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FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)


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A few weeks ago I made a statement to a room full of senior AF leaders that we were making a big mistake paying contractors and civilians to fix and fly aircraft in combat while we keep active duty su

I'll bite, although I feel as though my response would fall on deaf ears. I have thought about this question for many years (I'm not just about to pin on Capt) and have come to quite a few answers to

You know, I think there is a much more sinister consequence to this entire debacle. It's the amazing lack of credibility that has been demonstrated by senior leaders in the Air Force. With so much fli

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Talked to a friend at SOS. Bare in mind this is from a guy who didn't apply for VSP, so probably slept for half the speech, but it sounds like Gen Cox gave more generic BS with a few gold nuggets. Discussed numbers of applicants, eligibles and possibly numbers to get approved. Sounded like approx 2000 officers applied with 1400 eligible and they will approve approx 600. He also talked about UPT ADSCs. Said they originally had authority to waive up to 1 yr but had received delegated authority to waive up to 6. He was kind of unclear on these details but he was sure about the 6 yr number.

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I haven't seen much on Palace chase on here but does anyone know why 11M functionals have been directed to non-concur on applications in over manned carrer fields? I have an ADSC of 19 months. I have been hired by a unit and My airframe is overmanned and I was told it was going to be denied becase of my ADSC. Does anybody have any thoughts or experience on what is going on? Other that an artibtrary rule that they won't approve them outside of a year. Xanax is sounding pretty good right now

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Talked to a friend at SOS. Bare in mind this is from a guy who didn't apply for VSP, so probably slept for half the speech, but it sounds like Gen Cox gave more generic BS with a few gold nuggets. Discussed numbers of applicants, eligibles and possibly numbers to get approved. Sounded like approx 2000 officers applied with 1400 eligible and they will approve approx 600. He also talked about UPT ADSCs. Said they originally had authority to waive up to 1 yr but had received delegated authority to waive up to 6. He was kind of unclear on these details but he was sure about the 6 yr number.

600 VSPs will be approved? The last numbers I saw estimated about 1900 Majors alone gone by the end of FY15 (might have been an AF Times article though). Sounds like the promise from James and Welsh to let volunteers go won't be honored...

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600 VSPs will be approved? The last numbers I saw estimated about 1900 Majors alone gone by the end of FY15 (might have been an AF Times article though). Sounds like the promise from James and Welsh to let volunteers go won't be honored...

Might have been 600 so far they just haven't been notified yet. I give my above info about 60% accuracy. I wasn't there and the people I talked to weren't completely current on the developments to date so their interpretation may have been way off base. I wanted to give partial info. As they say sometimes half an answer is better than no answer. Big news is it sounds like some kind of new info will be dropped on myPers tomorrow at which point everything I've just said will be proven wrong. Edited by lossofclocklossofdata
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Would be funny if their interpretation of eligible for voluntary separation as everyone was eligible, but we were only going to approve 1. Now that's an April fool's joke.

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

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So, about a month past the original date that the "first batch" of VSP apps was supposed to be announced for approval, I was tasked today for a 183 in Sep (actually nice of them to give me such advance notice). Not upset about the deployment if I'm still in, but I'm wondering now if this will also DQ my VSP application... double whammy.

Been lurking here as the most useful venue for info since we all started pissing in the wind back in Feb, hoping someone may have looked into this already before I start rummaging through the PSDMs.

Any help is appreciated, thanks all for providing the closest thing to current info for the desperate masses.

Edited by jates
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Talked to a friend at SOS. Bare in mind this is from a guy who didn't apply for VSP, so probably slept for half the speech, but it sounds like Gen Cox gave more generic BS with a few gold nuggets. Discussed numbers of applicants, eligibles and possibly numbers to get approved. Sounded like approx 2000 officers applied with 1400 eligible and they will approve approx 600. He also talked about UPT ADSCs. Said they originally had authority to waive up to 1 yr but had received delegated authority to waive up to 6. He was kind of unclear on these details but he was sure about the 6 yr number.

Wonder what the TERA numbers were if that was for VSP.

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So is an adsc 6 year waiver for those that have served 6 years with only 4 left? Or those that served 4 and have 6 left?

I'm thinking the second because that'll still keep the 08 group in the running for VSP unless they graduated upt late.

Edited by C17Jockey
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Does anyone know if AFPC is adjusting the separation date window for VSP? Originally September was the latest one could separate, but I'm wondering if there is any official or unofficial guidance indicating otherwise.

Here's what you can safely assume: no one anywhere in the entire Air Force actually knows what's going on with the force managment programs.

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So is an adsc 6 year waiver for those that have served 6 years with only 4 left? Or those that served 4 and have 6 left?

I'm thinking the second because that'll still keep the 08 group in the running for VSP unless they graduated upt late.

My exact thoughts. Somewhere at AFPC....."What did we say? 05-08 yr groups? (Counts on fingers) So I'm getting 6 yr ADSCs left, is that what you got?"

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Received this email from AFPC today:

Thank you all for participating in the most comprehensive climate survey to date. We had record high participation and will use this information to better serve the force. Aim high!

Posted from the NEW Baseops.net App!

April Fool's

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Damn glad to hear it, brother. I got responses too, but they were non-answer answers. Very frustrating.

Gents and ladies,

This moment of introspection has been interesting, but it's time to get crackin' again. 1 April was rumored to be a deadline....so everybody pimp your CCs and buddies at staff and see what the hell we can dig up before it trickles down the FSS chain.

Can you keep us posted on that? Could be interesting.

Input: a few telephone calls / emails with staffer to explain the situation.
Outcome: non-answer answer in the form of a memo signed by O-6 at LL.
Was it worth it? Absolutely.
While the situation was not fixed nor adequately explained, it did force someone at AFPC to try to justify their buffoonery to LL and exposed the said buffoonery to staffers. If Air Force leadership can't put enough pressure on AFPC to fix their stuff, maybe a little Congressional interest will help. I recommend making the phone call. Enough inquiries could very well make a difference. If not, at least you'll get a cool souvenir.
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Here is what I know with about 75% reliability (take it for what it is worth), guy who knows a guy who knows a guy told me ... you get the idea.

TERA packages for pilots are being processed and being sent around AFPC for MORE coordination because FAMs gave out assignments after TERA applications were put in...so the long and the short is that my TERA approval is pending whether or not my FAM chooses to release me from the assignment he/she gave to me AFTER I applied for the program. My boss is just a touch tweaked about this news, especially given how painful this process has been thus far and is trying to get a hold of my FAM on the phone to find out what the ground-truth is for my situation. I'll get back to this forum as soon as I hear words...guessing 7 days or so given the speed of this process so far.

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I haven't seen much on Palace chase on here but does anyone know why 11M functionals have been directed to non-concur on applications in over manned carrer fields? I have an ADSC of 19 months. I have been hired by a unit and My airframe is overmanned and I was told it was going to be denied becase of my ADSC. Does anybody have any thoughts or experience on what is going on? Other that an artibtrary rule that they won't approve them outside of a year. Xanax is sounding pretty good right now

Functionals seem to always recommend disapproval....your functionals recommendation means absolutely nothing. ALl that matters is what the PC office decides, and lately it seems its been blanket approval for anyone with less than 3 years of UPT ADSC...I've also seen a 3 yr 3 month approved, and 4 yr 5 month approved in the past 3-4 months...haven't really heard of anyone denied PC lately.

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- 6 year ADSC means they are waiving 6 years, so you only have to have served 4 years of UPT commitment to be eligible
- they are extending/doing another round of programs in FY14/15 which will include ADSC waivers...this program will push VSP separation window to 30 Apr 15 and TERA window to 1 May 15. Why? because they have done very little with the first two programs Why? because they have no accountability and can do what they want for the sake of doing "what's best for the air force" and you can't do anything about it.

- I think we will hear something this week or next on some officers getting approved/disapproved for VSP/TERA, but no where near the amount needed to reduce the force by 18K peeps over the next 3 years; hence, more force management programs.
- You have to remember too that 10k applications of 327K total people in the Air Force is 3.1% of the total force. Relatively speaking, not a whole lot of people care about approving these voluntary applications
- The question that we will never get answered is, "why are we turning down thousands of voluntary applications if we have to do involuntary programs in 15?" This ineligible bullshit is nonsensical.
- I bet they had more applications in some overages than needed and less applications than needed for other AFSCs/yeargroups. Which ones, we may never know since they don't even know what matrix to use.

- I don't think they know what to do with pilots due to A-10, KC-10, U-2 and the reshuffling of planes to the reserves, but they will have to let a lot of pilots go, they just don't know exactly where yet. Why? No one can make decisions in the AF without an eSSS signed by 74 other people.
- But there is no doubt, VSP/TERAs will get denied and then people will get RIF'd. Not for the sake of money, but for the sake of incompetence and too many bureaucrats involved in the process.
- They are slow rollin' this beast until FY15 NDAA comes out...they just wanted to, "give you and your families enough time to think about it" but that really means give them more time to figure out how to execute these programs given the ever changing budget

- I think we will get an answer for the missed deadline and delays in processing of something like, "the continued balance of readiness, force structure, and modernization has caused us to make strategic decisions to reevaluate the appropriate force management timeline" blah, blah, blah
- I bet we hear more of nothing on MyPers in the form of an article that continues to tell us nothing of any substance and further distances us because we cannot believe what he says because he continues to over promise and under deliver. Any date they post, any criteria they list, any matrix will be worthless information.
- We will not get solid answers to tough questions...ever.

- because I don't like to b**** without offering a solution... All voluntary applications approved. I have 8k more people to get rid of through involuntary measures and potentially less than 10k more to cross train if necessary (Aug 2013 done). Sept 13 - Mar 2014, RIF boards complete, verify my end strength numbers with congress, 1 Apr 2014 I'm chuckin' deuces to 8k peeps. I got my cash for FY16 and I'm throwin' benjies at F-35 delays, RQ-4s I don't want, pilots are flying again and not working at habitat for humanity, and the reserves are flying any plane built before 1990. 2 Apr 2014, I'm lookin' for my follow-on consulting assignment at SAIC thanks to Deb.

Edited by Fiver
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- because I don't like to bitch without offering a solution... All voluntary applications approved. I have 16K more people to get rid of through involuntary measures and potentially less than 2K more to cross train if necessary (Aug 2013 done). Sept 13 - Mar 2014, RIF boards complete, verify my end strength numbers with congress, 1 Apr 2014 I'm chuckin' deuces to 16K peeps. I got my cash for FY16 and I'm throwin' benjies at F-35 delays, RQ-4s I don't want, pilots are flying again and not working at habitat for humanity, and the reserves are flying any plane built before 1990. 2 Apr 2014, I'm lookin' for my follow-on consulting assignment at SAIC thanks to Deb.

Where you at Welsch?

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One of the better summaries to date.

AF "leadership" has really f-ed themselves on this one. The younger generations are paying very close attention to this debacle, and are planning accordingly. I don't know many folks in the 05-12 year groups who plan on staying past their commitment. That's not a good thing.

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