What's wrong with the Air Force?

[zach braff]

I dropped out of CCAF as an Airmen when the Ed Center told me they would only transfer 2.33 credits from all my pre-USAF college classes. Since I'd gone to school for a year in Washington State, which at the time had trimesters instead of semesters, they wouldn't give a full transfer. Where the hell was I going to find .67 credits anywhere?

When I went ROTC, go figure - my 4 year school transferred everything no problems. I now have a bachelors and (worthless box-checking) masters but still probably would not qualify for a CCAF.

zb

[HercDude]

Got this dozy in the inbox today:

Subject: 18 AF Focus Group Participant Call

Execs,

SUSPENSE: ASAP

<words>

,the tasker is looking for individuals to participate in focus groups via DCO which will take place somewhere between 24 Apr 2 May. These DCOs will last one hour max. This is a great opportunity for your people.

I need one person from each of the following categories:

Amn

NCO

SNCO

CGO

FGO

GS

for each nom I need the following:

Last 3 OPR/EPRs

SURF

PT score

If you can get me names and PT scores I can pull the OPR/EPR and SURF.

<more words>

Please get me any names you have and thank you for your help.

v/r

-An Exec

So, in order to participate in a DCO focus group - sitting behind a pc screen, picking boogers and Cheetos - you have to submit your PT scores and last 3 OPRs. I'd assume the point of such an event was for the 18th AF/CC to get some tactical level opinions from his troops - maybe see some small portion of the world through the eyes of those suffering through it, and not a stoplight chart & some PhD level spreadsheet. Instead the Wing has to nominate people then vet them based on strats and PT scores. Absurd.

[Butters]

Heard it yesterday at a mass awards/promotion ceremony.

Jesus Christ, that is fucked up. How did you deal with it? Was anyone Tebowing?

[chim richalds]

whats funny is that i just sat on a court martial and no pt scores were required. I guess making a decision on whether a guy did time was less important than some "great opportunity" that management has for me.

[BitteEinBit]

PT test scores (as long as you pass) and OPRs don't seem to matter for 365 or other deployment opportunities either. Weird.

[Champ Kind]

We passed the point of "full retard" on PT scores long ago.

If you know anything about the 18 AF/CC (oops, I mean future AMC/CC), this shouldn't be a surprise.

[Chuck17]

We passed the point of "full retard" on PT scores long ago.

If you know anything about the 18 AF/CC (oops, I mean future AMC/CC), this shouldn't be a surprise.

Champ, I agree with your sentiment, and far be it from me to defend the mgmt at 18AF, but I am 90% sure this is a boy-wonder wing commander requirement, and not coming down from on high...

Think the wing cc is gonna roll in just anyone to sit for a spell with HIS boss and possibly make him look a fool? No. Hence the screen. And the subsequent garbage in - garbage out dynamic of the whole thing. This is a wing commander problem, not at 18AF problem. Knowing the current command climate, this should surprise no one.

Now, if the 18AF expects honest feedback from the general population he has to go to the source, not the sources supervisors or chain of command. (Get the hooks out of your ass, do some battlefield circulation and pull aside a random group of captains - ala Gen Welsh). The fact that DCO is being used to touch as many people from afar as possible (like the new money saving version of "High Flight") should tell you how "important" this is to leadership - as in, it ain't. It's all show. It briefs well.

Take note fellas... One day you are going to be leading people. Decide now what your style and legacy will be, and find good and bad examples to pull from.

Just remember, perception is reality.

Chuck

Edit: follow up - also take note of how this "tasker" was pushed down - via the exec chains, circumventing the squadron commanders authority, though they would ultimately be able to nominate dudes up.

No decentralized execution. No empowerment. No trust.

No "send me your three strongest dudes to come learn a thing or two about leadership and work in some focus groups for a few days." No, instead we get "send up names, OPRs and PT scores so we can screen them and then the wing commander will decide who is going to participate."

If the wing is this far in your chili, maybe you don't need squadron commanders, let alone a Group commanders... Small example, but I think it says a lot.

Cheers

Edited April 12, 2014 by Chuck17

[Helo Kitty]

Our base has a 'SAPR Day' coming up May and the base SAPR (via Wg/CC) required every unit to ID enough 'instructors' for a 1:25 (instructor:student) ratio.. these instructors have to attend a mandatory 8-hour training class. All Airmen have to attend the down day horseshit and if we're on leave/TDY we have to 'make it up'. Its an absolutely unbelievable waste of time, manpower and resources..

/endrant

[uhhello]

Our base has a 'SAPR Day' coming up May and the base SAPR (via Wg/CC) required every unit to ID enough 'instructors' for a 1:25 (instructor:student) ratio.. these instructors have to attend a mandatory 8-hour training class. All Airmen have to attend the down day horseshit and if we're on leave/TDY we have to 'make it up'. Its an absolutely unbelievable waste of time, manpower and resources..

/endrant

You're not alone.

[Azimuth]

You're not alone.

2

We have an IP/Patch who is the Wing SAPR POC.

[Chuck17]

That's a good use for a patch, hadn't heard that one before...

I've heard of patches getting ejected from their communities, but that seems like a waste.

Chuck

Edit: autocorrect

Edited April 14, 2014 by Chuck17

[panchbarnes]

Our base has a 'SAPR Day' coming up May and the base SAPR (via Wg/CC) required every unit to ID enough 'instructors' for a 1:25 (instructor:student) ratio.. these instructors have to attend a mandatory 8-hour training class. All Airmen have to attend the down day horseshit and if we're on leave/TDY we have to 'make it up'. Its an absolutely unbelievable waste of time, manpower and resources..

/endrant

With the revised OPR/EPR format, SAPR is the new "Christmas Party/AFAF/CFC/EXEC" duty.

"#1 of 30 SAPR instructors; armed 200 human wpn sys w/ sexual countermeasures--200 sexual assaults thwarted!"

I wonder if one needs "excellent" PT score and OPRs strats to be considered for SAPR instructor.

Edited: Upgraded action verb in bullet.

Edited April 14, 2014 by PanchBarnes

[pawnman]

That's a good use for a patch, hadn't heard that one before...

I've heard of patches getting ejected from their communities, but that seems like a waste.

Chuck

Edit: autocorrect

More, or less of a waste than making them the exec.

[Mustache Sally]

Yeah, I was tapped (phrasing) for this instructor duty and am pretty pissed about it. I talked to the other female instructor in my sqdn and we both agree that when it is time to "train" the squadron not to rape people, we are going to take this approach: give people good information about the resources at his/her disposal in the event that they become a victim (or perhaps supervise a victim), and make it succinct so that people can get the info and move on with their day. It will absolutely NOT be the usual anti-male, all-guys-in-the-military-are-rapists fare that we've been subjected to for years. At our base, it sounds like the SAPR chick will give us the training and then we the schmucks in the sqdn can tailor it as we see fit. We shall see. I know it is difficult to find a ray of sunshine in this joke of a program, but taking this approach (potentially helping people by giving them good info) rather than looking at it for what it really is (an expensive, flashy, politically correct band-aid) makes me feel a little bit less pissed off about the insane amount of time I'm going to waste over this.

[Chuck17]

More, or less of a waste than making them the exec.

Depends... I get why commanders make patches their exec, but it has more to do with the commanders lack of confidence in the general crew force, and desire to push those dudes out front, than anything else. Here's a dude who wears a patch that (arguably) states there is a better than average chance they won't screw something up when put in charge of it. It's the same for the SAPR program. I truly understand the logic - it's hot button right now.

And I think it is a slap in the face to everyone who doesn't get the same opportunity.

But hey if you want to get your balls kicked in for six months straight and then walk away from everything you've learned in order to get upwardly mobile, more power to ya. It's better to rule in hell than serve in heaven, for some....

Just don't come begging when I'm building the plan or making up the lineup cards for night one, and your name is conspicuously absent.

Chuck

Edited April 15, 2014 by Chuck17

[ARAMP1]

PT test scores (as long as you pass) and OPRs don't seem to matter for 365 or other deployment opportunities either. Weird.

I have an IA coming up and I need to take my PT test to outprocess, which makes me wonder if I did fail it, would I still get deployed? My guess is probably, and I'm sure there'd still be some mandatory fun when I got to Kandahar. Of course I'm going to take it and pass before I deploy since my only real motivation is not to be hassled.

[Bode]

Chuck I think you are spot-on with the patch movement. This is just another problem with the Air Force. Let's send them TDY to become "tacticians" in their airframes and fly their asses off for six months but when they get back we put them in positions where they don't fly much and are stuck being paper pushers, briefing writers, wing DSs and the such. To me it's retarded. Just my two worthless sense.

Then again I thing it's ridiculous first assignment guys are PCSing just after their AC upgrade on the C17 side because we need to "show career progression". What a waste of money IMO.

[guineapigfury]

I have an IA coming up and I need to take my PT test to outprocess, which makes me wonder if I did fail it, would I still get deployed? My guess is probably, and I'm sure there'd still be some mandatory fun when I got to Kandahar. Of course I'm going to take it and pass before I deploy since my only real motivation is not to be hassled.

The rule is you have to be current, not passing. What your wing would choose to do, I do not know. I've seen people sent anyways, and deployments turned off at the last minute leaving the guy already downrange involuntarily extended.

[Azimuth]

Chuck I think you are spot-on with the patch movement. This is just another problem with the Air Force. Let's send them TDY to become "tacticians" in their airframes and fly their asses off for six months but when they get back we put them in positions where they don't fly much and are stuck being paper pushers, briefing writers, wing DSs and the such. To me it's retarded. Just my two worthless sense.

Then again I thing it's ridiculous first assignment guys are PCSing just after their AC upgrade on the C17 side because we need to "show career progression". What a waste of money IMO.

I knew a Sq/CC who PCS'd all of his O's right at three years, regardless if they upgraded to AC/IP or not.

[Bode]

And that is ridiculous. It doesn't help that for OS tours it's a three year standard. Imagine the savings if we extended that to four years. I found a document a while back the estimates the average PCS costs in the neighborhood of 30K. Beyond the money add in the usefulness of an aircrew member in that final year. Talk about improving experience levels throughout the different communities.

[hispeed7721]

Our base has a 'SAPR Day' coming up

I'm willing to bet it's not as ridiculous as the "SAPR obstacle course" we recently had during SAPR/Wingman day. I could barely contain my excitement.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ThreeHoler]

And that is ridiculous. It doesn't help that for OS tours it's a three year standard. Imagine the savings if we extended that to four years. I found a document a while back the estimates the average PCS costs in the neighborhood of 30K. Beyond the money add in the usefulness of an aircrew member in that final year. Talk about improving experience levels throughout the different communities.

We did that already...and went back to a 3-year cycle.

Nothing new under the sun.

[17D_guy]

Our base has a 'SAPR Day' coming up May and the base SAPR (via Wg/CC) required every unit to ID enough 'instructors' for a 1:25 (instructor:student) ratio.. these instructors have to attend a mandatory 8-hour training class. All Airmen have to attend the down day horseshit and if we're on leave/TDY we have to 'make it up'. Its an absolutely unbelievable waste of time, manpower and resources..

/endrant

We get that too, but now we also get an additional hour a quarter for resiliency. Which has classes you have to sign up for, and if you're late you get a nasty gram and turned away. Oh.. and they're looking for more trainers as well.

Had a suicide attempt on base this past weekend and the Wing CC was all, "I don't understand why people would do that."

Really dude.. get in touch.

[Bode]

Nope there never is and it makes sense so we will probably continue to piss away money.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Lstcause257

[BB Stacker]

The rule is you have to be current, not passing. What your wing would choose to do, I do not know. I've seen people sent anyways, and deployments turned off at the last minute leaving the guy already downrange involuntarily extended.

Not the case anymore. AFCENT just changed up the rules, now you must have a passing PT test on top in order to deploy to their AOR, period. Last month we had someone go short notice to lovely KAF because someone else failed their test right before they were supposed to deploy.

Yes, I too see absolutely nothing wrong with this plan or any way it might be abused.