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FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)


AOF_ATC

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Did anyone that got a "take back" email on Friday already have retirement orders? I got my orders Friday. Fuck, now I have to go in and check. On a Saturday. Again. If CSAF isn't flying nuts from his flagpole after this, I don't care how good of a guy he is, his term is a failure. Three drunk monkeys could run a drawdown better and still have time to fling poo.

H

To be clear I haven't gotten the "take back" email and mypers shows me as approved. However, my retirement date is gone from my CDB and my record had gone from a code 20 (projected for retirement) to code 10 (no projected action).

Almost a direct quote from TFSC was that "you are not retiring 1 August and you will probably get a mypers notification that you are disapproved"

To specifically answer your question I did not have orders. Which is interesting because when I talked to FSS on Friday they said the person to cut the orders was out but they would be but as soon as they were back.

Edited by Catbox
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Alright, I just checked and it seems my retirement is still valid (at least for now). No emails and I still have a DOS of 31 Jul 14 on my CDB. I would have been surprised if they rescended the orders.

But my observation still stands..its time to show leadership from the very top. To anyone who got a take back, I feel for you and on behalf of the Air Force, I'm sorry. It doesn't mean squat coming from me, but you deserve to hear that from someone and I'm not holding my breath that those who owe you an apology will be forthcoming. I weep for what this institution is becoming.

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Apology? That's nice and all, but they deserve to retire exactly as previously approved. And I'd imagine they're going to get really vocal in agreement of that point of view if somebody in charge doesn't overrule this ridiculous (and possibly unlawful) "take back".

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It's sad to see so many people get their souls ripped out just when they thought they were free. This is why I'm planning on serving out my entire ADSC and fully expecting a 365 somewhere near the end. Call it a defense mechanism, but I try not to set my expectations much higher than rock bottom for these things.

As long as dudes keep staying in and taking the bonus, nothing will ever change. That spreadsheet is going to stay green no matter how many guys you know start to drop papers. Some general can just revise the manning documents/crew ratios, and make it green again. I don't mean to sound so negative, but we have zero leverage here. Honestly, it just makes more sense to RIF the guys who do have leverage (nonrated without ADSC, or rated bonus non-takers) to get the numbers down, protect who they need to fill senior billets (your #1 stratted/SOS DG/golden boy rising star types) and just fuck everyone else as hard as they can who is locked into an ADSC, especially prior enlisted pilots or late to rate.

Man, this all sounds really negative, but it is the most logical course of action for AFPC. No matter how many times they throw the force under the bus, there will always be guys around willing to accept it. It's called moral hazard.

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I wonder if there might not be real legal repercussions to "taking back" retirement? At what point is that just involuntarily activating someone? The day you outprocess your final base?

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Seems like that sternly worded email I said Gen Cox was going to send got routed to the poor souls who were "approved in error". I was removed from eligibility in the latest update, and wasn't applying anyway. But like you guys say, I'm using their actions as a gage for what we're going to face ahead.

My Lt's and Amn/NCOs are coming to me with questions about staying in and the future and when this shit happens I can't think of even a positive way to spin it. This won't even make a good story years from now. I've given out LoR's for much less than what's going on at AFPC. My guys see nothing but screwup after screwup with no repercussions for the people managing our lives. Guess I should track if I have more attention to detail problems soon.

The despair that hit me when I saw that "Haha, just kidding" email was pretty tough. I couldn't imagine actually getting the rug pulled that hard.

I hope this great leader shows up shortly.

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No matter how many times they throw the force under the bus, there will always be guys around willing to accept it. It's called moral hazard.

You have a few decent thoughts, but here's where I see the biggest 'potential' flaw with Big Blue: Convincing the young guys for the future.

Back when I was competing for a UPT slot in ROTC (to include the entire time in the program), there was very little negative talk about joining the AF, willing to accept the new 10-yr ADSC, all the BS that active duty would entail, etc. Is it the same way at the Academy/ROTC Dets today? My ROTC time was before Sept 11th, so we weren't hearing all the crazy stories about all the deployments (though we knew the fighter guys were doing ONW and SW, and that the heavy guys were always doing their standard trips, but it didn't sound too bad). Also, the only brief Internet chat about AD seemed to be on studentpilot.net (if I got that correctly) and guys like Hacker and Toro telling us how AD flying was the best thing since sex (I don't blame them...times were much better then).

Flash Forward to today: I'm assuming there are quite a bit of young guys at the Acedemy and in ROTC that constantly lurk on here and I'm sure they tell their friends the good/bad/ugly stories we discuss...have these stories influenced the young 20-year olds to not pursue taking on the longer ADSC? As naive/immature (and motivated, of course) that the pre-commisionees are, hearing all the crap we put out, not to mention the open-source info about RIFs, constant focus on SAPR stuff, you name it...this stuff eventually has to influence the younger guys. Flying is great, but anything great has a price, and if it gets too high people will eventually say it's not worth it. Or will there always be enough halfway decent young guys wanting to fly so badly that they don't care about the horror stories? Either way, you're right--it won't change much in the short term I'm sure.

Maybe the AF will soon need to resort to recruiting videos like this:

http://vimeo.com/7015914

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Flash Forward to today: I'm assuming there are quite a bit of young guys at the Acedemy and in ROTC that constantly lurk on here and I'm sure they tell their friends the good/bad/ugly stories we discuss...have these stories influenced the young 20-year olds to not pursue taking on the longer ADSC? As naive/immature (and motivated, of course) that the pre-commisionees are, hearing all the crap we put out, not to mention the open-source info about RIFs, constant focus on SAPR stuff, you name it...this stuff eventually has to influence the younger guys. Flying is great, but anything great has a price, and if it gets too high people will eventually say it's not worth it. Or will there always be enough halfway decent young guys wanting to fly so badly that they don't care about the horror stories? Either way, you're right--it won't change much in the short term I'm sure.

Their deals have gotten progressively shittier, but the AF still keeps getting enough officers from these sources. So much so that OTS is barely producing any officers. So as long as the Air Force is getting enough meat for the grinder I don't think the AFPC folks will ever really give a shit, because they operate under the illusion of, "Hey we have enough bodies. So what if we piss a few people off...we need to get rid of some anyway."

Getting back to the shitty deals...one example is the rated slot application process. Back in the day (early 2000's and before) you could apply for just one rated career field Pilot, Nav, or ABM. Then they changed it for ROTC cadets that if you apply for one you apply for all of them with RPA operator thrown into the mix as well now, and the Air Force is supposedly rolling this out at the Academy as well. So until high school kids get wise to the AF shenanigans and stop applying for the academy and ROTC scholarships the AF will always have enough bodies on the officer side so they will continue to treat us like crap and mismanage the force. The reason being simply because the Air Force is naturally more inclined to replace people than to retain them.

That said the Academy is in a downward spiral according to my friend that is an instructor there that just got approved for VSP. Apparently AETC thought it would be a great idea to shit can the program that gets almost all the military instructors there the degrees required to go teach in their respective departments. Not to mention they are all but shutting down the channels for the top instructors to go on to get their doctorates so they can come back and be department heads...in short in a few years the only people that will be qualified to teach at the USAFA will be civilians.

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And don't forget all of the hilarious (and truthful) Xtra Normal vids on the Youtubes that simultaneously mock and tell the real story about life in the AF...kids, start taking notes if you haven't already!! Your recruiter will never ever give you our side of the story...

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Ahh, the AF Times-charging airmen to read what you can find for free elsewhere. I'm curious about that RIF-did enough Os ask for VSP that AFPC said F it, we don't need a RIF? That looks like what happened on the E side-many career fields had so many takers for the early outs that the retention boards got canx.

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Flash Forward to today: I'm assuming there are quite a bit of young guys at the Acedemy and in ROTC that constantly lurk on here and I'm sure they tell their friends the good/bad/ugly stories we discuss...have these stories influenced the young 20-year olds to not pursue taking on the longer ADSC? As naive/immature (and motivated, of course) that the pre-commisionees are, hearing all the crap we put out, not to mention the open-source info about RIFs, constant focus on SAPR stuff, you name it...this stuff eventually has to influence the younger guys.

This is already happening. I've met more than a handful of guys in RPA's who opted for this route to take advantage of the shorter ADSC (6 years vs 10). Still time to upgrade to instructor, get a couple thousand hours and be in a good position to take advantage of free agency if RPA opportunities are available on the outside. Or they can separate and use the GI Bill to get a real Master's Degree before they're 30 years old. Well planned FENCE Out, I think.

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I'm going to be a little devil's advocate here for a bit, if you dont like it, dont read it.

Did you work over the weekend? I am sure 90% of you didnt so I dont understand everyone's complaint about them taking the weekend off, there is ALWAYS going to be work to do, I always tell the execs that, OPRs will be there tomorrow, as well as 8,000 FM applications. Coming in over the weekend isnt going to make the dent, AFPC coming up with solidified guidance on how to implement them is

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Just because you didnt do your research or werent able to predict the future is no reason to jump on the AF hating bandwagon. Thats what got us into this personnel issue in the first place. I had a student who dropped RPAs at UPT and stormed out of the room throwing his beer and sat in the parking lot crying about it and I am sure there were more stories like that. Where does it say that if you get a pilot slot the AF is required to give you a cockpit? If you want guaranteed stick time go get hired by a guard unit that will have a non-RPA mission for the next 5 yrs (hint, its not going to be in a fighter). I wasnt smart enough to do that and am kicking myself in the ass when I feel I cant drink the cool aid anymore, but its not the AFs fault, I made that (uninformed) decision.

You don't think a free college education and pilot training in the world's greatest AF is worth working for big blue for 10 yrs? Do you know how long pilots at regional airlines sit in the right seat and put the gear up and down, and get paid less than your boom operator that makes you coffee and brings you your box lunch if you are nice enough to them? With AF wings and enough time you can walk right out of the Sq the day you separate and into an airline (granted they have to be hiring) making decent coin.

I am tired of everyone saying I cant take it anymore, I want out, its not what I thought it was going to be, they lied to me, its not fair. GROW UP. Was the first day of summer camp what you thought it was going to be when you were crying for your mommy? Was college what you thought it was going to be when you failed you first test? Was ROTC/UPT/SOS/your next Sq Commander what you thought it was going to be? NO!!!!!! When you signed that ADSC you knew what the ramifications were, and if you didnt then I am sorry that you are stuck in a job you hate that hasnt let you travel to at least some other part of the country or world and given you skills that you can't pay to be taught to you.

Edited by chizz
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