FY 14 Force Management Program (RIF, VSP, TERA)

[Warrior]

Does it really take experience to be able to fly a 2.5 degree glide slope vice a 3 degree? Come on man!

[Prozac]

Not necessarily but it does take some to realize before you start the approach that it may look messed up at 300ft due to a shallow glide path angle. Not sure what the papi/vasi is set to there but I wouldn't be surprised if the PF saw a bunch of red and pitched up to correct. It's easy to miss such things as a 2.5 degree gpa in the brief when your tired. A more experienced crew would have been less likely to make the mistake. The AF is reaping what it has sown.

[HeyEng]

I remember seeing the computer recreation of this accident with the CVR recordings of their voices. You could tell how tired they were. Even after they "crashed" the PF voice barely raised an octave he was so exhausted.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[mcbush]

I'd like to hear from guys still in the C-17 squadrons about what this is doing for ops tempo. Where does our ability to surge during the next Haiti, Hurricane Sandy, or Japanese tsunami come from when we lowered our available crews by one third?

For what it's worth, we were briefed that they were reducing the crew ratio from 3.0 to 2.5 rather than 2.0. To answer your question though, at least from my persepective, adding all these Ebola missions on top of everything we're normally covering has us stretched pretty thin. This is even more true considering the restrictions placed on guys once they return from an Ebola-infected country.

Regarding the discussion on WIC grads, the only two patch wearers in my squadron are the CC and the DO. Absolutely great guys, both of them, but it's not like they're really able to spend their time sharing all that knowledge and experience with the younger generation.

I wouldn't be surprised if the PF saw a bunch of red and pitched up to correct.

This makes less sense in a C-17 flying an approach in a standard, backside configuration than in other aircraft, because the proper response if you're below glideslope is to add power rather than to raise the nose. Can't say that's not what happened, though.

[Herk Driver]

Just got an email about this.

PSDM 13-65 and 13-64 were both amended on 20 Nov 14. It says the window closed on 30 Nov but apparently you have until midnight 1 Dec to apply if interested. Looks like LADSC waiver, TIG waiver and PC are affected.

[QueepFactory]

I remember in the past some people have touched on VSP payments and tax filing. Does anyone have any answers for those with a DOS on Dec 31 who will be getting there $$$$ in January 2015?

I am curious if I'll get an amended W2 to claim those funds for 2014, or when I file 2015 seeing as how I'm getting that money in CY 15.

[FLY6584]

Finance keeps telling me that it will appear on our 2014 W-2's, but it sounds like pure speculation and no one really knows. I spent the majority of 2014 deployed which is driving a low taxable income in 2014 so I'm really hoping it shows up on my 2014 W-2. I have run the numbers and I should get about half of the 25% that they tax us back.

[Swizzle]

The money is taxed the year it is paid to you....unless you're a corporation or conduct the Irish two-step. That's why timing a PCS or DITY move voucher submission is crucial and in your control. Damn I should write a book on military fianace...at least the AF paid for my Master in Finance, maybe I can stretch it some more.

[HeloDude]

Question for the masses. I’ve got buddy who found out he was RIFed in November, space guy working in an ASOS. He’s plan going forward is to join active duty Army as a WO and attend helo training. However, he is being told if he goes forward with that, he will not receive the one year severance pay because he will be unable to meet the inactive reserve requirement. Anyone else come across this? Doesn’t seem right.

Why would he receive military separation pay if he's not separating from the military?

And tell him good luck at Rucker! He'll love it! As for being in the Army, YMMV.

[BonedRiver]

No 2015 TERA or VSP: "the Air Force said it would only offer a limited range of non-monetary voluntary programs in fiscal 2015".

Anyone else think AFPC just needs a break to figure out what the hell they've done over the past 12-months?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/careers/air-force/2014/12/17/no-tera-vsp-programs-2015/20548885/

[General Chang]

No 2015 TERA or VSP: "the Air Force said it would only offer a limited range of non-monetary voluntary programs in fiscal 2015".

Anyone else think AFPC just needs a break to figure out what the hell they've done over the past 12-months?

http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/careers/air-force/2014/12/17/no-tera-vsp-programs-2015/20548885/

The 2014 program worked as it was supposed to, hence no need for the programs in 2015. Personnelist brothers on this forum: I know you don't get a lot of love here, but thank you for what you do every day- this announcement validates your efforts. And for everyone else...Gen Welsh's vision of quick cuts has paid off, as the spectre of cuts no longer remains as the elephant in the room. Enjoy your careers--it's a good time to serve our country.

[HeloDude]

The 2014 program worked as it was supposed to, hence no need for the programs in 2015. Personnelist brothers on this forum: I know you don't get a lot of love here, but thank you for what you do every day- this announcement validates your efforts. And for everyone else...Gen Welsh's vision of quick cuts has paid off, as the spectre of cuts no longer remains as the elephant in the room. Enjoy your careers--it's a good time to serve our country.

Since you're the smartest guy in the room, care to make a prediction on continuation vs non-continuation rates/outlook on next year's O-5 board results?

[Learjetter]

I'll prognosticate for the rest of FY15:

1) No Involuntary Force Reductions

2) Extremely limited voluntary reduction offers

3) twice non-promoted officers in critical skills within 4 years of retirement will be offered continuation, and TERA will be offered to eligible non-continued officers

The FY14 cuts were deep, into muscle, and we're feeling it.

[HeloDude]

But he’s leaving the Air Force. I’m a VSP guy and landed in the reserves; another buddy I know who took VSP is headed to fly C-130s in the Navy Reserve. We both got our pay no problem. Not sure why a guy joining the Army after he’s been RIF would be denied separation pay when other folks can join the AF reserves or Navy.

You said he was going AD in the Army...so not really separating from the military. Separation pay has to do with the entire military, not just the AF. Besides, you will all have pay back your separation pay if and when you retire from the guard, reserves.

[Fuzz]

Also if you are in the reserves you can always be called back to AD. How exactly is the Air Force going to tell the AD Army to cut you loose so you can come back to AD Air Force?

The 2014 program worked as it was supposed to, hence no need for the programs in 2015.

Yeah if demoralizing the majority of the crew force and causing distrust in higher leadership was what you were aiming to accomplish.

[jrizzell]

Don't know if I would qualify FY14 program as an organized implementation plan. Feels like an entire O-line pushed from behind goal line TD. Sure we meet the goal, but the process was unnecessarily chaotic. I think it highlights just how a reactionary organization AF is. Two years from now, we'll be suddenly "undermanned"....

[HeloDude]

I guess my line of thinking is this, if he got out of the AF, who cares what he does outside of earning a military retirement. If he lied and said he's going civilian and joined the Army a month later, would the AF come knocking and say pay it back right now? Or wait till retirement like everyone else that got VSP/RIF? Thanks for the feedback.

http://comptroller.defense.gov/Portals/45/documents/fmr/archive/07aarch/07a_35_Jun10.pdf

Reference page 44 in the PDF, rule 3. It says if he 'immediately enters on active duty with the other Military Service, then separation pay is not payable. Surfing around the PDF looks like 'immediate' refers to less than a break of 30 days. It mentions something for AD officers in reserve commission status, but we all have regular commissions (at least after being in for 6 years). So it could just be what he told them and they have him info on what he said he plans to do?

Hope this helps!

Edited December 18, 2014 by HeloDude

[Fud]

The 2014 program worked as it was supposed to, hence no need for the programs in 2015. Personnelist brothers on this forum: I know you don't get a lot of love here, but thank you for what you do every day- this announcement validates your efforts. And for everyone else...Gen Welsh's vision of quick cuts has paid off, as the spectre of cuts no longer remains as the elephant in the room. Enjoy your careers--it's a good time to serve our country.

I've never like the nature of your comments, and how you word your posts. I don't know if you are trying to come off as condescending most of the time, but I'm trying not to read too much into it. The program didn't work as it was supposed to because complaints about lack of TAMP were the only thing that got us that benefit in the end. What about those who were denied TERA then given it back again only after the CSAF stepped in. Unbelievable buffoonery at multiple levels in this process occurred, and then the boss has to get involved. I have always respected Gen. Welsh. His integrity and ability to actually make a decision is fantastic and it shows he truly cares about his people. Sec. James is the same way and I applaud her efforts in how she is actively trying to improve the force. I don't know you personally, but it seems that you take Big Blue's side of the issue every single time. I know plenty of O's and E's like you and that was a large factor in why I chose to get out with this benefit. I hope you get more objective.

Break Break

wholeheartedly agree about personnel at MPF/CSS/Finance who actually know how to do their jobs. My last base was fortunate enough to have great supervisors in those roles, and they did a great job.

Finance keeps telling me that it will appear on our 2014 W-2's, but it sounds like pure speculation and no one really knows. I spent the majority of 2014 deployed which is driving a low taxable income in 2014 so I'm really hoping it shows up on my 2014 W-2. I have run the numbers and I should get about half of the 25% that they tax us back.

If you separated at the end of Sep 2014, it will be on 2014's W-2. If you are separating at the end of Dec 2014, you should not get separation pay until 1 Jan 2015 at the earliest, which would put that amount as compensation on your 2015 W-2. This will be more beneficial for those who are still searching for employment, and allow them to have a few months with extra cash as security.

The money is taxed the year it is paid to you....unless you're a corporation or conduct the Irish two-step. That's why timing a PCS or DITY move voucher submission is crucial and in your control. Damn I should write a book on military fianace...at least the AF paid for my Master in Finance, maybe I can stretch it some more.

2, and see above as well.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Fud

[olevelo]

The 2014 program worked as it was supposed to, hence no need for the programs in 2015.

I can't believe you just said that. After reducing the size of the force by over 16,000 through voluntary and some tough involuntary measures, it was still worth it to further eliminate about THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY officers?! (IE, a drop in the bucket) Most of whom, from personal evidence, seem to be in the 12 year range? A large percentage of which are acquisitions experts, in the phase of their career where they are the ones with some of the greatest influence on the large acquisitions programs for which we are saving money for, except now there's no one to run them. And it was fiscally responsible to eliminate two TPS graduates (disclaimer: yes I am one, so somewhat biased in my viewpoint) who you just spent over ONE MILLION DOLLARS on just 4 years ago? (With no negative indicators mind you) If this is what they set out to do, well done. I would love to hear if the SECAF is even aware of the types of folks she has lost.

[matmacwc]

I got paid about a week after my DOS, and they didn't take the taxes out. Save about 30% of it.

[QueepFactory]

The money is taxed the year it is paid to you....unless you're a corporation or conduct the Irish two-step. That's why timing a PCS or DITY move voucher submission is crucial and in your control. Damn I should write a book on military fianace...at least the AF paid for my Master in Finance, maybe I can stretch it some more.

Not sure this is correct. I know the USAF finance isn't the pinnacle of accuracy, but the way it was explained to me by them and a CPA is it all depends on how they account the funds. Those funds belong to 2014, but because of the delay in their paper pushing it won't arrive Dec 31. As goes the same for our final paycheck and leave sell back. Those funds belong in 2014 and will be on the 2014 W-2 even though they are arriving in 2015. I sure hope this is the case, but we will see when the paperwork arrives.

[DirkDiggler]

Chang is trolling people here, nothing more, nothing less. General Cox came and spoke at our wayward school by the river; he wasn't nearly as chipper about how the FY14 force management programs unfolded. The personnelist in my flight openly espouses that the planning, messaging, and execution of these programs was a complete goat rope. On the positive side, it seems like the involuntary drama is done and a decent amount of people that wanted to try a different path outside the AF are getting the chance.

[Butters]

I got paid about a week after my DOS, and they didn't take the taxes out. Save about 30% of it.

No, IRS has cut manning and says they will delay processing refunds. If that is the case you have a good chance of them not noticing taxes were not taken out and you should be good to go. Just don't say anything about it on the Internet or they may figure of out later.

[pawnman]

Chang is trolling people here, nothing more, nothing less. General Cox came and spoke at our wayward school by the river; he wasn't nearly as chipper about how the FY14 force management programs unfolded. The personnelist in my flight openly espouses that the planning, messaging, and execution of these programs was a complete goat rope. On the positive side, it seems like the involuntary drama is done and a decent amount of people that wanted to try a different path outside the AF are getting the chance.

I know SECAF says we're done...but we also have to cut another 4,000 people somewhere. Any insight on how we're going to cut 4,000 people with no VSP, TERA, or involuntary programs?

Don't know if I would qualify FY14 program as an organized implementation plan. Feels like an entire O-line pushed from behind goal line TD. Sure we meet the goal, but the process was unnecessarily chaotic. I think it highlights just how a reactionary organization AF is. Two years from now, we'll be suddenly "undermanned"....

Well, my community brought back a WSO after almost a decade due to WSO manning. He's an O-5 going back through initial qual. At the same time, we RIF'd three O-4 WSOs, including an evaluator with six deployments, qualified in the new glass cockpit aircraft. So...worked great, I guess.

[Champ Kind]

Any insight on how we're going to cut 4,000 people with no VSP, TERA, or involuntary programs?

Palace Chase?