backseatdriver Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This discussion didn't even start until JQP posted on his FB page that he wasn't getting referrals from BODN.... Just because JQP says something is fucked doesn't necessarily mean it's fucked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHoler Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 This discussion didn't even start until JQP posted on his FB page that he wasn't getting referrals from BODN.... Just because JQP says something is fucked doesn't necessarily mean it's fucked. QFT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I have one recommenedation: close BODN to the public. There's no reason BODN needs the anonymous and potentially dangerous viewing of AF Times, anthropologists, scoobs, BQZip's mom, Chinese and Russian spies, or anyone else not in the community. Not going to happen. Others have adequately addressed the rest of your posts, but I will add one thing: anybody who wants to help improve the site is free to offer their suggestions (and sorry, but purging all the moderators who have busted their asses for over a decade here is not one of them). We occasionally bring on new moderators, nearly all of whom are a result of people stepping up and volunteering. If you don't like content, there's a report button, and we all get the reports. If you don't like individuals, you can report them as well. Lastly, I have no idea why JQP was removed/banned. I follow and enjoy his posts, so not only do I not know what happened, but I would welcome him to the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClearedHot Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 NOTHING is perfect...well Pappy Van Winkle is pretty close, but sometimes you just hope there is more good than bad. This forum has helped many people for many years (myself included), and I hope it continues to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think the good of this site has and will continue to significantly outweigh the negatives. It would be hard to quantify the number of times Baseops has helped me out in the last 10+ years, but I can guarantee it's more than any official Air Force program/website/resource ever has. As far as my comments in the proposal thread, I don't think sexual harassment is funny. Ever. Whether it's online, at work, just between bros...not even just the tip. If you aren't cool with that, that's fine. I've seen good female Airmen leave because they couldn't put up with the constant remarks about their bodies, from their bosses and co-workers, at work. It's unacceptable. If some female high-school or college student were reading Baseops, would these threads give her a sense of the camaraderie and teamwork the Air Force is all about? Sorry for the rant, but this is something I feel strongly about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZwildcat Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I think the good of this site has and will continue to significantly outweigh the negatives. It would be hard to quantify the number of times Baseops has helped me out in the last 10+ years, but I can guarantee it's more than any official Air Force program/website/resource ever has. Exactly...lighten up Francis, the site's not going anywhere, if you think the discussion sucks, start a better one. Although I will say things haven't been the same since Rainman left. When in doubt about anything you're about to say on the internet, just remember the wisdom of Herm Edwards..."Don't press send!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Noonin Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 As far as my comments in the proposal thread, I don't think sexual harassment is funny. Ever. Whether it's online, at work, just between bros...not even just the tip. Interesting choice of words to use while making that statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OverTQ Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 As one of the few non AF types that lurk here, I appreciate being able to see what is going elsewhere. It is good to see ideas from other services and also sometimes to see it is just as bad elsewhere. I will say it is also a much better site that us Army guys have come up with. We are split out by airframes and the Apache site became mostly porn. Go figure. You have a good thing going here. Make it better but don’t delete it or make drastic changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RASH Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Best, most concise response. For all you guys encouraging Rainman: don't. While much of his advice is timeless, another big part is obsolete and no longer welcome in today's Air Force. Call it bullying, or sexism, or whatever you want, but that behavior isn't smart these days, and he sensed it soon before leaving. You know him personally? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HossHarris Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Best, most concise response. For all you guys encouraging Rainman: don't. While much of his advice is timeless, another big part is obsolete and no longer welcome in today's Air Force. Call it bullying, or sexism, or whatever you want, but that behavior isn't smart these days, and he sensed it soon before leaving. It's not obsolete. And the fact that it is being systematically stamped out is part of the problem. We didn't get to be the best there ever was without a few hurt feelings along the way. This is not a corporate environment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one1 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) I was still in high school when I first started going to baseops. It was around 2005 that I started seriously looking into the military and baseops was a great resource. Baseops is a much better recruiting tool than any Air Force advertisement featuring fighters, General Welsh, TIB, etc. I was able to talk to guys like Hiflyer and Hacker online. I started reading Hacker’s blog when he was in UPT and he was awesome at getting information to those who asked. Hiflyer has probably been a more superior resource for guys trying to commission through OTS than most Air Force recruiters. You get a little desensitized to it once you are in the Air Force surrounded by pilots, but in high school and college, having a candid conversation with a retired U-2 pilot was a big deal. These are two people out of many that frequent Baseops that are all about providing knowledge and sharing experience to people. I am not the type of person that frequents 30 different forums, trolling, and stirring the pot like PYB. I am on this forum to read the perspectives from people relating to the Air Force. At training, I told multiple guys about Baseops and what a great resource it was. Many of them joined the forum. I kept in touch with a lot of friends on Baseops after training. Threads like “Squadron daily Pic” and “WTF” are entertaining but the ability communicate with multiple officers about Air Force related topics in an anonymous setting is why this forum is a valuable resource. I was one of the people that had their account deleted and have been blocked multiple times for long periods. My account has been “accidentally” deleted twice. After the second time it was deleted, I made another account to contact an admin to see if there was some type of accident with my account and he threatened to delete the new account I made because I was trying to get around the rules by making another account. After disagreeing with an Admin in one of the political forums, I was sent this… “You just earned a five-day ban for arguing with an admin on the forum. When the ban is over, your posts will require moderator approval before showing up on the forum. Any more arguing or trolling will result in an increased or even permanent ban.” A few weeks later I was still blocked. one1 Sent 25 April 2013 - 07:44 AM M2, You banned me last week. Can you please unlock my original account. I can understand that you disagreed with what I said but I didn't think you were going to ban me for it. I thought you were disagreeing with me as a normal BO user. As you said earlier, when you are communicating as an ADMIN you normally bold everything. I don't really want to post anymore. I especially don't want to post on the political/social related threads if I am going to get banned because I don't have the same views on social issues and political issues. On the other hand, I would still like to be able to post on the Air Force related threads. I would appreciate if you would unlock my last account. Thanks M2 Administrator Sent 25 April 2013 - 07:57 AM You received a one-week ban for negative comments on Moderator actions. It was noted in your warning status. It wasn't a matter of posting opposing viewpoints, but you have gained a reputation for being an instigator and that usually results in what is considered trolling. You should have not created a second account to get around it as that is also a banning offense, but I'll let this one go and will delete this account in a day or two. Do not post using this account or it will result in a permanent ban and your IP address, email and/or user name being blocked from returning to this forum. You will be able to log into your regular account when the ban expires. I will not remove it beforehand, and be aware that any similar offenses will result in more and longer bans. one1 Super User Sent 25 April 2013 - 09:41 AM Okay, thanks. I thought you banned me permanently. one1 Super User Sent 29 April 2013 - 05:39 PM It has been 12 days and I can't log on. Is it supposed to automatically unlock my account after a week? M2 Administrator Sent 29 April 2013 - 06:53 PM I just did a search for your profile via the admin section but it is not showing up. I don't know why, but I can tell you I didn't delete it. That doesn't mean another moderator or admin didn't. Permanently banned accounts will still show up, deleted ones will not. The last copy of your profile I can locate using a different search was dated 22 Mar 13 with the following stats: Group Supreme User Active Posts 426 (0.86 per day) Most Active In Squadron Bar (229 posts) Profile Views 1,656 With a reputation of 53. I can restore your post count, status and reputation using the new account you created if for some reason I cannot recover your old account. Standby and I will get back to you. Until then, feel free to use the new account you set up. M2 Sent 01 May 2013 - 06:37 PM Sorry, but I cannot recover your old account. It is not showing up in the AdminCP software that runs the forum, not even under banned, locked or any of the other categories. I even searched on your IP address and email with no luck. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do beyond changing your Member Title and Post Count to reflect the last status I could find from 22 March stats. I'll see if any of the other administrators have any ideas, but I don't think the odds are good that anyone will be able to do anything more than I have. M2 Administrator Sent 01 May 2013 - 07:29 PM Well, got an explanation as to what may have happened... Quote Due to the overwhelming number of spammers that create accounts daily (usually hundreds), I have a daily routine of deleting anybody in the banned or spammer list. One of the forum experts will see if there is any way to recover your old account, but at this point it may just be gone. one1 Super User Sent 01 May 2013 - 10:47 PM Okay. Thank you. I am sure I am not the only person that has had their account “accidentally” deleted. I know on political and social issues I might be the minority here but I really never saw myself as saying anything inappropriate. People have said some pretty horrible things on this forum (rape, sexual assault, racial and sexist remarks towards military officers or government officials) on this website, but if you argue about something like gun control, you better choose your words wisely. I am not saying this to complain. I am more than happy just lurking on the forum. I am okay with someone calling me a fucking idiot about my point of views, but when admin start to change the content of user posts and constantly ban users, what is the point of logging in when you are better off reading the forum as a guest. When you start banning people left and right, tell every new member to STFU, and discourage opposing views, don’t be surprised when Baseops numbers slowly decrease. I don’t have anything against M2 or any of the other moderators. I am just surprised at how serious some of the moderators are on this site. If you met another military member in person and bullshitted with them at the bar and disagreed with them about something, you wouldn’t go on a crazy tirade and try to shut them up. You would laugh at them for being stupid, maybe make a joke or two at their expense, and then buy them a beer. Why are other down to earth individuals that are educated military members act like different people when they are communicating over the internet? It has already been said, but if you met the guy that proposed to the cheerleader, would you really have the balls to say the same shit to him in person at the bar? That isn’t some random, unknown dude. He is someone that you could be TDY or deployed with. I think that people get it in their head that they should treat this forum like one of the thousands of other forums that are found on the internet. Maybe I am wrong, but I don’t remember the forum being this way 5 years ago. Edited October 22, 2014 by one1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurelySerious Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 For all you guys encouraging Rainman: don't. While much of his advice is timeless, another big part is obsolete and no longer welcome in today's Air Force. Call it bullying, or sexism, or whatever you want, but that behavior isn't smart these days, and he sensed it soon before leaving. You mean direct feedback? You should try it sometime. It's amazing how much more effective a fighting force is when the expectations are clear and improper performance is corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hispeed7721 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You mean direct feedback? You should try it sometime. It's amazing how much more effective a fighting force is when the expectations are clear and improper performance is corrected. Like USAFPilot said, that type of behavior isn't smart these days. :facepalm: Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ram Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) Best, most concise response. For all you guys encouraging Rainman: don't. While much of his advice is timeless, another big part is obsolete and no longer welcome in today's Air Force. Call it bullying, or sexism, or whatever you want, but that behavior isn't smart these days, and he sensed it soon before leaving. Yeah, direct feedback and honesty are a thing of the past. Maybe the same can be said about that whole "winning wars" thing we had going... Or, you could just shut the fuck up. How's that for bullying? Edited October 22, 2014 by Ram 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DFRESH Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 So let me get this straight, you're saying that this board is going to hell in a hand basket because somebody posted some shit 3 years ago that still has your hurt feelings meter pegged? Bro, give it a rest. Also, let me squash something right meow. This is NOT a "USAF OFFICER'S" website. The whole point of this forum for many people is the ability to post their thoughts anonymously. Yes, many people here are Officers, some are Enlisted, some are Civilians, many belong to other governmental agencies. Furthermore, if you think for one second this forum is going the way of the real squadrons, please leave now. I honestly believe that this forum will still be a guiding light for young folks (like myself only 7 short years ago) to STFU and learn some shit about becoming an aviator. It will still be a no-ranks place to bitch and moan and sometimes even post some positive feedback that very senior folks will lurk and read (or occasionally respond to!). I'm all for people offering up ideas to make the site better (use the app yet?), but some of your stuff is just RTFO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discus Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Angry words Dude, chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discus Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'll let my previous post stand on it's own without edit. I think this thread has had some great, open back and forth on opinions. I hope that it can remain open and those opinions can be addressed (Gravedigger viewpoint V. Toro, etc). USAF Pilot, there is a point in time when you go over the top and people just shut out your noise. You are there. Let the conversation continue for a while without your input you might be surprised what people are able to work out without getting beat over the head at every corner. If you can't do that, Mods, I suggest you lock 'er up as this thread is now pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herkbum Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 words Do you ever get tired of carrying that soap box around? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravedigger Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Gravedigger viewpoint V. Toro, etc. I actually took Toro's initial meme post as a tongue and cheek nod to how ridiculous the body analyzing had become. I think he has done a great job moderating through the years and I've learned a lot from him. My comments are not to further any agenda, burn any witches, or cast a holier-than-thou attitude. I'm stating a view-point on sexual harassment that many don't agree with, but my point is that is ok. The world would be pretty fucking dull if everyone agreed on everything. That said, I personally don't think that's the image we want to give off here at Baseops or in the Air Force. Did you ever see the South Park about the war in Iraq? The moral of the story is that we need to go to war to protect ourselves, but we also need protests and dissenters so that our country doesn't just look like war hungry assholes. That's what makes our country, and these forums, great. Also, I think this horse has been dead a while now, and we're still kicking the shit out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toro Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The ### words are FPhcking Khunt (BODN blocks the words from my posts, but Rainman had special authority to call females Khunts using proper and unblocked spelling. Nice job mods) Nice try, but this isn't some special treatment we gave Rainman, it's a function of the control panel. The CP will block any words from a set database until the user has reached a certain number of posts or time as a registered user. Is BODN not designed for officer aircrew? Asked an answered...No. This is designed for prospective, current, soon to be gone, separated, retired, and wannabe military members. The focus is obviously aircrew, be we have a small pockets of other AFSCs to include cyber, medical, and the all-encompassing "shoe clerk". Some of those folks have been the greatest contributors to our discussions based on our limited knowledge of those areas, just as we are great contributors of knowledge to the college kids seeking out a flying career. Another problem you have is that the BODN "squadron bar" is not a squadron bar. A squadron bar is a very limited number of like-minded individuals without recording devices. BODN "squadron bar" is an open internet forum for all the world to see (not even a login required to view) and some of the postings are even more disgusting than what you see in your neighborhood fighter squadron bar. A squadron bar is where people go at the end of the day to relax and shoot the shit and not talk about work queep, and that's what our squadron bar is. Since I know that you were not around when the BODN squadron bar was created, I'll give you some background. Many years ago, this entire forum was almost exclusively a flying forum and had a significantly fewer number of sub forums. The occasional non-flying topic would come up and many times it would devolve into arguments. There was a proposal - which I was completely opposed to - that we create the squadron bar as a location to divert that discussion. It has for the most part been successful, with the occasional bad apple that drags topics into the mud. The squadron bar isn't the kind of stuff you would see at work - hence the overt labeling of NSFW. I personally don't go to about 90% of the recurring squadron bar threads unless I'm notified via a report. It's not because I think they're offensive, I just don't particularly care about them. I suggest you do the same. I'll say this, Rainman did have one good piece of advice: Never talk to the media. Guess what you dingleberries are doing with every single post on BODN? Showing your ass is what you're doing, and it aint pretty. Recommend either eliminating the sexist NSFW drivel from BODN or making it login-required. You're not doing yourselves any favors by fighting for a Tailhook website. Too many of the mods are stuck in some glorified, olden days AF, which most of them never even experienced. Too many BODN members fight to maintain the status quo or to even move things in a direction the public and government will never return to. Not a whole lot of leadership in that... You continuously miss the point that while many members of this website are military members, this is not a military website and it is in no way affiliated with the Air Force. The fact that the Air Force Times comes here and quotes anonymous posters for their articles doesn't highlight anything unprofessional on the Air Force, it highlights the fact that the Air Force Times has hack reporters who can't or won't get somebody to go on the record to make a quote supporting their inflammatory articles. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HU&W Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Many words Your writing style, word choice, and argument structure are nearly identical to a previous poster on this forum, PYB/CannonCrashPad. I don't know if you're the same guy with just another new account (if so, congrats on your upcoming retirement) or if you're just trolling. Either way, circular and strawman arguments end up falling flat when mixed with such vitriol. I don't really get your objective here, but it seems much more about tearing down than trying to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDiggler Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm not even sure why we're having a discussion with USAFpilot. He preaches quite a bit from his soapbox yet a short while back he wrote a pages long dissertation in another thread (not sure which and don't feel like looking it up) blaming the Jews for every problem in America. Kinda lost most of his credibility back then (unless you're the tinfoil hat type). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterKing Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 (edited) If you want "to get this straight," then read what my response was for. People try to depict Rainman as some kind of model of officership, and I pointed out how he would not even exist in today's AF. Yes, that was only three years ago. Three years ago, and that thread is full of comments from gearpig, ClearedHot, M2, and a bunch of others either piling on or condoning Rainman's comments, and y'all successfully eliminated a cadet from the forums. Nice job! I doubt those mods would make the same comments today, out of political correctness. That's how fast this stuff is changing. Is BODN not designed for officer aircrew? Sure, we also have Steve Davis and Scoobs and BQZip's mom and random journalists lurking on here, all the more reason to have some standards of decency. BODN is not keeping up with the AF, not even close, yet if this is supposed to be a forum for Air Force Officer aircrew (and others), and if your intent is to provide some mentorship, maybe, just maybe you guys need to make some attempt at reflecting good officership. Another problem you have is that the BODN "squadron bar" is not a squadron bar. A squadron bar is a very limited number of like-minded individuals without recording devices. BODN "squadron bar" is an open internet forum for all the world to see (not even a login required to view) and some of the postings are even more disgusting than what you see in your neighborhood fighter squadron bar. BODN need to have a meeting and get on the same page because you guys clearly are not. You have mods contradicting each other and deleting each other's posts. I'll say this, Rainman did have one good piece of advice: Never talk to the media. Guess what you dingleberries are doing with every single post on BODN? Showing your ass is what you're doing, and it aint pretty. Recommend either eliminating the sexist NSFW drivel from BODN or making it login-required. You're not doing yourselves any favors by fighting for a Tailhook website. Too many of the mods are stuck in some glorified, olden days AF, which most of them never even experienced. Too many BODN members fight to maintain the status quo or to even move things in a direction the public and government will never return to. Not a whole lot of leadership in that... You are a raging tool. If you want a website keeping up with the "modern" Air Force and armed forces, scurry on over to Pinterest. "Modern" in this sense is not a good thing. Those prior generations you denigrate are the same ones that stomped the guts out of the Axis, won the Cold War, plowed through Iraq in 100 days, etc. Today I need a quorum of lawyers to commune for 60 minutes before going kinetic on a TIC, but only after I've done 900 suicide awareness briefs, signed a page 13 promising not to beat my wife, and given up all vices. Mission succes and support of the troops be damned, being (and more importantly looking) PC has become priority number one, and a great cost. Nice work. Edited October 22, 2014 by BolterKing 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BolterKing Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I'm an officer. I don't give two flying ######s about thumbs ups or thumbs down. And you shouldn't either unless you're a 13 year old girl. As for Masshole's and Rainman's history, that's no excuse for what he posted. No excuse. lol Are you saying that I'm PYB? False. I'm not PYB. And PYB says he's not me. Here's proof. " Gearpig makes a couple of accusations, and it would appear he may think I am USAFPilot on his forum, which I am not." Jesus, you guys think that we must be the same person because we both think the Constitution should be followed? False. If you want to talk shit, do it accurately: Post it, then dispute what I wrote Another totally false accusation. Quote where I "denigrate" prior generations. What I'm saying is that calling cadets Khunts is not very officerly, no matter what "history" exists. In no context is it acceptable for a retired officer to be "mentoring" cadets and junior officers with that language. Also, you must not be involved in today's fight, or yesterday's, or tomorrow's. If you were, you would know going kinetic is not difficult, not by a long shot... Get back to raising gear handles. Kinetic WASN'T difficult when supporting the guys on the ground was priority one, then in 2007 things changed. In 2008-9 it was difficult, in 2011 the turn around was averaging 30-60 minutes. On more than one occasion I watched guys on the ground suffer because chariot denied requests for fire. Retired guys can do what they want, that's the beauty of being retired. That gear handle pays a buttload now and keeps me home with the family 15 days a month... but haters gonna hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirkDiggler Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 You ever notice how every one of USAFPilot, PYB, Cannoncrashpad, whatever flavor he's calling himself this week's posting always ends up going personal (sometimes intensely so) when people on this forum don't listen and agree with his bizarre ranting. Its like watching someone with Alzheimer's forgetting that they already got in the same fight over and over. Funny, but also kinda sad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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