Guard/Reserve vs Active Duty

[scoobs]

I talked to quite a few AD guys and they all said they would have gone to the reserves over AD.Can any AD guys tell me if you would have gone that route instead.Is the reserves that much better?Thanks

[Guest CAVOK]

As a former AD, traditional Reservist, I can tell you that the grass is so much greener on this side of the fence.

Yes, it is definitely that much better.

No true "staff" jobs.

Less paperwork--more flying.

Flexible scheduling.

Close-knit unit.

Very selectively manned.

The list goes on & on.

CAVOK

[C17Driver]

Scoobs,

I'm AD and wouldn't change a thing. Even after almost three years on AD, I still have no desire to cross over to the other side. In fact, my desire to stay on AD has increased over the last couple years!

[scoobs]

Thanks I guess it just depends on the person.It seems like the C-17 reserve units are just as busy as AD.

[Guest purplecaddis]

Originally posted by scoobs:

Thanks I guess it just depends on the person.

You are correct. It is what YOU want to do with your life. I was never on AD, other than activation so I can not speak from my expierence.

I do know this though, I have met very few people who have wished they went AD instead of the ARC.

[Guest tentoad]

I too have done both AD and ARC. Done the airline thing and am on my second and final time as an ART- gonna go the distance.

I loved AD until the staff work started. The fluff combined with the deployments was a real drag.

A good friend of mine is the Mobility AFPC career dude. Yes, he is the father of the new bonus program. We discuss this stuff all the time.

Few folks have ever left AD for the pay, it has always been about control. Being able to say "No" and trusting your unit while your deployed are the 2 biggest perks.

In addition, the pay is better in the AD than the ARC- unless you have never been furloughed as an airline guy.

AD is good in that you are immune to crazy econony stuff and you enjoy a lot more stability.

The next few years will see more of an alignment of the ARC to the AD. Deployments will be the norm, not the exception etc..

Either way you get to fly for a living, perhaps moreso in the ARC. It does beat having to work a real job.

I have enjoyed both immensely.

Tentoad

[Guest flyboyav8or]

I am currently waiting for the OTS 0503 board results to come out for pilot selection. I am 110% sure that I would prefer Active Duty but I am wondering if maybe I should start looking at National Guard or Reserve due to the possible low selection rates for AD. I would appreciate anyone's input on this matter as well as info regarding the application process for ANG and Reserve.

Are the pilot slots out there? Are they harder/easier to get than AD? Etc.

Thanks!

[UPT-hopeful]

Depends on what you want to fly... I'm working towards a fighters through ANG and it's pretty freakin' tough to get those slots. Probably easier to get an OTS slot that way. I don't know much about the heavy side of things in regards to ANG/AFRES

Dude, also no need to slam every topic with this post... We'll see it and get to it.

[ 18. February 2005, 13:02: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[Guest flyboyav8or]

I don't really care what I fly. I would prefer fighters but it doesn't really matter. Thanks for the info.

P.S. Sorry...wasn't sure which topic to put it under and I wanted to make sure it got read.

[hindsight2020]

If you don't care what airframe you get, and you're cool wit the active duty commitment, AD is Heaven for ya. It is definitively easier to plain get a slot thru active than ANG/reserves.

By the looks of your profile, you're basically in thru the OTS track, aside from manning issues (too many kids wanting to be Maverick this year as opposed to last year) I'd say relax, you're in, wait for the letter, wear a condom, oh and don't poke your eye out or something stupid like that.

I would expand on the reasons why active is a better way of obtaining a pilot slot than Guard (a favorite among those allergic to truth) but you answered that question yourself on the last reply. Good luck and happy flying

:cool:

[Guest Rainman A-10]

The choice for you is simple.

GO ACTIVE DUTY and don't look back.

[Guest AirGuardian]

Guard is more competitive normally and you'll enjoy active duty if you've never seen anything else. So he's right don't look back until training is complete and you earn those wings. Then you'll spend the rest of your time (commitment/moving/hat check/sir yes sir!!!) on AD looking back...

Good luck on whatever you do decide. It could be years before you land a Guard slot...

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Hopefully you can spend most of your time on active duty looking forward. Active duty is easy to enjoy if you have the right attitude.

I see a bunch of people on these boards trying to get a Guard pilot training slot. Most of them talk like the active duty is some kind of terrible deal and you'll have nothing but horrible experiences and you will be treated like crap the whole time.

I will continue to offer a contrary viewpoint (and risk some more negative votes on my "Member rating"). I am not trying to convince any old school guys to change their opinions about Active Duty. I am trying to offer a different viewpoint to some of the young guys out there trying to become pilots.

I never had an assignment I didn't like. I never got screwed. I was stationed overseas twice and I love both assignments. I got to fly fighters on deployments all over the world, something 90% of the young Guard fighter pilots never get to do. I absolutely loved deploying. It was hard to be away from my family but I knew my flying career would be over in the blink of an eye and flying jets was what I always wanted to do. Flying around the flagpole at the home drome has never been my idea of a good time. I have never understood the attitude people have about "having to deploy", I have always felt like that was my job as a MILITARY pilot and I have always wanted to be wherever the action was. Maybe it was always easy for me because I have never wanted to be am airline pilot. That is not common, I know.

An opportunity to spend some time in the Guard came to me out of the blue. I remember the struggle my whole family went through before we finally decided to accept the offer. It was a family based decision and it was by no means an overwhelmingly obvious choice to separate from active duty and go to an AGR position.

I have been lucky to be part of a great unit and have some wonderful experiences in the Guard. My wife and kids have been happy to stay in the same place for a few years. However, this is no where near the top of the list of places we have lived if you ask my family. Great place but nowhere near the top of the list in their opinion.

Some things about the Guard are, in fact, better than the active duty but it REALLY depends on the unit and most of those things are completely invisible to a young kid for the first 10 years out of pilot training. Many things on active duty are better than the Guard.

Serving your country as an officer in the Air Force is a great thing to do. Serving as a pilot is a REALLY fun thing to do and I say you need to go for whatever pilot slot you can get and consider yourself very, very lucky.

[Guest purplecaddis]

Rainman,

If you loved AD so much why did you leave? Not trying to be a sm@rt@$$ just wondering?

I can not speak to the fighter side for Guard/Reserve babies but I can on the airlift world. As a new LT co-pilot I flew more saw more and did more in and out of the aircraft than my active duty counter parts.

For a guy who is in the Guard you sure do not seem happy about it.

[Bergman]

Originally posted by Caddis:

For a guy who is in the Guard you sure do not seem happy about it.

Not to put words in Rainman's mouth, but as he mentioned, I believe he's just trying to give a different point of view. This board tends to be pretty skewed toward the "ANG is the greatest thing since night baseball" opinion, which may or may not be true. The grass isn't always greener on the ANG side, and I agree with Rainmain that sometimes that opinion needs to be shared as well. The more facts, opinions, and options new people have, the better and more informed their career decisions will be.

[Guest delta]

To any non-selects reading this post. If you want to fly for the Air Force then apply for AD, Reserves and the ANG. If you've spent much time on this military pilot forum, then I'm sure you have an idea now just how tough a pilot slot can be to receive. AD, Reserves, and ANG they're all different from what we can see as we read new posts day in and day out. Bottom line, get the slot whether it be full time or part time and thank your lucky stars above, the rest will take care of itself.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Caddis,

I'll try to answer for you. It is not a short answer so if you are easily bored (because it will probably be quite boring) or you do not like my opinion (which is fairly common around here based on replies I've received and my "2 star rating").

I am willing to answer because you seem to think I am not happy with my job in the Guard. That is wrong. I am in a fantastic unit and I have had some unbelieveable tactical flying experiences and incredible leadership opportunities since I joined the unit.

The Guard has a valuable place in the military but it is not the best or only place to fly airplanes. I would be happy to discuss my opinion of the role of the ARC some other time in another forum if you want but I'll try to answer your question first. Bottom line, I see the both the Active Duty AF and the ARC as part of the same USAF, I can't separate the two like some people do. I can see strengths and weaknesses in each and I am trying to share those opinons here.

I left the active duty because I thought it would be best for my family. It was not a snap decision, it took us 18 months before we actually decided to "quit" and go to the Guard. There were some people in my chain of command who supported my move and said I was still serving the Air Force. There were others, like my immediate commander, who said things like "you know, there is A RAT in 'sepARATe". We had moved a lot, more than most of our friends. I was looking for a way to settle my famliy down. We had a a big sheet of butcher block paper with a line down the middle hanging in our kitchen in Vegas with Active Duty on one half and ANG on the other. My whole family was able to write down reasons they thought we should do either one. I would do some research whenever a question came up.

I struggled with the decision and it ultimately became a leap of faith. It was hard to believe that I could continue on "active duty" for my last 4-5 years but never have to move again. I really didn't understand the whole AGR thing. I would never have even considered leaving if it were not for the AGR option, mainly because I understood very little about anything else and also because I had always planned to do (approx) 20 years and then move back to Minneapolis where both my wife and I are from. The unit I joined was very patient and persistant with me while I struggled with my decision and I am thankful for that. I had several friends in the unit who I had been stationed with on active duty. Bottom Line...I was lucky, a common trend in my USAF career.

I know I am very lucky. I have been exposed to a lot. I would've been happy if I had stayed on active duty and I have been happy in the Guard. I am lucky that I love what I do. I have had several offers to come back on active duty and some of them have been tempting. I am not a company man but I do believe very strongly about service and duty to my country. I have always spoken up when I believed in something and I haven't always been popular for going against the "Big Blue" party line. I believe in doing and saying the right thing for the right reason even if it is harder or doesn't serve my personal best interest. My "career" has never suffered because I was honest.

I am passing on my experience based opinions to the young guys and gals who seem to dominate these boards. I have noticed there are "experts" and "veterans" on these board who are either still trying to figure out a way to get to pilot training or have been selected but haven't even been fitted for an oxygen mask yet. They have some good words about their experiences but I must say, there are folks out there who have been there and done that who may be able to give a little broader view. I consider myself one of those folks and I beleive I have a duty to "mentor". I wish there had something like this forum when I was a kid. I was lucky to have an appointment to the USAFA and an AFROTC scholarship with a pilot slot (I never even talked to anyone in the Guard because I wanted to go active duty and I thought you had to be related to someone in the unit) but I would've loved to have the opportunity to "talk" to some crusty old heads and get advice. I didn't have any idea what I was doing. I knew that I wanted to be a pilot and I thought good grades and football were going to help me get there but that is all I knew. It all worked out but when I look back I can really see how naive I was. It is better to be lucky than good.

I hope that answers your question.

[Guest delta]

Rainman-A10,

Just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to expound on a lot of these issues that us young pups keep throwing out each day.

I admit, as a non-prior and someone who knows very very little about what lies ahead of me in my military career; it's nice to have veteran guys like yourself, Air Guardian, Toro, Clearedhot, Baseops.net, Cavok, Bergman, ENJJPT IP, C-21 Pilot, Herkbum and many more that I'll forget to mention, adding your KNOWLEDGE and EXPERIENCE to this forum. You're right, a lot of us on these boards don't have slots and there's some of us that do. Most of us that haven't been there probably don't know what the hell we're talking about half the time (at least myself) but we'd like to think we do. Giving and receiving eachothers opinions helps to relieve a lot of emotion that plays into the UPT selection process, atleast for me anyway. However, it's nice to have guys like who I mentioned above come in and staighten us out. I think I could easily say on behalf of all of us that have not been to UPT, that any words of advice, encouragement, knowledge and so on doesn't ever go UNNOTICED. Anyway, I admit that I was one of the readers that recoiled a little at your first few posts. As a guard fighter select, I was a little bummed at the thought that I couldn't become a "real fighter guy" because of being a "guard baby" and not being active duty, but hey I feel damn lucky and honored to even have the slot and I'll do everything I can to make the most out of it. Anyway, thanks again for all the insight coming from you the veteran hawg driver to a future hawg driver. By the way, congrats, you're up to a three star rating now.

[Guest Youngnita]

Rain,

I appreciate your response and posts. I really respect the fact that you view AD and ARC as one AF, because we are. Alot of people don't and I think that's ashame. As you said it is really about weighing out what works for the individual and their personal goals.

I think your ratings will probably go up, however, I like the fact that it doesn't matter to you. ;)

[Guest purplecaddis]

Rainman-

I would guess you and I entered the AF family at about the same time in the late 80s. We chose 2 different paths, the ones WE thought were best for US.

I think the important part is that each individual has to do what he/she thinks is best for themselves. For some that is a time on AD for others it is in the ARC, to each their own.

Differing opinions here are whats important to educate those "veterens" and "super hereos" who may be newer to the AF.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Listen, I have nothing against anyone. I base my opinions on a person's performance and I try to tell the truth as I see it. I won't say anything if I don't think I'm right but that doesn't mean I actually am right.

Yeah, I was lucky enough to be part of the early 80s Iron Ass Reagan Baby crowd. That was back when there was money for everything, a clearly defined enemy, it was cool to rage around low all over Europe and we didn't even bother drawing threat rings on the map, let alone call something a "Super Mez". 30 Seconds of exposure above 300 feet per sortie was all you got, anything more and you would be walking home...if you were lucky. Maverick and Gun only...chop-chop Ivan's comin'!

Now we huck LGBs from 20K and JDAMs from 30K. Luckily, Hog guys still have a viable weapon requiring them to dive at the ground like men, pull the trigger and watch the target blow up in front of them...can't strafe anyone from a 20K straight and level pass, thank God.

One last time, I have nothing against "Guard Babies". It is very difficult to get the experience you need to be well rounded if you are stuck flying around the same flagpole, going to the exact same ranges at the exact same range time your entire flying career. It can be done but you need good mentorship and you need to be self motivated. Most of the traditional guardsmen have busy lives and are in and out while most of the full timers are so swamped they don't have a spare "couple of hours a week" to spend on a young guy. I'm not saying it is right, it is simply a fact.

The Guard environment can be very self-centered. Airline guys work in a hostile management/employee environment and that somethimes spills into the unit. Many Drill Status Guardsmen (DSG) guys need to Kramer in, get a couple "cheap and hollow" sorties and blast out the door. Young guys don't truly comprehend the difference between themselves and a 3000 hour guy dropping in to fly between trips on the last week of the month to get his last two sorties to stay off probation, knowing he'll push it up hard next month to spin up for Red Flag which will, in turn, tune him up for the next year. Young guys hear the older guys talk about how they try to work hard to work less at their "other job". Often times a young Lt looks up to the 3000 hour DSG guy and tries to copy that behavior...which is totally inappropriate for a young pilot cutting his tactical teeth in a combat unit. The young guy/gal doesn't have the same "Game On" switch that the 3000 hour, ten years prior service in three active duty fighter squadrons DSG guy does because he is just now developing his "Game". Unfortunately, the young guys aren't often getting the kind of old school upbringing they need because the DSG guy they are flying with may not have the time for it in the debrief.

An ANG fighter unit is an interesting stew that needs a mindful chef to keep an eye on the temperature and keep all the ingredients stirred together properly or the whole pot will go bad. Unfortunately, there aren't enough mindful chefs to go around and the young guys suffer the most.

My bad, I said I wasn't going to talk about that anymore.

[Guest AirGuardian]

Honesty is always the best policy as I sit back and watch things spill out and ease the tension, smooth things out, and questions being answered with such grand experience and first hand knowledge!!! I must thank the Rainmaster for diving head deep into an area of concern and wonder which troubles many.

By the way, I meant no insult to those who may think I tote the Guard as the best thing since sliced bread. Most of the time I am just reflecting to the days when it was rare to discuss or even be knowledgable of the Guard at all. Just a way of bringing the curiousity out for those who may not know that there are other routes. And of course your personality and goals in your life (granted they change in time) will lend yourself to be AD, Reserve/Guard, or both like many of us have as life goes on.

Anyway, my tight schedule, rare laziness and mild sarcasm has instigated a member of yesteryear to paint the broad picture of his experiences for which I'm thankful, and it gives great insight to many and has saved my fingers from typocramp.... Thanks again Rainmaster and it was a very outstanding portal to our years long ago. The Reagan part made my optics go blurry! Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, etc...oh thankfully no....

Not like you care, but I knew I waited long enuff dish out that 5 Star Hotel rating... and that was for the historical doc sir! :D

[ 22. February 2005, 23:35: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Guest AirGuardian]

There are such great things about each side of the house.

*But, what normally drives many into the Guard is that they are simply tired of it: The list would be too long with everyone's issues.

*And when they once again get tired of the Guard, they get out... you never see the Guard guy going the other way unless they are: desperate for a much needed pay check, in a bad unit, not employed full-time. Case by case basis of course, but the life style tends to ease up once in the Guard/Reserve and you have established your lifestyle/civilian job or otherwise.

Yes, activation is just as rigorous since you're thrown under the thumb of the AD in most cases, but wouldn't you rather be with your best friends of over 10 years easy in some crap hole than with others you MAY hardly know. You really can't beat the cohesive unit ideal - it may depend on the unit of course, but it seems to be the norm for most!

Remember, just one person's perspective having been Active Duty, D.C. HQ Staff Tour, Guard BUM, Activated, Full-Time Technician... it was all a great experience and I plan to hang out for some time in my current Guard unit of course. It maybe not for some with different ideals/priorities, but it was the best move for myself and my family!!!

[ 23. February 2005, 00:13: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[Guest ralph]

I see a lot of pros and cons of going each way. Does going AD really make you a better pilot? 20 yrs seems like a long time but it must be nice to have that check. What do you guys think?

[Guest AirGuardian]

With the ongoing contingencies,

You'll see the world regardless of weapon system in the AF these days whether in the AD or Reserve Component.

Always coming back to the same homefront for the most part is a plus for the R Component... Otherwise you can enjoy the 3 or so year tour onslaught for the entire 20... It's all on you!

Many will argue that the better job to have is the full-time gig in the R Component IF you land one...

Percentage wise, you won't be single for long or married for long if you don't pick carefully! Just a notion, not a hard fact. Percentages did reflect this before 911, but things are rampant across the board - the Army has the biggest trouble as anyone with one cell can imagine! Godspeed on your decision!