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disgruntledemployee

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5 minutes ago, FLEA said:

It's a John Stewart quote that went viral a few weeks ago.

If you’re trying to make a serious argument, then I would leave out the excessive exaggerations.  
 

Oh, and here’s a question:  For the enlisted who are on food stamps, how many of these same members have car payments for cars they purchased over $5K, have video games, have a tv/phone newer than mine, buy alcohol, etc.  Plenty of enlisted are not on food stamps—be pretty interesting to compare the lives of those on them vs not on them.  Life is all about choices.

That all being said, do I think the enlisted should be paid more?  Sure.  But let’s not pretend that many who struggle financially always make the best life choices.

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10 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

If you’re trying to make a serious argument, then I would leave out the excessive exaggerations.  
 

Oh, and here’s a question:  For the enlisted who are on food stamps, how many of these same members have car payments for cars they purchased over $5K, have video games, have a tv/phone newer than mine, buy alcohol, etc.  Plenty of enlisted are not on food stamps—be pretty interesting to compare the lives of those on them vs not on them.  Life is all about choices.

That all being said, do I think the enlisted should be paid more?  Sure.  But let’s not pretend that many who struggle financially always make the best life choices.

Food stamps qualification is based on income and family size. It has nothing to do with payments or expenses. You simply have to make below a certain multiplier of the poverty line as a family unit. 

I dunno,.... I think I'm done with this conversation. You all lost credibility in my eyes. Thought there were actual leaders on this forum. All I hear are a bunch of lazy pussies now who are only infatuated with their own success. 

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2 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Food stamps qualification is based on income and family size. It has nothing to do with payments or expenses. You simply have to make below a certain multiplier of the poverty line as a family unit. 

I dunno,.... I think I'm done with this conversation. You all lost credibility in my eyes. Thought there were actual leaders on this forum. All I hear are a bunch of lazy pussies now who are only infatuated with their own success. 

Nah, you’re just not able to make a credible argument without appealing to emotions.  Life is about choices…if you’re an E-4 with a stay at home wife and 2-3 kids, yeah, you might not be earning a high enough income to support your desired life style…especially if you’re also not making the best financial decisions.

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I was surprised that as an E7 with five kids(extended family, two were mine)that I qualified for WIC/.gov help, this was in FL. I took advantage of it. I was also surprised that my tax refund was more than I paid in. Didn't think that was possible. This was '96.

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12 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Nah, you’re just not able to make a credible argument without appealing to emotions.  Life is about choices…if you’re an E-4 with a stay at home wife and 2-3 kids, yeah, you might not be earning a high enough income to support your desired life style…especially if you’re also not making the best financial decisions.

I can't make an argument because you are so far behind on the conversation I literally dont have the time to type a novel to get you caught up. The expectation was you were an officer and already knew this. The fact you don't is where you lost all credibility with me. I have nothing for you. 

https://www.benefits.va.gov/benefits/docs/veteraneconomicopportunityreport2015.pdf

https://www.hiringourheroes.org/resources/hidden-financial-costs-military-spouse-unemployment/

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4 minutes ago, FLEA said:

I can't make an argument because you are so far behind on the conversation I literally dont have the time to type a novel to get you caught up. The expectation was you were an officer and already knew this. The fact you don't is where you lost all credibility with me. I have nothing for you. 

https://www.benefits.va.gov/benefits/docs/veteraneconomicopportunityreport2015.pdf

https://www.hiringourheroes.org/resources/hidden-financial-costs-military-spouse-unemployment/

Yet you didn’t refute anything that I said…you just got emotional and yet said I was the one who lost all credibility.  And who was the one quoting an entertainer who wasn’t even close to being accurate?

I’ll give you another chance:  Why are the majority of enlisted members not on food stamps?  What are they doing differently than those who are on food stamps?

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2 hours ago, FLEA said:

I'm going to ignore your political comments because veterans are largely a bipartisan space but even beyond that the most recent problems in the space have been caused by the GOP not the DNC. Remember who blocked the PACT act the first time?

I’m gonna ignore your political comments and begin by immediately making a political comment. Here’s a link for what that word actual means: ignore definition.

As far as officers being leaders goes I tend to agree that most of the ppl I’ve met I’m who were in command were managers not leaders. However, if you want to talk responsibility for the shit lives young enlisted live then I recommend you take a look at the E-8/9s that are burning morale to the ground.

I can only speak to the mx enlisted side, but if the rest of the enlisted service is full of leadership as toxic as what I’ve seen there, then no wonder young airmen are having issues. Can’t imagine why there is a shortage of mx personnel.. oh wait it’s because you get nailed to the wall for minor mistakes. Meanwhile SMSgt chucklenuts is banging anyone but his wife every TDY. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve dealt with some great SNCOs, but they were the absolute minority. Most of them couldn’t lead a pair of steak knives out of a wet paper bag.

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10 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Yet you didn’t refute anything that I said…you just got emotional and yet said I was the one who lost all credibility.  And who was the one quoting an entertainer who wasn’t even close to being accurate?

I’ll give you another chance:  Why are the majority of enlisted members not on food stamps?  What are they doing differently than those who are on food stamps?

An entertainer? Bro John Stewart is one of the most important lobbyist for Veterans on the hill right now. Don't relegate him to a simple container. What do you know? You're just a helo pilot right? 

Why are enlisted on food stamps? Because they keep getting assigned to high COL areas I guess? WTF kind of answer do you want. I already explained how the program works. It's based on your household income and zip code. Enlisted have zero control on one of those factors and minimal control on the other. (No freedom to seek outside employment, spouses have barriers finding work or working within field). 

You want to make this it's a behavior problem and I've already told you several times spending behavior isn't accounted in qualification. 

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2 hours ago, FLEA said:

kick the ladder down behind you for the people's who backs you rode on to the way to the top. 

Dude, you lost credibility by making this blanket statement that apparently applies to every officer. Sure there are shitty ones, but in my entire career I’ve seen maybe one or two that meet this criteria of truly fucking over enlisted for personal gain. I know there’s more out there than one or two, but you acting like it’s a large portion is ridiculous.

 

2 hours ago, FLEA said:

Enjoy your six figure airline salary and $500K McMansion.

You mean the things a guy earned via years of hard work and sacrifice? Just because someone is deemed successful doesn’t mean they’re a POS and/or didn’t earn it. Unless you’re a retarded progressive, then that irrational thought probably does make sense. Again, painting with that broad brush only destroys your credibility, not someone else’s. 

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6 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

I’m gonna ignore your political comments and begin by immediately making a political comment. Here’s a link for what that word actual means: ignore definition.

As far as officers being leaders goes I tend to agree that most of the ppl I’ve met I’m who were in command were managers not leaders. However, if you want to talk responsibility for the shit lives young enlisted live then I recommend you take a look at the E-8/9s that are burning morale to the ground.

I can only speak to the mx enlisted side, but if the rest of the enlisted service is full of leadership as toxic as what I’ve seen there, then no wonder young airmen are having issues. Can’t imagine why there is a shortage of mx personnel.. oh wait it’s because you get nailed to the wall for minor mistakes. Meanwhile SMSgt chucklenuts is banging anyone but his wife every TDY. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve dealt with some great SNCOs, but they were the absolute minority. Most of them couldn’t lead a pair of steak knives out of a wet paper bag.

I will grant you there are definitely toxic E-8s / E-9s out there. Who do you think is standing behind them? 

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2 minutes ago, FLEA said:

An entertainer? Bro John Stewart is one of the most important lobbyist for Veterans on the hill right now. Don't relegate him to a simple container. What do you know? You're just a helo pilot right?

You’re really struggling here man.  And if Stewart is so smart on the issue then he wouldn’t have been so wrong on stats.

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1 minute ago, HeloDude said:

You’re really struggling here man.  And if Stewart is so smart on the issue then he wouldn’t have been so wrong on stats.

Dude most competent adults understand an exaggeration. I don't give a shit. Im done here. You're all worthless to me. The fact you don't have the balls to advocate your people tells me everything I need. Youre shills. Youre your own toxic leaders and frankly deserve every grievance you have at the service. I'll never forget the day a dude called HeloDude told me he deserves thanks for his service but he doesn't even have the humility or grace to thank the door gunner that went out with him, with zero control of the mission execution, the danger, the risk. WTF man? Why would I ever encourage anyone to service. Get fucked. 

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1 minute ago, FLEA said:

Dude most competent adults understand an exaggeration. I don't give a shit. Im done here. You're all worthless to me. The fact you don't have the balls to advocate your people tells me everything I need. Youre shills. Youre your own toxic leaders and frankly deserve every grievance you have at the service. I'll never forget the day a dude called HeloDude told me he deserves thanks for his service but he doesn't even have the humility or grace to thank the door gunner that went out with him, with zero control of the mission execution, the danger, the risk. WTF man? Why would I ever encourage anyone to service. Get fucked. 

You keep saying you’re done, I’ve lost all credibility, blah blah blah.  And you keep swearing because you’re so upset…are you ok?  Honestly?

Like I said, I’m all for the enlisted getting paid more.  But acting like life choices has nothing to do with those who struggle/their financial woes is completely disingenuous.  The most successful enlisted members I worked with lived well below/within their means and made good choices—what does this mean?  They had a basic car that was 5-10 years old, they didn’t blow their per diem (and then some) at the bar, they didn’t have a motorcycle in addition to their car, they didn’t go to the strip bars, they’re we’re spending money on different women all the time, they didn’t have tattoos, they were alway taking educational classes, on and on.  And the ones that didn’t do as well, well, they did the opposite of all those things and more.

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I was enlisted 9.5 years, the rest officer.  AD.  I was a sheetmetal dude on F-16's and KC-10 Boom.  I came in as an E-1.   I fucked up and got chick pregnant as an E-3.  I grew up Catholic, so did she.  We got married.  I had zero CC debt, student loan debt and a cheap ass Honda Civic with no AC.   I used WIC because I had too.  I was embarrassed having to put my frozen OJ, and baby formula on the counter and paying using WIC.  There were other airmen I personally knew that were in similar situations.  There were a fuck ton of financial dumbasses I met as young enlisted man, but the ones with families sometimes struggled and weren't always financial dumbasses.  

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38 minutes ago, FLEA said:

I will grant you there are definitely toxic E-8s / E-9s out there. Who do you think is standing behind them? 

Chief bass and the rest of the SNCO core that would rather have a group circle jerk so they can get promoted than take care of their ppl. The enlisted senior leadership is no different than the officer side. The difference is that senior enlisted leaders know senior officers will do what those officers have been trained to do, trust their SNCOs. Those SNCOs then have a free hand to do as they please and crush anyone that gets in their way.

Edited by Boomer6
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12 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

I was enlisted 9.5 years, the rest officer.  AD.  I was a sheetmetal dude on F-16's and KC-10 Boom.  I came in as an E-1.   I fucked up and got chick pregnant as an E-3.  I grew up Catholic, so did she.  We got married.  I had zero CC debt, student loan debt and a cheap ass Honda Civic with no AC.   I used WIC because I had too.  I was embarrassed having to put my frozen OJ, and baby formula on the counter and paying using WIC.  There were other airmen I personally knew that were in similar situations.  There were a fuck ton of financial dumbasses I met as young enlisted man, but the ones with families sometimes struggled and weren't always financial dumbasses.  

A 2Lt with 4 kids is going to struggle as well.  Life choices include proper family planning.

I grew up in the 80s and was one of 4 kids…before my mom went back to work full time, money was extremely tight.  I had an older sister, so all my clothes were hand me downs from neighbors.  Tuna fish casserole and spaghetti were common dinners…that and sometimes pancakes, or grilled cheese and tomato soup.  Rarely ever went out for dinner, to include fast food.  Only time I ever got a new toy was my birthday or Xmas, and it definitely wasn’t excessive.  Only vacation was driving once every couple of years to see our cousins a few states away.  My parents were never on food stamps…maybe they could have, but that’s not what they wanted.  And my father was a civil engineer.  
 

What I’m saying is that our culture today (including those in the military) is to make excuses for those who make less than good choices.  Living an early life that is less than ideal teaches you and your kids many important lessons.

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1 minute ago, Boomer6 said:

Chief bass and the rest of the SNCO core that would rather have a group circle jerk so they can get promoted than take care of their ppl

I didn't remember the ppl being that hard (sts) /s.  Or getting invited to the good circle jerks (ones that get people promoted) for that matter.  Lol

I've been out for a few years now.  

 

But seriously, I agree with your statement about Officer, SNCO trust

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11 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

A 2Lt with 4 kids is going to struggle as well.  Life choices include proper family planning.

I grew up in the 80s and was one of 4 kids…before my mom went back to work full time, money was extremely tight.  I had an older sister, so all my clothes were hand me downs from neighbors.  Tuna fish casserole and spaghetti were common dinners…that and sometimes pancakes, or grilled cheese and tomato soup.  Rarely ever went out for dinner, to include fast food.  Only time I ever got a new toy was my birthday or Xmas, and it definitely wasn’t excessive.  Only vacation was driving once every couple of years to see our cousins a few states away.  My parents were never on food stamps…maybe they could have, but that’s not what they wanted.  And my father was a civil engineer.  
 

What I’m saying is that our culture today (including those in the military) is to make excuses for those who make less than good choices.  Living an early life that is less than ideal teaches you and your kids many important lessons.

We grew up in very similar conditions, except my Dad hated tuna and was a plumber lol.   

I agree 100 percent with you.  There is a victim mentality in all aspects of the younger American generation (get off my lawn @nsplayr lol).   I don't feel sorry for people who make dumb decisions, especially if they dont learn from their mistakes or quibble about how they were not wrong.  You and I both know how crazy back enders can live.   Lol.  

Edit: I'm glad Capt Biff never had to fly with Amn Biff lol

Edited by Biff_T
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On 5/6/2023 at 5:06 PM, FLEA said:

You all lost credibility in my eyes. Thought there were actual leaders on this forum. All I hear are a bunch of lazy pussies now who are only infatuated with their own success. 

If you don't do the volunteer work I do, you're a lazy pussy is a pretty hot take.

 

Sometimes you seem like a rational, intelligent person with some contrarian views, then you post some unhinged emotional nonsense like this and make me wonder if you're just another nut with too much time in front of a keyboard.

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On 5/6/2023 at 5:51 PM, FLEA said:

You're all worthless to me. The fact you don't have the balls to advocate your people tells me everything I need. Youre shills. Youre your own toxic leaders and frankly deserve every grievance you have at the service. I'll never forget the day a dude called HeloDude told me he deserves thanks for his service but he doesn't even have the humility or grace to thank the door gunner that went out with him, with zero control of the mission execution, the danger, the risk. WTF man? Why would I ever encourage anyone to service. Get fucked. 

And here you confirmed it. I guess I should have seen this from earlier posts. 

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Or.. and hear me out for a second.. two things can be true at once..

Thing 1: go look at the enlisted pay scales and they are scarily low

Thing 2: lots of enlisted people make poor financial decisions that only exacerbate thing #1

maybe even a third thing!

Thing 3: enlisted pay/benefits are better than the average job you can get as a non college educated 18 year old

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On 5/6/2023 at 4:06 PM, FLEA said:

Food stamps qualification is based on income and family size

Yes.. which is why having a bunch of dependents you can't afford is a quick way to get on food stamps.. and why family planning is important. 
 

Life planning decisions impact both qualification, and your eventual spending. It seems like you're being willfully obtuse here and it's really strange. Your family size is an entirely controllable thing.

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@Pooter Good points, especially #3. A new guy without a family in my neck of the woods is making $25/hr (assuming 40 hr week shoe clerk), in the 12% tax bracket, has free & comprehensive health care, 4 years in has a solid GI Bill to use, gaining good resume-building experience, potentially had an enlistment bonus, and more.

I’m not arguing they shouldn’t be paid more, but how about some people show me all the other options for an 18 yr old with zero skills that beat this deal.

 

 

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1 hour ago, brabus said:

@Pooter Good points, especially #3. A new guy without a family in my neck of the woods is making $25/hr (assuming 40 hr week shoe clerk), in the 12% tax bracket, has free & comprehensive health care, 4 years in has a solid GI Bill to use, gaining good resume-building experience, potentially had an enlistment bonus, and more.

I’m not arguing they shouldn’t be paid more, but how about some people show me all the other options for an 18 yr old with zero skills that beat this deal.

 

 

We are truly living in an era where just about anyone can feel like they’re a victim for one reason or another.  One of those areas is the “haves vs have nots”…the enlisted, more specifically the younger ones, can easily believe they’re part of the “have nots”, especially when compared to the officers.  But like you said, if a young enlisted member plays it smart, they can easily exponentially improve their pay, education, skills, etc in not a long time.  But hey, it’s easier to play the victim card or tell people they’re a victim.

Edited by HeloDude
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