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What's wrong with the Air Force?


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Standing at attention for 45 minutes listening to a scripted speech is stupid.

On the passing out in formation ... locked knees will get you everytime. If it was intentional, I recall Ancient Romans were forced to attend Emperor Nero's musical recitals and plays. They were so bad, people faked heart attacks or going into labor so they would have an excuse to leave.

In the other service, we had a SgtMaj Post & Relief and retirement ceremony rolled into one lovely, cloudless August afternoon. On the flightline. In Dress Blue Deltas. With web belts, magazine pouches, canteens (empty), and rifles. The audience seating and the podium were in the afternoon shade of the hangar; the formations were in the sun.

The outgoing/retiring SgtMaj was infamous for being long-winded. At about the 30min mark, we heard a sickening crack/thump and a rifle falling to the ground, and a half-dozen people go "Holy shit!". A Corporal passed out; as he was falling his face caught the front sight base of the rifle. Knocked one front tooth completely out, broke the other one almost flush with the gumline, broke an additional tooth, and tore his upper lip open badly. That ignorant longwinded motherfucker continued to ramble on about how much of an honor it was to take care of "his Marines" for 27 years while the corpsman tried to stop the bleeding, while the ambulance rolled onto the flightline with the siren blaring, while they loaded the Cpl into the ambulance, and while they drove off the flightline with the siren blaring again. About 15 minutes after the ambulance left, he finally shut the fuck up. The incoming SgtMaj was clearly uncomfortable with the situation; he spoke for about a minute and closed with "Let's get this over with, before we hurt someone else."

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Truth to this?

8fcsYa1l.jpg

Awesome! Just in time for my arrival next week for my remote to Osan! I am especially thankful for the 2200 curfew, as forcing me to be in my room at night is extremely helpful in changing my sleep patterns to accommodate the 15 hour time difference.

I also look forward to goal development planning, more AT/FP, SAPR and alcohol briefings as mandated by 7AF/CC during in-processing.

But seriously, two questions:

1. How on earth do they expect to enforce this? Or is it mainly used as justification to throw the book at someone who has an alcohol related incidentI?

2. Is it "all military members" as the sign above states or is this an AF specific policy as reported in the article linked earlier in this thread? It's complete BS if this is AF only. And it seems that TDY personnel on the ROK are exempt from this policy. WTFO?

-9-

Edited by Nineline
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Per JQ Public on facebook:

I'd love to hear the JAG explain the "valid military necessity" behind this order. Things like this reinforce the idea that the Air Force is becoming little more than a playground for people who have excessive power and no idea how to wield it responsibly. Of course, when you have hierarchy, a strict loyalty culture, and a penchant for career-ending crackbacks underscoring every order given, who's to say an order is misguided? No one.

As is always the case with idiotic bullshit like this, the targets of the rule will just break it anyway (or get pie-eyed and walk through downtown Seoul in a jock strap and a sailor hat on Day 31), while everyone else didn't need to be told in the first place.

-9-

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Well.. looks like I'll volunteer for Turkey instead.

Holy balls that's awful. Nothing you want to do more after getting the the jailbird rotator than sit through inprocessing and all those briefing wacked out of your brain.

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Korea without alcohol is ######ing scary. All of the USAF ROK was GO-1 a weekend or so ago. Good thing the Army didnt care. Haha.

Edited by KiowaDriver
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I separate in 88 days. Though I'm deployed right now, I'm trying to accomplish online preseparation counseling so I can focus on moving my family when I get back. Low and behold, the preseparation counseling I am REQUIRED to accomplish is on the Army Knowlege Online site. I have to accomplish this counseling, which by the way, doesn't work on AFCENT computers because of Comm restrictions. So, now I have to call a commercial number from a deployed location to talk to a civilian to work into their schedule to complete their requirements that don't help me one dam^ bit. THIS is why I'm getting out. I can't even separate withough completing some bull$hit requirement that has every road block in place imaginable that does nothing but waste my time.

There's the "Preseparation counseling form" that is supposed to be filled out and ended up in my AFPC records, but when I separated no one checked the rest of the forms. The folks at AFRC said that you were required to outprocess through them, but MPF didn't give a s**t. I don't think they even looked for the preseparation counseling form. What are they going to do, recall you to AD?

Out of the weeklong TAP class about 30-45 minutes was useful, like the gouge on getting free LinkedIn Premium (you laugh, got 2 job offers that way, 1 of which I took...). The rest of the time I spent sitting in the back, surfing the net, and talking with the recruiters I'd been talking with before I went to TAP. And they were talking about how they were "getting" to add a 1-2 day "How to use the GI Bill" session because people kept jacking it up.

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Wow...what exactly is the alcohol ban and curfew supposed to accomplish. Why don't they just make a note saying "No DUIs allowed during your 24 month stay here in Korea." Better yet, why don't they eliminate sexual assault by posting a sign that says "No sexual assaults allowed while you are stationed in Korea." Are they expecting this to prevent an ARI (or whatever they call it these days)

Seriously...the intent is lost in the stupidity. Ok...looks like they might prevent the FNG from getting a DUI after 2200 his/her first 30 days in theater. How do you stop it the next 23 months?? Focus....focus....

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Saw this on JQ Public's page. Picture and associated comment sum up what is wrong with the Air Force. I also think the movie Idiocracy sums up the AF well. Big Blue is one giant self-licking ice cream cone.

post-16322-0-36302500-1404489000_thumb.p

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There's the "Preseparation counseling form" that is supposed to be filled out and ended up in my AFPC records, but when I separated no one checked the rest of the forms. The folks at AFRC said that you were required to outprocess through them, but MPF didn't give a s**t. I don't think they even looked for the preseparation counseling form. What are they going to do, recall you to AD?

Out of the weeklong TAP class about 30-45 minutes was useful, like the gouge on getting free LinkedIn Premium (you laugh, got 2 job offers that way, 1 of which I took...). The rest of the time I spent sitting in the back, surfing the net, and talking with the recruiters I'd been talking with before I went to TAP. And they were talking about how they were "getting" to add a 1-2 day "How to use the GI Bill" session because people kept jacking it up.

I figured that's the way TAP would be. Out of touch government civilians *teaching* me how to get a job. As it is now, I'm going to have to sacrifice post deployment reconstitution or lose leave to attend TAP.

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Curfew is also 10 PM for the first 30 days. What do they think people are going to do on day 31?

I had to take a crew of 35 (aircrew & Mx) to the AOR a couple months ago. My Sq leadership was scarred of having (another) alcohol incident on the road, so they instituted a new definition of the bottle-to-throttle rule: No consuming alcohol within 12 hours of ALERT. And they applied this to everyone on the trip, Mx included.

Fast forward through a 10 hour trip to St John's......Rolling back down to the hotel lobby 6.9 minutes after checking in, what do you think greeted me at the bar? 30 dudes pounding beer & whiskey like it was their job, on empty stomachs, staring at their watches, getting pissed as a fart.

Same situation I think. People don't realize that arbitrarily changing the rules doesn't actually address the problem.

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I'm deployed and busy. I still check the forum to see what's new. I'm tired of reading posts from whiners who continue to bitch and moan about not being required to get an AAD until Col. Drama queens. I can't stand being around people who complain about stupid things and this forum is full of them. Hard to read sometimes, but there are enough witty insights to make it worth it.

This Korea alcohol thing is over the top. I think it is an unlawful order. Good order and discipline my ass. Some commanders have lost their minds with this "treat people like children" mentality of leadership. JQP's Camp Air Force article is spot on. I recommend you read it and apply it to your leadership style.

To those in this forum that aren't bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybabies, thank you for serving in the greatest AF this world has ever seen. It is a bloated bureaucracy (DMV with guns), with more chickenshit senior leaders and commanders and more stupid rules than it should have. But our Air Force kicks ass all over the world, enabling our nation to do the things it should be doing, killing those who need to be killed, and protecting those who need to be protected. We need competent, courageous and creative leaders at all levels, including every one of our officers. Quit your complaining and start leading. Or just quietly separate and go get that dream job where there are no stupid rules and bad leaders, so the rest of us can get to it.

edited to remove some profanity caused by my bad mood

Edited by Liquid
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This Korea alcohol thing is over the top bullshit. I think it is an unlawful order. Good order and discipline my ass. Some commanders have lost their f*ing minds with this "treat people like children" mentality of leadership. JQP's Camp Air Force article is spot on. I recommend you read it and apply it to your leadership style.

This! It's reassuring to see a senior leaders viewpoint that jives with common sense. Hit me up if you find yourself passing through Osan... The first round is on me. (Though, as long as it's not within the next 30 days of course.)

-9-

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I figured that's the way TAP would be. Out of touch government civilians *teaching* me how to get a job. As it is now, I'm going to have to sacrifice post deployment reconstitution or lose leave to attend TAP.

The funniest part was that the folks helping me transition to a successful career outside the military were ORFs (old retired farts) who managed to land the prestigious civilian job of teaching TAP at Cannon AFB, NM.

Wow...with that shining example how could I not succeed?

Here's my (partial) solution: before TAP starts you do a 2-minute sit down with every person. If your two minute "what's your life plan" pitch passes a reasonableness test, you get the 2-hour gentleman's course where a VA rep will collect your claims paperwork and someone will discuss the finer points of the GI bill, gives you the free LinkedIn gouge, etc. and sends you on your merry way.

About 1/3 of the class could have been excused on day 1 and the folks working there could have spend more one-on-one time on the dude who's "plan" was to become a hippie.

Edited by nsplayr
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To those in this forum that aren't bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybabies, thank you for serving in the greatest AF this world has ever seen. It is a bloated bureaucracy (DMV with guns), with more chickenshit senior leaders and commanders and more stupid rules than it should have. But our Air Force kicks ass all over the world, enabling our nation to do the things it should be doing, killing those who need to be killed, and protecting those who need to be protected. We need competent, courageous and creative leaders at all levels, including every one of our officers. Quit your complaining and start leading. Or just quietly separate and go get that dream job where there are no stupid rules and bad leaders, so the rest of us can get to it.

I wouldn't necessarily equate rational criticism of problems and stupidity to automatically equal one being a "bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybaby", anymore than I'd label your or other ways of thinking to be kool aid drinking rah-rah lemming-speak. Sure, there are the actual crybabies, and sure there are the kool-aid brainless types; but I think overall both of the more moderate types of people on each side actually solve issues and come up with solutions for what is an AF that definitely isn't without problems (a good number of, in fact), even with the good things it has and offers.

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I wouldn't necessarily equate rational criticism of problems and stupidity to automatically equal one being a "bitter, selfish, disillusioned crybaby", anymore than I'd label your or other ways of thinking to be kool aid drinking rah-rah lemming-speak. Sure, there are the actual crybabies, and sure there are the kool-aid brainless types; but I think overall both of the more moderate types of people on each side actually solve issues and come up with solutions for what is an AF that definitely isn't without problems (a good number of, in fact), even with the good things it has and offers.

I stopped paying attention to Liquid's quitter-hate a while ago. I can only imagine the conniption he'd have regarding an expanding Air Force Reserve structure (per the congressional report 6 months ago) in the present active duty drawdown. You know, that organization of selfish quitters who vote with their feet every day with disgusting values such as homesteading, rejection of qweep, unapologetic preference of flying over any other duty as a prerequisite for deciding to show up at all, getting a second paycheck which is less important than their civilian one, and lastly, a community of politically incorrect brotherhood built upon relative lack of turnover, which makes active duty look like a bunch of fucking 3-level equivalent JCPenney cashiers on their second week on the job.

Yeah buddy, guys like him probably couldn't tell a Reservist from the Taliban judging by the traits he values. The people he decries as the problem are literally the preponderance of my recruits. And here's the sweet irony: Active Duty turns around and puts us in positions of flying support under the premise of higher aggregate experience retention we bring to the table.

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... which makes active duty look like a bunch of fucking 3-level equivalent JCPenney cashiers on their second week on the job.

Pretty bold statement. I've worked with many reservists who are stuck in a 3-1 that is a decade old and couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag. I've also worked with reservists who only fly the minimum BMC rates and can still crush the new patch straight from WIC. Making a blanket statement about either side of the force is absurd.

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Quit your complaining and start leading.

One might state the obvious with a "you first."

But one is retired and thus a "quitter" because the giveash1t meter pegged simultaneously with the OLC to the tilting at windmills award.

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