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Apologies for the detail gents, a vector check was in order.

Break break

I can't help but find myself in the mindset that I broke my back and stressed the f$$k out of my family to get a masters just prior to my majors board so why can't the young capt do the same.

Really dude you need a vector check. This is the way we've always done thought is BS

I say get it done regardless you can't trust big blue.

This is the only good statement you had

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What the AAD really takes away from is quality family time with the wife and kids. When I'm not being overworked, I ended up spending far too much of my "free" time working towards a degree I never wanted or needed.

THIS!!

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I can't help but find myself in the mindset that I broke my back and stressed the f$$k out of my family to get a masters just prior to my majors board so why can't the young capt do the same. I rode the Mosley myth of not needing one to my own detriment but these days why risk it? Get it while you can, spend a few hours Saturday morning when you are hungover and space it out. I say get it done regardless you can't trust big blue.

Sad that no one trusts the Air Force to do what is right for its people. There are many reasons for this, and it shows how broken we are as a force. My two cents find a program that excites you. Stanford offers engineering degrees online, and some school, too lazy to search, out there offers a Masters in outdoor recreation. If you are really excited, start. The emotion will carry you through any of the previously mentioned horror stories. If you still feel tepid, this is your back up and casually search for others. I wish I had enough faith in the system to say don't do it, but also do you want to take courses as a Major doing some form of AWC while taking kids to soccer practice.

Warning Kool-aid ahead

I am nearly done my MBA from a brick and mortar school. It was hard work, and the best i could find without school visits, hard to plan when you are in AMC. Honestly, it has made me a better officer because of the breadth of my education. Plus when I went to SOS, the Air Force thought several topics were important enough to spend multiple lectures on; those topics I typically had semester long course about, e.g. organizational psychology. Clarification: no SOS does not make you a good leader

Bottom line. Do what you love, and strive be a better person each day. Only you can answer that question everything else is advice.

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Sad that no one trusts the Air Force to do what is right for its people. There are many reasons for this, and it shows how broken we are as a force. My two cents find a program that excites you. Stanford offers engineering degrees online, and some school, too lazy to search, out there offers a Masters in outdoor recreation. If you are really excited, start. The emotion will carry you through any of the previously mentioned horror stories. If you still feel tepid, this is your back up and casually search for others. I wish I had enough faith in the system to say don't do it, but also do you want to take courses as a Major doing some form of AWC while taking kids to soccer practice.

Warning Kool-aid ahead

I am nearly done my MBA from a brick and mortar school. It was hard work, and the best i could find without school visits, hard to plan when you are in AMC. Honestly, it has made me a better officer because of the breadth of my education. Plus when I went to SOS, the Air Force thought several topics were important enough to spend multiple lectures on; those topics I typically had semester long course about, e.g. organizational psychology. Clarification: no SOS does not make you a good leader

Bottom line. Do what you love, and strive be a better person each day. Only you can answer that question everything else is advice.

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I had looked into getting my Master's in EE. Problem is too effing expensive. The only correspondence degree that was anywhere close to covered by tuition assistance was from Central Southern Arkansas or some such nonsense. Stanford was over 1k per credit hour, as was University of Illinois, which used to have affordable online degrees.

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I had looked into getting my Master's in EE. Problem is too effing expensive. The only correspondence degree that was anywhere close to covered by tuition assistance was from Central Southern Arkansas or some such nonsense. Stanford was over 1k per credit hour, as was University of Illinois, which used to have affordable online degrees.

This one's affordable. http://www.afit.edu/ENG/programs.cfm?p=1&a=pd

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I'd say as long as you don't really have any real job to do that's fine. But once you enter training, knock that shit off and be good at your job. If you have as much of a head start as you seem to, finishing it should be cake if the pendulum swings again.

I'm almost done with my FTU actually. I've been taking only one class at a time because I don't want to overload myself & still be able to get drunk on Friday nights. I figure I could get it done at a leasurely pace and not be rushed at all while still having enough time to study my ass off for my job (that's all I do every day when not simming or something.) Also, I'm single with no kids. I'm sure this automatically frees up so much time I otherwise wouldn't have. One dude in my flight at UCT had 4 kids...I don't know how he did it. I can tell you a master's is definitely one of the last things on his mind. I wouldn't want to do it either! It is definitely bs that this is such a stringent 'requirement' that isn't actually a requirement.

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I had looked into getting my Master's in EE. Problem is too effing expensive. The only correspondence degree that was anywhere close to covered by tuition assistance was from Central Southern Arkansas or some such nonsense. Stanford was over 1k per credit hour, as was University of Illinois, which used to have affordable online degrees.

. I did the U of I MEng degree. It's free if you qualify for the IL Veterans Grant. Look into it if you think you might qualify.

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Isn't it a sad commentary that the highest ranking officer in the Air Force says, "Guys, don't waste your time with a Master's," and we say collectively, "Nice try, but no thanks. We don't trust you. We're not going to change a thing." I fear it's a bridge too far to fix the underlying issues.

It's definitely a cultural change that won't happen overnight - certainly not when people aren't willing to change. I stopped working on my masters a year ago after finishing a few classes. I couldn't continue to waste time on something that has zero value other than filling a square for a bunch careerist on a promotion board to look at. I accepted the fact that it may hurt my "career" in terms of promotions and schools, but I also accepted the fact I'll be able to look back on my life knowing I spent that time otherwise wasted on enjoying life itself. So, I'm definitely riding this one out based on the mindset Gen. Welsh has of not wasting your time on a masters degree if it's simply to fill some ridiculous square for a promotion board. He's still encouraging folks to pursue higher education, but the results should be reflected in your job performance since ultimately that's what the masters degree should be for. I think most people in the operational community get it (well, even that is becoming questionable), but convincing the rest of the Air Force that we actually have a mission that we need to focus on is the challenge.

Edited by aspec
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It's definitely a cultural change that won't happen overnight - certainly not when people aren't willing to change. I stopped working on my masters a year ago after finishing a few classes. I couldn't continue to waste time on something that has zero value other than filling a square for a bunch careerist on a promotion board to look at. I accepted the fact that it may hurt my "career" in terms of promotions and schools, but I also accepted the fact I'll be able to look back on my life knowing I spent that time otherwise wasted on enjoying life itself. So, I'm definitely riding this one out based on the mindset Gen. Welsh has of not wasting your time on a masters degree if it's simply to fill some ridiculous square for a promotion board. He's still encouraging folks to pursue higher education, but the results should be reflected in your job performance since ultimately that's what the masters degree should be for. I think most people in the operational community get it (well, even that is becoming questionable), but convincing the rest of the Air Force that we actually have a mission that we need to focus on is the challenge.

Perhaps a change of culture start with AFPC...go check out the Promotion and PRF thread where you can see in the O-5 promotion statistics that AFPC is still tracking AAD's. If AAD's aren't required until O-6, why track who did or didn't have one and whether or not they did or didn't make it?

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Perhaps a change of culture start with AFPC...go check out the Promotion and PRF thread where you can see in the O-5 promotion statistics that AFPC is still tracking AAD's. If AAD's aren't required until O-6, why track who did or didn't have one and whether or not they did or didn't make it?

Maybe I misread the statement from Welsh (forwarded to me via email a few days ago titled "What We Value") but I thought it said a masters degree will not be included in the promotions board until O-6?

Edited by aspec
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Maybe I misread the statement from Welsh (forwarded to me via email a few days ago titled "What We Value") but I thought it said a masters degree will not be included in the promotions board until O-6?

Our execs are still requesting master's degree progress for our CC's strats.

It's definitely a cultural change that won't happen overnight - certainly not when people aren't willing to change. I stopped working on my masters a year ago after finishing a few classes. I couldn't continue to waste time on something that has zero value other than filling a square for a bunch careerist on a promotion board to look at. I accepted the fact that it may hurt my "career" in terms of promotions and schools, but I also accepted the fact I'll be able to look back on my life knowing I spent that time otherwise wasted on enjoying life itself. So, I'm definitely riding this one out based on the mindset Gen. Welsh has of not wasting your time on a masters degree if it's simply to fill some ridiculous square for a promotion board. He's still encouraging folks to pursue higher education, but the results should be reflected in your job performance since ultimately that's what the masters degree should be for. I think most people in the operational community get it (well, even that is becoming questionable), but convincing the rest of the Air Force that we actually have a mission that we need to focus on is the challenge.

Most people in operations "get it" but the promotion board is a competition and they'll do what it takes to make sure they're picked instead of the guy that would rather spend time with family. Edited by AnotherGoodDeal
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Our execs are still requesting master's degree progress for our CC's strats.

Most people in operations "get it" but the promotion board is a competition and they'll do what it takes to make sure they're picked instead of the guy that would rather spend time with family.

That's what perpetuates the problem. Just stop!

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That's what perpetuates the problem. Just stop!

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I don't remember the email saying that AAD will be masked. If the information is available to the board they will use use for the promotion process even if leadership says "don't". Even if it is masked to the board like it was in the past, it is not masked to your senior rater. They will always use it for stratification and distribution of DPs. I would never trust anyone who says you don't need to get that shit anymore.. if you don't want to then fine.. but don't leave it unchecked becasue you think it's not needed anymore.

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As for taking a class while in the FTU, my thinking behind it is I don't have any extra responsibility outside of work at all...no kids, no family here, no pets (well, my roommate has a cat but that hardly counts lol) and my roommate hires a maid to clean. Also, I live in Clovis. There is NOTHING to do around here, except take online classes apparently. I'm not the only one taking a class online while at the FTU. So far we're all doing ok. One dude who's taking a class just completed the FTU last week actually. I still have a few months. Side note: apparently there was a guy going through the same FTU at some point last year...he was taking 2 classes and completely hosed himself. Yeah, I'm not going to take 2 at a time for a while. I want to get good at my job first!

As for nav school not being hard, I'm not gonna sit here and talk shit like that other guy. For me, some of it was hard and some of it was easy. It depends on what it was. He mentioned gunships & pilots driving the bus. I'm in the gunship FTU and yeah, I know gunship pilots do alot more than just drive the bus!

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I don't remember the email saying that AAD will be masked. If the information is available to the board they will use use for the promotion process..... Even if it is masked to the board like it was in the past, it is not masked to your senior rater. They will always use it for stratification and distribution of DPs.

I'm sitting in a joint environment right now and other services are using it as MORE of a discriminator now than they ever have, particularly in the army, with more emphasis on advancement to LtCol. Frankly that's where I see this going next: no requirement or masked for major, unmasked for LtCol. Waiting til Col is waiting too long. Guidance is going to change - again - so do what you will at your own risk.

Either way, it won't GET you promoted but it will certainly KEEP you from getting promoted. My .02 from behind the prison walls....

Chuck

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When General Welsh made "Blues Mondays" optional it seemed to happen almost instantaneously - optional master's degrees? Not so much.

The bureaucrats will not accept this new status quo lying on their back. The people who already completed their master's degree feel they "deserve" to be rewarded for drinking the Kool-Aid. All of our current Air Force managers have their master's degrees complete so why should the next generation be exempt from such a ludicrous requirement?

Personally, I'd love to get a master's degree in something relevant or useful - if only the Air Force would send me. I refuse to waste my family's time, my time, and the tax payer's money (TA) on a degree that serves no purpose other than checking a box. I know it will hurt my career and may even get me RIF'ed but so be it. I feel that sticking to my guns about what is right is more important than looking out for my own career. The ironic part of this whole mess is that if I get RIF'ed I'll likely go to school full time and complete a master's degree.

My advice - if you're not going to play their game, have a backup plan ready.

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What you wrote:

Personally, I'd love to get a master's degree in something relevant or useful - if only the Air Force would send me. I refuse to waste my family's time, my time, and the tax payer's money (TA) on a degree that serves no purpose other than checking a box. I know it will hurt my career and may even get me RIF'ed but so be it. I feel that sticking to my guns about what is right is more important than looking out for my own career. The ironic part of this whole mess is that if I get RIF'ed I'll likely go to school full time and complete a master's degree.

What I read:

Personally, I love to go to Rome or Barcelona - if only the Air Force would send me. I refuse to waste my family's time, my time and taxpayer money doing something that I full well know will further my career and support my family for no other reason than to further my career and continue supporting my family. I feel like doing less work is more important than making sure the career I have is secure, again, the one I use to support my family. The funny part is, although I could take the opportunity to work really hard and do something worthwhile, I'm just going to pass on it now and waste my kid's education benefits that I chose not to give them (they'd have just wasted the opportunity anyways.)

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What you said:

What you wrote:

What I read:

Personally, I love to go to Rome or Barcelona - if only the Air Force would send me. I refuse to waste my family's time, my time and taxpayer money doing something that I full well know will further my career and support my family for no other reason than to further my career and continue supporting my family. I feel like doing less work is more important than making sure the career I have is secure, again, the one I use to support my family. The funny part is, although I could take the opportunity to work really hard and do something worthwhile, I'm just going to pass on it now and waste my kid's education benefits that I chose not to give them (they'd have just wasted the opportunity anyways.)

What I read:

I'm butthurt that i got my AAD before this policy came out and I subscribe to the blanket policy that you should get an AAD regardless of its usefulness or cost to the taxpayers and your family.

Wow.

Believe it or not, and as vexing as you may consider it, there are officers who have been successful and promoted without an AAD. And transferred their gi bill to their kids. And lived happily ever after.

Edited by sqwatch
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You see, the thing is that if you want to get a degree that is helpful, just go ahead and do that. I feel like I did. That belief squelches the "butt hurt" pretty decently. If you are even reasonably good at what you do, have half a brain when you talk, and don't burn your bridges, you don't need an AAD to get promoted. I don't find it vexing at all. Quite the contrary, I think you can throw a DUI in there for good measure and still get her done (although I'd up the previously stated quals a bit).

The real "butt hurt" going on here is from the people being told they don't have to do it, but realize they actually still do. They want it to be true so bad that some will make bad decisions just out of spite. That is the real "wow".

For all of the talk about how easy and worthless a TUI/Trident degree is, some people sure make it sound hard to get one. ...and as vexing as you might find it, if you put in the additional effort to actually study (like you say you would if you got a "real degree") you'd learn plenty that would make you a better person and officer.

If "you" don't want to get an AAD, just don't. There's no "butt hurt" on my part. I have better things to worry about.

Bendy

Edited by Bender
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