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What's wrong with the Air Force?


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One might state the obvious with a "you first."

But one is retired and thus a "quitter" because the giveash1t meter pegged simultaneously with the OLC to the tilting at windmills award.

"One" speaks only in the third person, which makes me believe you're too big a "game of thrones" fan, hammered, or reeling from liquid touching on a sore subject.

No one called retirees quitters but you.

Edited by sqwatch
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and lastly, a community of politically incorrect brotherhood built upon relative lack of turnover, which makes active duty look like a bunch of ######ing 3-level equivalent JCPenney cashiers on their second week on the job.

Yeah buddy, guys like him probably couldn't tell a Reservist from the Taliban judging by the traits he values.

I did a three year guard tour flying vipers for TFAP or whatever they're calling it now. It didn't make me an expert on guard affairs, but it gave me an appreciation of a couple of the points you address- homesteading, a civilian job that is the priority during peacetime, and continuity due to lack of turnover. When it comes to the "band of brothers" type of camaraderie you allege, that isn't what I observed and frankly I think you're full of sh1t to downplay the bonds made on active duty. The demographics are younger on AD vs the guard, but my experience showed that they matched up pretty evenly on the dirtbag to pull-your-weight ratio.

There was plenty of this kind of "regaf" hate to go around- some of it was justified, and some of it fostered the rift between the two commands. It may have won the hearts of a couple disgruntled regaf recruits, if that's who you're targeting. When you make over the top statements statements like the Taliban quote above, what kind of message does that send?

Edited by sqwatch
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"One" speaks only in the third person, which makes me believe you're too big a "game of thrones" fan, hammered, or reeling from liquid touching on a sore subject.

No one but you called retirees quitters but you.

Or one could simply disagree with the position and points made in the referenced post.

Much like I do with this one. The reference to a crappy show on a cable channel that I don't pay for, much less watch, seemed to not be relevant.

One can write in an older, more formal style freely. Not my problem if you don't like it.

So perhaps you, or even you as noted above, can differentiate between "quitters." The post I disliked did not.

Blanket statements draw blanket condemnation.

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I've been in both, pluses and minuses to both. A lot stronger "band of brothers" in active duty, miss it a bit, see it on squadron TDYs sometimes. There is more opportunity in the ANG to venture outside the military but still stick around, more family time, more leaving the job at home. There is queep, just like AD, so don't think you are leaving that. Sqwatch had it right from the AD standpoint. As for flying, I think the ANG is mostly better, more flying and continuity, I average more than 10 a month in a Viper unit. However, the silverbacks can drag you down.

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Chim,

There have been many recent leadership failures (AFPC, AFGSC, Lackland, etc) but there are plenty of examples of good leadership and great leaders. It is too bad you haven't been around any.

Maj Gen Greg Lengyl, Commandant of Cadets. MH-53 pilot brought common sense, warfighter focus and empowered leadership to AFA

Gen Robin Rand AETC. One of the finest, most selfless, professional, tactically savvy leaders in our AF. Led the 332 AEW in Iraq 2006-2007.

Gen Hostage, ACC. Incredible combat leader, one of the best COMACCs.

Maj Gen (sel) Pete Gersten. Transformed RPA lethality at Creech and on ACC staff at Langley

Gen Paul Selva, TRANSCOM. Selfless, honest, intelligent MAF leader.

Brig Gen (sel) Rick Rupp, McConnell Wing Commander. Led by putting Airmen first, awarded O'Malley Award in '13

Maj Gen Jeff Harrigian, CENTCOM DJ3, aggressive, creative Airman leading in a very Army centric command.

Lt Gen John Hesterman, AFCENT/CFACC. Ready and willing to use airpower to bring any nation to their knees. A great leader doing a tremendous job in CC.

CMSgt Colon-Lopez, AFCENT/CCC, combat hardened PJ, no-nonsense enlisted leader. Would make a great CMSAF.

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Almost all my Sq/CCs so far have been good to great leaders/people. It gets hard once you leave the local level to understand why leadership acts the way it does but I don't think it's fair to assume they're just a bunch of clowns. There is a certain amount of "company man" that comes with flag leadership, understandably, but ultimately, like politics, all leadership is local for me.

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Never been an exec, but I did actually approach the Wg/CC once and asked him about the issues with the club. I went up to him, beer in hand, and struck up a conversation and it turns out, he actually had a different perspective from me and the rest of the line-swine squadron pilots who kept chanting for leadership to simply bootstrap the entire thing and just "make it not suck."

Turns out, there's a budget, he explained. The quality of food and service shrinks with the budget, and it drives a downward spiral that's difficult to recover from. People stop going, membership drops. The budget gets cut more, membership dues get raised. More people stop going. It's like any other business. Most of it is tied directly to the budget, he said. A lot of it is tied to the leadership, which includes the MSG/CC, FSS/CC, and others. Ever bother to talk to those guys?

A lot of it is tied to the culture of the base, command, or even AF at the time, which he admitted was a tough challenge.

Was just reading this thread and came across the discussion about clubs. Here at Cannon, it's a mixed-rank club. Nobody hangs there unless it's for a function of some sort. I've had fun there but it's always for a function. I've never really gotten to experience the fun that used to happen at an AF O Club. But, I did get to experience it at NAS Pensacola! That O Club was awesome. It typically closed whenever the last folks left or when the barteder kicked us out because she wanted to go out and get drunk too! Lots of students...Navy pilots & NFOs and AF CSOs. Some of our instructors would go there too (not as frequent as the students but they would make their appearances). Also, every so often, the AF would have a pint night there just because we like to drink. $10 gets you a glass and 2 beers.

When I was there, the AF folks would typically close out the bar and we would take over the pool table to play games of crud. The Navy dudes would have their flight suit Friday most Fridays (and lots of AF people drank on their tab lol), we had our drop nights there (mine was in one of our hangars because the O Club was booked!) and in general many folks just went to go and drink and have a good time with friends. I highly doubt this particular club is having financial issues. Somehow, it works. Also, the bar area just looks like somewhere I would like to go drink. It's not super fancy and there's various squadron stickers all over the mirrors on the bar back. There's spots where people can hang their custom mugs and they can leave these mugs there (until they PCS I guess). Along one of the walls there's a strip of velcro with all of the patches from all the flights who have graduated, for both branches. The food is also decent. Not the best ever but certain things were pretty good. I miss that place. Yeah, definitely is not what is wrong with the AF...we need more places like this ;)

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Here at Cannon, it's a mixed-rank club.

But, I did get to experience it at NAS Pensacola! That O Club was awesome. Lots of students

we had our drop nights there (mine was in one of our hangars because the O Club was booked!)

All clubs (maybe not 100%, but nearly) are mixed rank now bc of $$ and lack of membership.

The O Club at PCola is not what the past AF O Clubs were at all...and the only reason tons of studs go there is because they can drink and walk across the street to on base housing.

The drop nights are required to be at the O Club (or at least they used to be), unless they have sh1tty planning (shocker, it happens all the time there) and must move elsewhere...drop nights don't happen there because of how "awesome" it is

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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All clubs (maybe not 100%, but nearly) are mixed rank now bc of $$ and lack of membership.

The O Club at PCola is not what the past AF O Clubs were at all...and the only reason tons of studs go there is because they can drink and walk across the street to on base housing.

The drop nights are required to be at the O Club (or at least they used to be), unless they have sh1tty planning (shocker, it happens all the time there) and must move elsewhere...drop nights don't happen there because of how "awesome" it is

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PCola had an awesome O'club. Students, instructors, vets who would regale you with stories of low-level ingresses into downtown Hanoi...It was a great place. If more clubs were like the one at PCola, then we might not have to listen to our senior leaders bitch about club membership all the time.

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The Minot club is notionally mixed, but the only enlisted that show on Friday nights are a couple of CMSgts that hang out on their own side of the room. The two flying squadrons generally make a good push after Roll Call—mine moreso than our sister squadron, because frankly our wives are more fun than theirs. We each have our own table, and the bartender makes no objections when we do shots on the table and throw our shot glasses into the ceiling tiles. We tip her good and she treats us well. It's what I always imagined club life used to be like—minus the stripper poles. I look forward to moving somewhere warmer someday, but I will miss the Minot club. Remoteness has its perks for club economics.

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Lt Gen John Hesterman, AFCENT/CFACC. Ready and willing to use airpower to bring any nation to their knees. A great leader doing a tremendous job in CC.

Have worked for him twice -- one of my "I'd fly into hell on his wing" leaders. I hope he goes far.

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I stand corrected Liquid. I know there are plenty of good leaders out there, I just never seem to run into many. I may be jaded since most of my knowledge of flag officers comes from run ins with the previous AMC vice. I know there are good dudes who want to stay in and right the ship

Edited by chim richalds
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  • 2 weeks later...

Booze of any kind is now banned in the AZANG with limited exceptions on any facility. Wow.

I can think of at least 3 other states that have an alcohol ban on National Guard facilities. We've had this rule for years now...debriefs suffer!

Edit: This doesn't necessarily belong in the AF sucks thread, as there is a common theme of when these rules were imposed (not sure about he AZANG)...an Army officer running the show (ie...TAG).

Edited by SocialD
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I think the odds are unfortunately pretty high that most, if not all AF bases will eventually end up dry, if not worse. I miss the good old days when taking away crew booze was a legitimate cause for full blown mutiny. It's like taking away your child's binky, you just don't do shit like that.

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