boomers?

Many don't want to buy a home.  In my experience in the tech industry many millennials are driven by a different definition of success.  I know several who were offered literally millions of dollars but they had to remain fully integrated with the company we were buying for a few years, they pushed back with a state goal of working three days a week and living in a tiny home.  Others have pushed back on coming to the office thinking they are just as effective being virtual and didn't want to make the 30 minute commute.

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Wages that have not kept pace with inflation.

Depends on the sector, if you are millennial with a liberal arts degree working at McDonalds that is probably true, with a technical degree that is completely false.  We've started MANY kids right out of college at six figures and given them $30K spot raises (on top of annual raises), to keep them with our company on critical projects.

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Working in an economy radically changed by technology, but led by senior leadership that doesn't understand that technology.

Disagree, in my experience the millennials often don't understand that their idea or pet project must exist within a viable business model.

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

 

Boomers refusing to retire and relinquish power...most of our elected leadership are boomers.

Don't lump everyone into the category of politicians...that just a different game.

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

An era where college costs have spiraled, but the value of that college education is declining.

Why have college costs spiraled?  Certainly not a correlation to inflation and the economy.  IMHO much of the conflict we see in our country today is the result of our education system run amok.  Universities are almost fully entrenched by the liberal thought police who transitioned the system from teaching to indoctrination, all while wrapping themselves in tenure and ever higher salaries.  I agree that the value of a college education has declined.  I have certainly seen self-taught tech folks become far more effective than those getting a tech degree.  There is also a perception problem in that the millennials don't seem interested in the trades which are critically short and paying BIG $ right out of high school.

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I see millennials/Gen Z every day crushing life; the difference is they have values and an outlook on life that is contrasted with the entitled, lazy, shit work ethic, etc. that other millennials/Gen Z have. Not to say they aren’t facing “unfair” hurdles, but every generation has faced “unfair” hurdles. You can either adapt and overcome, or you can be a whiny little bitch - those are essentially the two options. Millennials generally seem to fall into one of those categories. Props to the ones who choose to not wallow in self pity.

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3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Do you work with/around boomers?

Many don't want to buy a home.  In my experience in the tech industry many millennials are driven by a different definition of success.  I know several who were offered literally millions of dollars but they had to remain fully integrated with the company we were buying for a few years, they pushed back with a state goal of working three days a week and living in a tiny home.  Others have pushed back on coming to the office thinking they are just as effective being virtual and didn't want to make the 30 minute commute.

Do you believe the tech industry represents the majority of millenials?  Millenials who, keep in mind, are in their 40s, likely with kids?

Quote

Depends on the sector, if you are millennial with a liberal arts degree working at McDonalds that is probably true, with a technical degree that is completely false.  We've started MANY kids right out of college at six figures and given them $30K spot raises (on top of annual raises), to keep them with our company on critical projects.

The tech industry isn't the majority of the economy.

In 1980, the US median income was $21,020.  Median home price was $47,200.  Just over two year's salary would buy a home.  Average cost of a 4-year degree for a student living on campus was about $9,500.

In 2020, the US median income was $67,521.  Median home price was $375,000.  So now we're up to 7 years of work.  Average cost of a 4-year degree at an in-state university is up to $101K for a student that lives on campus.  Off-campus, closer to $40K.  And many colleges are more expensive.

You can wave around the high-earning tech jobs, but those are the vast minority of the employment landscape.  The same jobs do not have the same earning power they used to.  Hell, when I was making minimum wage back in the 90's, I could buy a car, go to the movies, buy clothes, etc.  My daughter needed help buying a car, can barely afford to keep gas in it, and constantly has to make choices between going to the theater or getting fast food.

Quote

Disagree, in my experience the millennials often don't understand that their idea or pet project must exist within a viable business model.

And yet, we have senior leaders who can't recognize work-life balance, that working from home can be productive, or hell, even set up their own printers and monitors.

Quote

Don't lump everyone into the category of politicians...that just a different game.

OK...how many CEOs, VPs, or chairman positions are held by anyone under the age of 60?  Damned few.

Quote

Why have college costs spiraled?  Certainly not a correlation to inflation and the economy.  IMHO much of the conflict we see in our country today is the result of our education system run amok.  Universities are almost fully entrenched by the liberal thought police who transitioned the system from teaching to indoctrination, all while wrapping themselves in tenure and ever higher salaries.  I agree that the value of a college education has declined.  I have certainly seen self-taught tech folks become far more effective than those getting a tech degree.  There is also a perception problem in that the millennials don't seem interested in the trades which are critically short and paying BIG $ right out of high school.

I think we're in agreement about some of the causes of college tuition spiraling, but the fact remains that this entire generation was told, by boomers, all through their primary and high school education that they needed to go to college, all while the policies set by the same boomers placed college financially out of reach for them.  Regardless of the reason, that is still a major issue facing younger generations.

The millenials are the first generation to fare worse than their parents in terms of income growth, wealth accumulation, and quality of life.

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1 hour ago, brabus said:

I see millennials/Gen Z every day crushing life; the difference is they have values and an outlook on life that is contrasted with the entitled, lazy, shit work ethic, etc. that other millennials/Gen Z have. Not to say they aren’t facing “unfair” hurdles, but every generation has faced “unfair” hurdles. You can either adapt and overcome, or you can be a whiny little bitch - those are essentially the two options. Millennials generally seem to fall into one of those categories. Props to the ones who choose to not wallow in self pity.

Agree 100%.  My Brother in law is early 30's super techy and educated.  He would not make a great sales guy or maybe even manager but he works in cyber security and does pretty well.  He has no interest in owning a large home with a fence, 2 kids and dog.  Him and his wife have a small city home, small cars and work from home.  They also want to be able to say it, pack up and move somewhere else and do hte same job.  Hell I did that myself.  

IMHO the corporate office culture has died and those managers that can't adapt and overcome will fail.  PPL realized there is value in getting an hour+ of your life back from your daily commute.

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22 minutes ago, ecugringo said:

Agree 100%.  My Brother in law is early 30's super techy and educated.  He would not make a great sales guy or maybe even manager but he works in cyber security and does pretty well.  He has no interest in owning a large home with a fence, 2 kids and dog.  Him and his wife have a small city home, small cars and work from home.  They also want to be able to say it, pack up and move somewhere else and do hte same job.  Hell I did that myself.  

IMHO the corporate office culture has died and those managers that can't adapt and overcome will fail.  PPL realized there is value in getting an hour+ of your life back from your daily commute.

There was a huge culture shift I think when millennials had their "come to Jesus moment" following the 2008 recession and started to carve their own rules into society. 

You had an entire generation raised to believe they could do anything, be anything and mean something to the world. Then the 2008 financial collapse happened, most couldn't role into the corporate world, and there was this sudden realization that 99.99% of people in the world are cogs and nothing else. 

I think this was hard to swallow for a lot of my generation. It certainly was for me and I "made it." (House, cars, 6 figure job, etc...) 

This prompted a change in the idea of success. Generally companies want employees with high engagement and motivation. But younger people see this as a wasted effort. It's not going to make them the next CEO in an industry they don't really care much about, and when companies talk about high engagement all millennials here is worker exploitation and people willing to pull weekends and holidays without bonus pay. So for younger people they changed the work bargaining position to one with a higher emphasis on self, and work life balance. They only have one life, why should they slave it at a job they hate to make the next Jeff Bezos rich. Jeff Bezos really believes in a Utopia where everyone works in a circular service industry and production is completely mechanized. But that doesn't drive engagement with today's society. Driving delivery vans without piss breaks is not going to make people feel valued to society. 

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1 hour ago, FLEA said:

They only have one life, why should they slave it at a job they hate to make the next Jeff Bezos rich

That’s a very valid viewpoint and I don’t at all blame someone for having it. In fact, I subscribe to it within reason. The millennial problem manifests when they don’t want to work for “the man,” but then complain when they can’t buy a house, the car they want, fill in the blank. Well, either start your own business and be your own boss, or suck it up and join the not-min wage work force and work as much as you need to have the life you want. Every millennial has the opportunity to make enough money to live a good life, but many of them aren’t willing to put that work in and expect “the good life” to be handed to them. Those individuals are the definition of entitlement. 

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22 hours ago, Prozac said:

This guy articulates many of the issues better than I can:

BL: Every generation is gonna act in its own best interest. The boomers are an outsized generation and have had an outsized effect that is causing challenges for later generations. 
 

Zeihan has some interesting takes as well:

 

I saw the first video several days ago one morning. I typically watch YouTube from 0445-0515 while I drink coffee before I workout prior to showing up to work at 0645-0700. It was educational and entertaining. Unfortunately millennials think they are owed something which is probably perpetuated by the media and social media - You aren't owed shit. Work hard, be dedicated, and generally things work out. Spend your money on vacations, double venti coffees, and it doesn't. 

20 hours ago, dream big said:

His teacher won’t call him by his preferred pronoun of “Zee”.

Nice. 

14 hours ago, pawnman said:

Inability to buy a home.

Wages that have not kept pace with inflation.

Working in an economy radically changed by technology, but led by senior leadership that doesn't understand that technology.

Boomers refusing to retire and relinquish power...most of our elected leadership are boomers.

An era where college costs have spiraled, but the value of that college education is declining.

Most people I know "could" buy a home, they are just unwilling to relocate. I live in San Diego where the median home price is over $1m. The same people who complain about home prices, I drink with fairly often, and our individual tabs are greater than $200.

Valid regarding wages and inflation - I just got a 3.5% raise when inflation is 8.6%. Sucks when for every $100k you make you are losing $4k just due to inflation. 

It is the responsibility of the individual to understand the technology if they want to benefit from it, not the government's responsibility to help people understand how it impacts them. We have forgotten the concept of "personal responsibility." Its unfortunate. 

Would you retire if you are crushing it? Human beings are inherently selfish. People now for some reason don't believe that and want to think that people are inherently "good" when they aren't. 

Sure, college costs have risen at a ridiculous rate. But many of those burdened by insane college loans pursued useless degrees AND used those loans to finance their living expenses for those four plus years. 

Millennials also have vastly different values than the baby boomers who wanted to start a family early and own property. Many millennials want freedom and to work as little as required in order to satisfy their expenses.

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25 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

Unfortunately millennials think they are owed something which is probably perpetuated by the media and social media

I’ll go one better and say their parents likely played a large role in the entitlement attitude. I agree with you that there are some major disconnects between the younger and older generations when it comes to ambition, work ethic, and intestinal fortitude. The stereotypes are definitely grounded in reality. At the same time, there are some very real obstacles that have been placed in their way and most of us would rather bicker over pronouns, windmills, and purple teletubbies than address issues that will have huge and lasting effects on the future of this country. I don’t have all the solutions but here’s one to start with: Want your college loans forgiven? Done, but the catch is two years of national service. Sort of a neo-GI Bill to jumpstart the new generation. 

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36 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

Millennials also have vastly different values than the baby boomers who wanted to start a family early and own property. Many millennials want freedom and to work as little as required in order to satisfy their expenses.

You ever stop and think that a lot of Millennials can't afford to start a family early and own property? Probably not. Curious what qualifies as a non-useless degree?

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5 minutes ago, Prozac said:

I’ll go one better and say their parents likely played a large role in the entitlement attitude. I agree with you that there are some major disconnects between the younger and older generations when it comes to ambition, work ethic, and intestinal fortitude. The stereotypes are definitely grounded in reality. At the same time, there are some very real obstacles that have been placed in their way and most of us would rather bicker over pronouns, windmills, and purple teletubbies than address issues that will have huge and lasting effects on the future of this country. I don’t have all the solutions but here’s one to start with: Want your college loans forgiven? Done, but the catch is two years of national service. Sort of a neo-GI Bill to jumpstart the new generation. 

By millennial parents, you mean boomers? How do I know? I'm 40, a millennial, and my parents are boomers. College loans are already forgiven if you attain 100% VA disability, which would require national service via the military.

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6 minutes ago, Prozac said:

I’ll go one better and say their parents likely played a large role in the entitlement attitude. I agree with you that there are some major disconnects between the younger and older generations when it comes to ambition, work ethic, and intestinal fortitude. The stereotypes are definitely grounded in reality. At the same time, there are some very real obstacles that have been placed in their way and most of us would rather bicker over pronouns, windmills, and purple teletubbies than address issues that will have huge and lasting effects on the future of this country. I don’t have all the solutions but here’s one to start with: Want your college loans forgiven? Done, but the catch is two years of national service. Sort of a neo-GI Bill to jumpstart the new generation. 

I don't know that it was the boomers that played a large role in millennials' attitudes, but rather millennials doing that to their children. If you have a chance pick up The Coddling of the American Mind. Phenomenal read that explains so many of our current societies' ills. Or just look listen to Rogan's interview with Greg Lukianoff.

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3 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

You ever stop and think that a lot of Millennials can't afford to start a family early and own property? Probably not. Curious what qualifies as a non-useless degree?

You're right, maybe doing it early isn't the right answer now. Maybe get established, make your life stable and then start a family. People live longer now...?

Non-useless - Math, actual sciences (not the social science degree I got because I knew I wanted to fly and only had to run fast, do lots of pullups, and have a degree for the Marine Corps), engineering... 

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Just now, VMFA187 said:

You're right, maybe doing it early isn't the right answer now. Maybe get established, make your life stable and then start a family. People live longer now...?

Non-useless - Math, actual sciences (not the social science degree I got because I knew I wanted to fly and only had to run fast, do lots of pullups, and have a degree for the Marine Corps), engineering... 

I’m a PM for a bunch of engineers. Why am I the PM? Because I don’t have weaponized autism and I have a social science undergrad and STEM grad degree. Do you want to live in a world with all STEM majors? I sure as shit don’t. I also don’t want to live in a world full of philosophy majors. The worst pilots I ever flew with were STEM majors. Why? They’re too analytical and a lot of the time that doesn’t translate over to flying skill. Best pilots I flew with? Business/History majors.

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1 minute ago, Sua Sponte said:

I’m a PM for a bunch of engineers. Why am I the PM? Because I don’t have weaponized autism and I have a social science undergrad and STEM grad degree. Do you want to live in a world with all STEM majors? I sure as shit don’t. I also don’t want to live in a world full of philosophy majors. The worst pilots I ever flew with were STEM majors. Why? They’re too analytical and a lot of the time that doesn’t translate over to flying skill. Best pilots I flew with? Business/History majors.

Concur. I'd take the high school quarterback with a 3.0 in international relations over the above for a fighter pilot.

If you want a degree that pays for the cost of itself and then makes money, maybe get a degree that has some value in the commercial sector. 

We are a tiny minority of people who buck the trend of degrees and wages. 

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Just now, VMFA187 said:

Concur. I'd take the high school quarterback with a 3.0 in international relations over the above for a fighter pilot.

If you want a degree that pays for the cost of itself and then makes money, maybe get a degree that has some value in the commercial sector. 

We are a tiny minority of people who buck the trend of degrees and wages. 

Also lots of people don't realize things like gender studies degrees are pulling six figures now as fortune 500s try to sweep up every advocate they can for their D&I initiatives to prevent another C-suiter from being front page times for sexual impropriety. 

Or that philosophy majors with tech knowledge are going on to be AI ethicist that are documenting the moral boundaries of next generation computing. 

Its difficult to classify a persons aptitude or value based solely on a degree. As it is, degrees aren't incredibly vocational and are more indicative of a person's problem solving technique and critical thinking capability than actual industry experience. 

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11 hours ago, pawnman said:

Do you believe the tech industry represents the majority of millenials?  Millenials who, keep in mind, are in their 40s, likely with kids?

The tech industry isn't the majority of the economy.

In 1980, the US median income was $21,020.  Median home price was $47,200.  Just over two year's salary would buy a home.  Average cost of a 4-year degree for a student living on campus was about $9,500.

In 2020, the US median income was $67,521.  Median home price was $375,000.  So now we're up to 7 years of work.  Average cost of a 4-year degree at an in-state university is up to $101K for a student that lives on campus.  Off-campus, closer to $40K.  And many colleges are more expensive.

You can wave around the high-earning tech jobs, but those are the vast minority of the employment landscape.  The same jobs do not have the same earning power they used to.  Hell, when I was making minimum wage back in the 90's, I could buy a car, go to the movies, buy clothes, etc.  My daughter needed help buying a car, can barely afford to keep gas in it, and constantly has to make choices between going to the theater or getting fast food.

And yet, we have senior leaders who can't recognize work-life balance, that working from home can be productive, or hell, even set up their own printers and monitors.

OK...how many CEOs, VPs, or chairman positions are held by anyone under the age of 60?  Damned few.

I think we're in agreement about some of the causes of college tuition spiraling, but the fact remains that this entire generation was told, by boomers, all through their primary and high school education that they needed to go to college, all while the policies set by the same boomers placed college financially out of reach for them.  Regardless of the reason, that is still a major issue facing younger generations.

The millenials are the first generation to fare worse than their parents in terms of income growth, wealth accumulation, and quality of life.

Shack. Sounds exactly like my rant when these boomer captains bitch about their kids not meeting their expectations.

 

Why aren't you doing well in the world we control?

 

Now we get the privilege of paying for their decades of financial malfeasance while simultaneously funding the social security program they bankrupted, which we will never benefit from.

 

And they have the audacity of invoking capitalism when their kids flirt with socialism, when in reality their kids are only leaning towards socialist solutions because they watched their parents' generation drag capitalism into an alley and rape it for the last 30 years.

 

And just wait, their over-leveraged, over invested 401k accounts are going to implode and they'll be back to the government trough for another bailout, all while lecturing us on responsibility and hard work 😂🤣

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8 hours ago, brabus said:

Every millennial has the opportunity to make enough money to live a good life

This is simply not true in a historical context. As pointed out, the median income is no longer capable of buying the same things. And the distribution of wealth over the generations at specific ages has shifted dramatically lower. The college scam has started millions off with crippling debt. 

 

Millennials did not create this world, their parents did.

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