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What's wrong with the Air Force?


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On 9/30/2018 at 8:47 AM, matmacwc said:

Damn son

Wow! No wonder he was so motivated to overcome injuries, I bet when he had a chance to be coherent to know how damaged he was he did a package check. 

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17 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Wow! No wonder he was so motivated to overcome injuries, I bet when he had a chance to be coherent to know how damaged he was he did a package check. 

And I'll bet he (they) were happy campers when he found out everything was OPS Ck good, green em' up FMC. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I need you guys to check me. I think I'm in shoe clerk hell. Rant light on:

"If airmen can't complete said obstacle course, they can't graduate. They should be on medical hold. While at this obstacle course they need to practice MOPP and combative skills training to graduate blah blah.."

Me: Enlisted airmen aren't the ones taking out the bad guys based on my deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan unless they are a JTAC or a Sensor Operator. I don't think the CSAF is going to be happy you held a pharmacy tech back because they rolled an ankle and couldn't do an obstacle course. Chances are the CSAF doesn't want to wait 2 hours to pick up his medication at the pharmacy just like the rest of us. Is a rolled ankle going to prevent you from completing tech school to hand out meds? No, then he or she should graduate. The same could be said about  other AFSCs in the AF. Before you deploy you typically receive the training you actually need. 

Am I out of order with my thinking?

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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2 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I need you guys to check me. I think I'm in shoe clerk hell. Rant light on:

"If airmen can't complete said obstacle course, they can't graduate. They should be on medical hold. While at this obstacle course they need to practice MOPP and combative skills training to graduate blah blah.."

Me: Enlisted airmen aren't the ones taking out the bad guys based on my deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan unless they are a JTAC or a Sensor Operator. I don't think the CSAF is going to be happy you held a pharmacy tech back because they rolled an ankle and couldn't do an obstacle course. Chances are he doesn't want to wait 2 hours to pick up his medication at the pharmacy just like the rest of us. Is a rolled ankle going to prevent you from completing tech school to hand out meds? No, then he or she should graduate. The same could be said about  other AFSCs in the AF. Before you deploy you typically receive the training you actually need. 

Am I out of order with my thinking?

You’re on point. I rolled my ankle playing hoops at ASBC eons ago. I asked my flight CC if I could skip one or two of their retarded “kill the bunny” exercises and just do everything else because my ankle was black/blue and hurt like hell. It was a bad sprain.

After “consulting” with the SQ/CC they thought it best that I just go home and come back again later if I couldn’t do EVERYTHING. I told the captain that he and the CC were clueless (which he didn’t appreciate from a Lt, if you can imagine that), sucked it up and stayed. AF leadership hasn’t changed much in 16 years. Sad. 

Edited by ViperStud
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1 hour ago, ViperStud said:

You’re on point. I rolled my ankle playing hoops at ASBC eons ago. I asked my flight CC if I could skip one or two of their retarded “kill the bunny” exercises and just do everything else because my ankle was black/blue and hurt like hell. It was a bad sprain.

After “consulting” with the SQ/CC they thought it best that I just go home and come back again later if I couldn’t do EVERYTHING. I told the captain that he and the CC were clueless (which he didn’t appreciate from a Lt, if you can imagine that), sucked it up and stayed. AF leadership hasn’t changed much in 16 years. Sad. 

ASBC died for a reason and only a moron would say you need to do anything at ASBC. ASBC was nothing but stolen syllabuses from ALS, the USAFA, and AFROTC. Kind of like someone asked me if you waive people to do said obstacle course what would happen to us that manage/instruct? I was like it would go away like ASBC. Teach them how to dodge flooding behind a B-hut in Afghanistan.

That's ironic because I injured my back toward the end of ASBC. Instructor said he never knew because I only spoke when necessary. We were like 0/5 for challenges until he put me in charge of one. My class told me I had to run for one of the final class competitions. We can come in first because you are fast they told me. I sucked it up and ran. I found out a year and a half later I ran on a herniated disc.

At SOS some 7 years later, I injure my back. I did the leadership course prior to the  injury. After the injury I was mostly a safety observer. I ran during the last week of SOS and I think one of my classmates got sick. Leadership was trying to pressure the guy to run. During my parting shot speech, I asked my class what happened to taking care of people? Who cares about points for a run because someone drops out. Absolute buffoonery...

One back surgery later, pushing through pain to run was probably not a good idea back in my younger days. It wasn't a back injury. It was a herniated disc pressing against a nerve.

 

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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6 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I need you guys to check me. I think I'm in shoe clerk hell. Rant light on:

"If airmen can't complete said obstacle course, they can't graduate. They should be on medical hold. While at this obstacle course they need to practice MOPP and combative skills training to graduate blah blah.."

Me: Enlisted airmen aren't the ones taking out the bad guys based on my deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan unless they are a JTAC or a Sensor Operator. I don't think the CSAF is going to be happy you held a pharmacy tech back because they rolled an ankle and couldn't do an obstacle course. Chances are the CSAF doesn't want to wait 2 hours to pick up his medication at the pharmacy just like the rest of us. Is a rolled ankle going to prevent you from completing tech school to hand out meds? No, then he or she should graduate. The same could be said about  other AFSCs in the AF. Before you deploy you typically receive the training you actually need. 

Am I out of order with my thinking?

Nope. Spot on. Much like the O senior leadership I have found myself speechless at some of the bs that comes out of our senior Es. Mostly being the near 20 year types that were prob young NCOs around the safety belt/sock inspection era. Don’t get me wrong, some of these guys are shit hot, but more than a few are off their rocker. My old unit had a shirt that was non aircrew, he spent most his day wondering the squadron correcting people for “only having their backpack on their right shoulder”, (didn’t know that was even a thing) asking the last time they shaved, open zippers and other non sense. Meanwhile some of Es had real issues that needed mentoring/help and were to afraid to talk to him because he was such a dick. 

I would say it’s a systematic problem with our E culture to blindly follow rules to the T, without ever wondering if they have meant the intent of the reg/pub/rule/course. 

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Agreed. And why have a chief parking spot when every person that out ranks him can park there. Never understood that one.

 

Over powering senior E’s with a lack of guidance to properly carry out the mission is a major problem. As well as people and organizations who support the mission (which is essentially everyone) thinking they are the mission and forgetting they support something else other than themselves. (Again pretty much everyone)

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3 hours ago, Prozac said:

Why does a pharmacy tech need to be a uniformed military member? Seriously. That question applies to any number of jobs. 

A pharmacy tech told me the CSAF has to pick up his meds too. Civilian pharmacy techs at a certain base be like, "we are out at 1700...peace." But the CSAF needs his meds and he called to say he would be late. Oh, our civilians.....

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A pharmacy tech told me the CSAF has to pick up his meds too. Civilian pharmacy techs at a certain base be like, "we are out at 1700...peace." But the CSAF needs his meds and he called to say he would be late. Oh, our civilians.....


Staying until 1700 everyday could be an improvement, depending on which base you're at.

To your point, I bet they believe warriors need an obstacle course. ...and that, my friend, is what we are/are making motherfvcking warriors.

Now recite the Airman's Creed out loud,
~Bendy
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21 minutes ago, Bender said:

Staying until 1700 everyday could be an improvement, depending on which base you're at.


To your point, I bet they believe warriors need an obstacle course. ...and that, my friend, is what we are/are making motherfvcking warriors.

Now recite the Airman's Creed out loud,
~Bendy

 

If you want airmen to be expeditionary then you have to train for the fight. All these training days off medical and finance receive, some needs to be converted into days where they shoot, practice MOPP, and combative skills. Most of them will never use this training unless they PCS to Korea to sit in MOPP gear.

When a base was attacked in Afghanistan, a bad ass from special forces went outside the wire to kill one of the insurgents in PT gear. Watching it on video looked really cool. Wasn't AF that ran outside of the wire. When the bases are being attacked it's Special Forces or a Task Force that rolls up the bad people. 

Does anyone remember the attack on Camp Learherneck in Afghanistan where the insurgents took out 2 harrier jets? So insurgents were able to penetrate a base held by Marines. Just think about a base with only shoe clerks and Security Forces protecting the base and aircraft.

Shoe Clerk Airbase: "The insurgents are attacking! Did they not see the sign on the gate because we are doing training and X-mas party planning."

Insurgents: Oh, we will come back later.
 

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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22 minutes ago, Bender said:

 


Staying until 1700 everyday could be an improvement, depending on which base you're at.

 

 

Better than "closed for training" all day long. Or how it seems every admin office decides they all need to take lunch at the same time rather than split it up because we couldn't actually be available to those they're supporting. That sounds like work. 

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1 hour ago, LiquidSky said:

Better than "closed for training" all day long. Or how it seems every admin office decides they all need to take lunch at the same time rather than split it up because we couldn't actually be available to those they're supporting. That sounds like work. 

SARM office was pulling that crap. I rolled in on them hot. Where is SARM? Lunch... leaving early..WTH?  Have to work at the Med Group or in the MPS for those types of hours.

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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If you want airmen to be expeditionary then you have to train for the fight. All these training days off medical and finance receive, some needs to be converted into days where they shoot, practice MOPP, and combative skills. Most of them will never use this training unless they PCS to Korea to sit in MOPP gear.
When a base was attacked in Afghanistan, a bad ass from special forces went outside the wire to kill one of the insurgents in PT gear. Watching it on video looked really cool. Wasn't AF that ran outside of the wire. When the bases are being attacked it's Special Forces or a Task Force that rolls up the bad people. 
Does anyone remember the attack on Camp Learherneck in Afghanistan where the insurgents took out 2 harrier jets? So insurgents were able to penetrate a base held by Marines. Just think about a base with only shoe clerks and Security Forces protecting the base and aircraft.
Shoe Clerk Airbase: "The insurgents are attacking! Did they not see the sign on the gate because we are doing training and X-mas party planning."
Insurgents: Oh, we will come back later.
 


You mean Camp Bastion where they destroyed 6 Harriers?
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2 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

If you want airmen to be expeditionary then you have to train for the fight. All these training days off medical and finance receive, some needs to be converted into days where they shoot, practice MOPP, and combative skills. Most of them will never use this training unless they PCS to Korea to sit in MOPP gear.

When a base was attacked in Afghanistan, a bad ass from special forces went outside the wire to kill one of the insurgents in PT gear. Watching it on video looked really cool. Wasn't AF that ran outside of the wire. When the bases are being attacked it's Special Forces or a Task Force that rolls up the bad people. 
 

If you want your finance troop to be effective at combat, then you have to actually train them properly on how to be effective. That means training with firearm outside the CATM range doing convoy ops, base defense, CQB, etc. Otherwise they are just checking off items to green up a slide and are more of a liability than an asset. 

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10 hours ago, Prozac said:

Why does a pharmacy tech need to be a uniformed military member? Seriously. That question applies to any number of jobs. 

They don’t have to be, but it helps, here is why: you can’t force a civilian to come in at 2200 on a Saturday to give malaria pills or ambien to aircrew deploying short notice the next day.  Also, it’s a lot harder to fire civilians when they suck at their jobs.  

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10 hours ago, Prozac said:

Why does a pharmacy tech need to be a uniformed military member? Seriously. That question applies to any number of jobs. 

Same reason the US is still in Afghanistan, with no end state in mind and zero incentive to ever win.  ForeverWar feeds the jobs program that is the Defense Industrial Complex.  

As another poster pointed out- once you realize the purpose of the DoD is to spend taxpayer money, everything starts to make sense.

 

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It was the single largest loss of Marine aircraft in an attack ever. If I remember right. 

 

It was also over in minutes. Not before Marines on the flight line led by the squadron commander (who was KIA) dropped whatever they were doing to stand too and fight. Those Marines were reinforced by Rangers from TF 3-10 and the insurgents basically died fighting in place.

 

They took out every Harrier in the squadron (9 at the base) with a platoon size element that snuck through the post incident identified serious security hazard of a shanty town allowed to build up next to the perimeter fence. Dudes were wearing a cobbling together of stolen Coalition uniforms and sneakers/small arms with a bunch of grenades they used to demo the aircraft. Once they got a fire going, the moved to the next in succession. Doesn’t take long for aircraft in parking to end up like this 7e67ad8de4228cb8dd3d19500a463aa3.jpg

 

It didn’t help the night of the attack it was near zero illumination and crap ceilings. So complacency of “nothings going down tonight, let’s play some Xbox” was in full effect.

 

After that we finally got some level of security with T walls and an active security force in the towers at Mustang Ramp in KAF. We obviously completely forgot all those lessons though after my last trip to Taji.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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1 hour ago, Lawman said:

 

It was also over in minutes. Not before Marines on the flight line led by the squadron commander (who was KIA) dropped whatever they were doing to stand too and fight. Those Marines were reinforced by Rangers from TF 3-10 and the insurgents basically died fighting in place.

 

They took out every Harrier in the squadron (9 at the base) with a platoon size element that snuck through the post incident identified serious security hazard of a shanty town allowed to build up next to the perimeter fence. Dudes were wearing a cobbling together of stolen Coalition uniforms and sneakers/small arms with a bunch of grenades they used to demo the aircraft. Once they got a fire going, the moved to the next in succession. Doesn’t take long for aircraft in parking to end up like this 7e67ad8de4228cb8dd3d19500a463aa3.jpg

 

It didn’t help the night of the attack it was near zero illumination and crap ceilings. So complacency of “nothings going down tonight, let’s play some Xbox” was in full effect.

 

After that we finally got some level of security with T walls and an active security force in the towers at Mustang Ramp in KAF. We obviously completely forgot all those lessons though after my last trip to Taji.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Loved flying over that house directly on the fence every day and picturing a dude stepping out with an RPG and making things interesting

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Expeditionary Mindset - Complete loss of SA on the peacetime aspect when you are captured because you strayed across a border during an exercise in a military vehicle. How do you handle yourself? Thinking of Navy P-3 crew who declared an IFE and landed an ISR asset in China. They received specialized training for peacetime that I was fortunate enough to attend as well.

Most countries will quickly realize SrA Hung and SSgt Ball are just finance troops. They strayed across the border because both were playing Fortnite on their phones or using the  Polish Tinder app.

 

Edited by HarleyQuinn
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How many aircraft has the USAF lost to ground attack since the Vietnam War?

A look back at ground attacks on USAF Air Bases, Aircraft Destroyed/Damaged, Casualties, and Evolution of USAF Air Base Defense during the Vietnam War (1964-1973).

- Total Attacks; 475.

- Aircraft Destroyed/Damaged; US Aircraft Destroyed 75/US Aircraft Damaged 898 and RVN Aircraft Destroyed 25/RVN Aircraft Damaged 305.

- Casualties; US Casualties KIA-155/WIA-1702 and RVN Casualties KIA-154/WIA 504. 

- Data from 10 USAF Air Bases; Bien Hoa (BH); Binh Thny (BT); Cam Ranh Bay (CBR): Da Nang (DN); Nha
Trang (NT); Phan Rang (PR); Phu Cat (PC); Pleiku (PK); Tuy Hoa (TH); Tan Son
Nhut (TSN).
- Type of attacks: Standoff (m); Sapper (SAP); Standoff and Sapper Multi-
Battalion (MBN); Sabotage (SAB); Automatic Weapons (AWP).

 

https://media.defense.gov/2010/Sep/21/2001330253/-1/-1/0/AFD-100921-023.pdf

 

 

 

Edited by waveshaper
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