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China Unveils 2nd "5th Gen" Prototype

brewskis

By brewskis
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Darth
Darth

We can only hope they will try to make STOVL and VTOL variants. That will slow 'em down.

GearDownNoGreen
GearDownNoGreen
17D_guy
17D_guy

First F-35 operational flight? F-22's deploy to a warzone?

Steve Davies Gray Beard

Steve Davies

Posted
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Wow... for takeoff little wheel blocks come out of the flight deck as you spool up the motors and then you're off to hit that ramp!

Interesting. If they build nine more and develop tactics for sixty years or so the Navy might have to step up their game.

Not new.

http://img841.images...2/holdback2.jpg

The Liaoning is formerly the Riga, a Kuznetsov-class carrier: wiki.

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kchsload Crew Dawg

kchsload

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So what happens in 2045?

The communist party will be lucky to be around by 2045. The way the Chinese economy is cooling off there's talk about Xi Jinping being the last Communist President of China. But that's all heresy. 7% is the magic number for the Chinese economy, any growth less than that and were going to start seeing higher unemployment leading to lots of free time to scheme up crazy revolutionary ideas. Not what the CCP wants.

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kchsload Crew Dawg

kchsload

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Just came across this. If the Il-76 and C-17 were to have a one night stand it would make the Chinese Y-20. Rumored to have roughly the same capabilities as the -17 but will need years of testing since the Chinese have little to no experience designing heavies. When it does turn operational it will fill one of the PLA's largest gaps: projection and mobility. Currently, China is lacking any long range mobility, to the point that when it came time to evacuate Chinese embassy personal out of Libya last year, Beijing had to charter several private ships to pick them up.

Pakistan's military boards really seem to be following the development of the Y-20.

2009_11_28_41515_10341515.jpg

Il76-110126_copy1.jpg

The Il-476 is a modified version of the Russian-built Ilyushin I-76. (Internet photo)

The Russian built Il-476 will be purchased by the People's Liberation Army Air Force to create a strategic transport fleet before the China-designed Y-20 four-engine transport starts its test flight, reports Hong Kong-based Phoenix Television.

Even though China's aviation industries have spent years to develop mid-air refueling, early warning systems, electronic warfare, command and control aircraft and fifth-generation stealth fighters such as the J-20, the PLA Air Force understands that the strategic transport aircraft with a similar capability to the US C-17 will also be crucial for China to project its force overseas.

China purchased 34 Il-76MD from Russia in 2005. Four additional Il-78MKs with air refueling capability were also ordered that year.

Since China needs more transport aircraft than Russia can provide, Y-20 four-engine turbojet transports with a design similar to both the C-17 and Il-76, were made by Xi'an Aircraft Industrial Corporation in 2009. Without enough experience in developing long range transport aircraft, military analysts stated that the Y-20 will unable to begin its service with the Chinese air force for five years. To fill in the gap, Rosoboronexport, Russia's state-run arms exporter, suggested that the Chinese government purchase its Il-476 transports, according to Moscow-based Interfax.

Based on the designation of Il-76, the Il-476 will enter the service of Russian air force between 2014 and 2015. Before the Y-20 is available, China will need dozens of large transports like the Il-476 to participate in UN peacekeeping and humanitarian missions. For this reason, China may become the first foreign customer for the Russian built Il-476. With enough capability to fly 850 kilometers in one hour and a total range of 7,000 kilometers, the test flights of Il-476 will also begin this September.

Edited by kchsload
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ForgotPassword Crew Dawg

ForgotPassword

Posted
Posted

The communist party will be lucky to be around by 2045. The way the Chinese economy is cooling off there's talk about Xi Jinping being the last Communist President of China. But that's all heresy. 7% is the magic number for the Chinese economy, any growth less than that and were going to start seeing higher unemployment leading to lots of free time to scheme up crazy revolutionary ideas. Not what the CCP wants.

They're gonna do a lot better than 7%

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Slander Flight Lead

Slander

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Obviously, such method requires the stealth plane to fly with the open bay doors for a certain amount of time, a condition that can limit the aircraft performance, maneuverability, and increases the overall plane’s RCS, with a temporary exposure of the aircraft to the enemy radars.

Something that can be quite lethal in a Within Visual Range scenario.

Wrong. If I'm WVR with someone, I don't care what their RCS is, because I'm looking at them with my eyes.

OK, suppose they meant BVR and my RCS increased when I push the pickle button to launch a missile. Let's talk about what that actually means:

1) I've already seen him, created a launch quality que, and am shooting at him

2) So my RCS increases when the door opens, a missile pops out, he gets a lock on me. Then the missile goes away, the door closes, and depending on my range and flow, I either leave or ensure merge cleanup and watch his "Mighty Dragon" die. But as soon as my door closes...can his radar maintain the lock? Maybe...maybe not.

Suppose I'm not using an AMRAAM but an AIM-9 instead and that's why my missile is hanging out in the windstream. I'm probably not doing that at range, so I revert to my comment about being WVR...it doesn't matter what my RCS is because we're staring at each other across the circle.

I hate it when people who don't know about things talk as if they do. I hate it a lot. Maybe I'm doing it right now but don't realize it. Whatever.

edit to add paragraph about AIM-9.

Edited by Slander
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Bergman Gray Beard

Bergman

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Pakistan's military boards really seem to be following the development of the Y-20.

Probably because they're the ones who stole the C-17 blueprints and sold them to the Chinese!

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ForgotPassword Crew Dawg

ForgotPassword

Posted
Posted

Wrong. If I'm WVR with someone, I don't care what their RCS is, because I'm looking at them with my eyes.

OK, suppose they meant BVR and my RCS increased when I push the pickle button to launch a missile. Let's talk about what that actually means:

1) I've already seen him, created a launch quality que, and am shooting at him

2) So my RCS increases when the door opens, a missile pops out, he gets a lock on me. Then the missile goes away, the door closes, and depending on my range and flow, I either leave or ensure merge cleanup and watch his "Mighty Dragon" die. But as soon as my door closes...can his radar maintain the lock? Maybe...maybe not.

Suppose I'm not using an AMRAAM but an AIM-9 instead and that's why my missile is hanging out in the windstream. I'm probably not doing that at range, so I revert to my comment about being WVR...it doesn't matter what my RCS is because we're staring at each other across the circle.

I hate it when people who don't know about things talk as if they do. I hate it a lot. Maybe I'm doing it right now but don't realize it. Whatever.

edit to add paragraph about AIM-9.

Your scenario is assuming a relatively benign environment.

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Slander Flight Lead

Slander

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Posted

Your scenario is assuming a relatively benign environment.

No, if I'm WVR with someone, I'm looking at them and I still don't care what my RCS is for follow on threats, I have to kill the guy I'm anchored with first. Plus, if I'm anchored with them fighting a data-link capable threat, odds are his buddies know where I am anyway.

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kchsload Crew Dawg

kchsload

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Should be interesting to see how China uses this drone and the others that are in development. A few months ago China was on the hunt for a group that killed 13 Chinese fishermen on the Mekong River, when they found the killers on the Chinese-Burma border they were contemplating using a drone fired missile but reportedly decided to use to special forces due to their concerns over effective drone use; not to mention the chance to parade the killers around and show their execution on live TV in order to show how hard the leaders are working for the people.

An interesting point raised by The NYT was what will the US do if China decides to use these drones to kill what they've labeled as terrorists (Uyghur's, Tibetan dissidents or more of the above) outside of their own border. We've created a bit of a disturbing international norm in this sense.

This could also put Taiwan on edge, especially if the stealth proves to be effective and allows the Mainland to survey from the air at will. They still have a ways to go, but are catching up rapidly.

Edited by kchsload
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kchsload Crew Dawg

kchsload

Posted
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Beijing just announced a rather large swath of the air space over the East China sea is now under their influence and control. Much of this a big "###### you" to Tokyo as this East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone covers the air space over a set "islands" (read: small rocks protruding from the ocean that are projected to contain large amounts of natural resources) that the several countries are claiming ownership of but are currently controlled by Tokyo. I can not overstate the amount of nationalism, from both sides, that is attached to these rocks. More so, the Communist Party has made this such an issue of this over the years that it risks a loss of legitimacy if these rocks are further secured by Japan. This has been a major issues since the '90's and one of many of the reasons China and Japan have such a hard time playing nice.

Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the P.R.C. ( Source: Xinhua ) 2013-November-23 10:00

　　BEIJING, Nov. 23 (Xinhua) -- China's Ministry of National Defense issued an announcement of the aircraft identification rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the People's Republic of China. Following is the full text:

　　Announcement of the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone of the People's Republic of China

　　Issued by the Ministry of National Defense on November 23

　　The Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China, in accordance with the Statement by the Government of the People's Republic of China on Establishing the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone, now announces the Aircraft Identification Rules for the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone as follows:

　　First, aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must abide by these rules.

　　Second, aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must provide the following means of identification:

　　1. Flight plan identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone should report the flight plans to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the People's Republic of China or the Civil Aviation Administration of China.

　　2. Radio identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must maintain the two-way radio communications, and respond in a timely and accurate manner to the identification inquiries from the administrative organ of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone or the unit authorized by the organ.

　　3. Transponder identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone, if equipped with the secondary radar transponder, should keep the transponder working throughout the entire course.

　　4. Logo identification. Aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone must clearly mark their nationalities and the logo of their registration identification in accordance with related international treaties.

　　Third, aircraft flying in the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone should follow the instructions of the administrative organ of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone or the unit authorized by the organ. China's armed forces will adopt defensive emergency measures to respond to aircraft that do not cooperate in the identification or refuse to follow the instructions.

　　Fourth, the Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China is the administrative organ of the East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone.

　　Fifth, the Ministry of National Defense of the People's Republic of China is responsible for the explanation of these rules.

　　Sixth, these rules will come into force at 10 a.m. November 23, 2013.

Here's a map: 142833f730f44761770597.jpg

Edited by kchsload
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