Jump to content

Gen Welsh - USAF Chief of Staff


busdriver

Recommended Posts

It's ok, there's some higher rank Space & Cyber Officers that think we can contract out the "no kidding keyboard ninjas" as well and just do base support and be able to grow a Ops culture. I mean, contractors are good at building a sustainment life-cycle for grooming "air-mindedness" leaders right?

Works for RPA's, should work for Cyber too. I mean, Snowden was just a fluke and a Cyber-O who's done base support & staff his/her whole career can just waltz into a AOC and be able to advocate for Offensive Cyber capabilities. That's what you pilots do, just stare at the unclass version of your TTP's and then get to a planning process and advocate like competent professionals.

There's also the argument that as O's we shouldn't be doing any of the technical stuff and just advise the enlisted 1B4's.

I imagine the frustrations the 17#'s in my year group are feeling are a little like what the AAF felt like in the beginning as well. The arguments of finding MAJCOM and Staff jobs for cyber officers as a reason to not move forward (because then who would become a General?) start to grate. We don't need 20 Cyber generals! How many EWO generals, CRO, or other small, highly technical and specialized career-field Generals are there? Build the mission with competent leaders and the culture will grow and sustain itself.

Sorry.. ranting again. I think I'm just going to start a Cyber Thread and answer some questions there.

  • Upvote 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gen Welsh spoke to the AFA at a monthly event. Here's the AF news link: propaganda

http://www.af.mil/News/ArticleDisplay/tabid/223/Article/583428/csaf-discusses-air-forces-need-to-reset.aspx

And the actual speech if you want to listen (it's about 80 minutes long):

http://secure.afa.org/events/Breakfasts/Breakfast-4-2-15-GenWelsh.mp3

He begins with typical speech material, meaning recent successes and changes, including: review of PME material with re-focus on core values, total force inclusion in training and readiness vs the tiered readiness mind-set of other services, increasing importance of job performance in EPR, resetting Air Force priorities due to limited future resources in an unpredictable world, Capstone week at BMT, new Profession of Arms Center of Excellence (PACE) at Lackland, Total Force Commission Program at Maxwell, and landing a 4-Star slot for the AF Global Strike Command for re-emphasis and leadership in the nuclear enterprise. He also states the intention of setting written expectations/milestones for Officer's advanced/master’s degree or other course completions for promotion vice the current word-of-mouth guesswork and unit-level standards. Also that job performance should be the top deciding factor for retention/promotion of Officers.

At 21:00, he talks about something like the end of "live virtual constructive training" and transitioning to "virtual constructive" training first with live training supplementing it. I don't really understand what he's talking about. I assume it's all pilot training. Could somebody tell me what the hell this is?

Next there's the need for inter-industry communication with DOD and acquisition and development reform. Then he speaks about the 2020 deadline for the Budget Control Act/sequestration--nothing really new there. He re-emphasizes the end of Force Management Programs (re-sizing) measures for AF, saying Airmen shouldn't be distracted by these now peripheral concerns.

Here's my key quote of his whole speech, discussing the major problems of internal communication with Airmen:

Somewhere in the middle, supervisors, commanders, leaders, all the way up to me, have got to be more aggressive about getting information to their people. And those people can't sit back and wait for it to appear on their phone. They've got to take accountability for finding information because it's out there and it's not that hard to find. So we're trying to fix this problem.

This is exactly why I read the speeches, publications, and hearings about the Air Force, communicate with my local leadership, track myPers releases, and follow what my Career Field Manager says. It's all there, and you can be leagues ahead of your peers if you stay connected. AF Times is as worthwhile as used toilet paper. Get your information from the source, filter it through your bullshit detector, piece it together with previous information, and you're greatly empowered.

This leads splendidly to his next point: pay and compensation concerns. He says that military compensation over last 12 years has increased about 40 percent, and the AF can't continue on that same cost-growth curve. He says we need a manageable growth rate. Let's compare that old line from the previous NDAA discussions that compensation is devouring our budget by comparing the Base Pay of an E-6 at 8 years and an O-4 at 10 years from 2000 (pre-9/11), 2003 (his "last 12 years" citation) and 2015.

Yr: 2000 / E-6 @ 8: 1932.60 / O-4 @ 10: 4040.40 | Yr: 2003 / E-6 @ 8: 2400.90 / O-4 @ 10: 4954.50 | Yr: 2015 / E-6 @ 8: 3261.00 / O-4 @ 10: 6659.10

Pay increase for an E-6 between 2000 and 2003 was 19.5%. Pay increase for an E-6 between 2003 and 2015 was 26.3%. Pay increase for an E-6 between 2000 and 2015 was 40.7%.

Pay increase for an O-4 between 2000 and 2003 was 18.4%. Pay increase for an O-4 between 2003 and 2015 was 25.6%. Pay increase for an O-4 between 2000 and 2015 was 39.3%.

That seems pretty reasonable right? 40% is not chump change. Well compare that to the USD inflation and you tell me.

Between 2000 and 2003, inflation was 6.9%. Between 2003 and 2015, inflation was 27.6%. Between 2000 and 2015, inflation was 36.3%.

Here are some pretty charts to visualize my point.

mSzUmxx.png

zaRlnIH.png

What happened between 2000 and 2003? 9/11 drove an enormous increase in funding and recruiting. We had major overhauls and increases of benefits due to the huge demands on the military and sweeping nationalism. Afterwards, pay crept back to a comparable level with inflation. When Gen Welsh says compensation increased 40% over 12 years, he's just repeating the false statistics spun in the FY14 and FY15 NDAA shenanigans. In truth, we must look back 15 years for that 40% increase and all that was just to keep pace with inflation. The last 12 years pay increases have been slightly BELOW the inflation average.

And the DOD must maintain these benefit increases if they want to continue to compete with a now rapidly growing economy and an aggressive airline industry, as discussed in congressional testimony I previously quoted.

Finally, at 1:12:00 through 1:18:00 is Gen Welsh's rebuttal to JQP about Creech and the "suck it up" misquote. JQP has since mad a small correction to his blog to correct any confusion. Gen Welsh was certainly fired-up about it.

  • Upvote 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

At 21:00, he talks about something like the end of "live virtual constructive training" and transitioning to "virtual constructive" training first with live training supplementing it. I don't really understand what he's talking about. I assume it's all pilot training. Could somebody tell me what the hell this is?

This is the same thing Generals Hostage and Carlisle have been saying. This relates to the CAF. With 4th gen and previous aircraft, you could mostly get away with training full up on the Nellis and Alaska ranges for LFEs.

However, with the introduction of 5th gen platforms, this is no longer the case; the paradigm has to shift IRT training. Due to the speeds, stealth, and our need to keep our best kept secrets secret (this statement about secrets covers a lot of justifiable info not appropriate for this forum), we can no longer be "full up" on the live ranges. The high end train like you fight exercises must be done with 1s and 0s. Therefore, virtual constructive must be the first priority for high end training.

Live training will be used for the building blocks of BFM, ACM, etc. There also will be live LFEs where airmen test their ability to safely orchestrate a fight (think airspace deconfliction where your actual body is on the line and getting the taxi timing right so the EOR doesn't clog up and make someone miss the push).

And so Gen Welsh says that LVC must become VCL in terms of priorities in the 5th gen CAF training world.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So in dumb pilot speak, is this to say at least 5th gen should prioritize more weight of training effort to the "virtual" side in order to take advantage of full system capes? I'm well aware of all the "we can't go full up" limfacs, but no sim will ever replace the training available in live fly, even if there's some "trick fucking the system" that has to be done. Sims are great training tools, but they belong in the 10-20% max category when it comes to training allocation.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This leads splendidly to his next point: pay and compensation concerns. He says that military compensation over last 12 years has increased about 40 percent, and the AF can't continue on that same cost-growth curve. He says we need a manageable growth rate. Let's compare that old line from the previous NDAA discussions that compensation is devouring our budget by comparing the Base Pay of an E-6 at 8 years and an O-4 at 10 years from 2000 (pre-9/11), 2003 (his "last 12 years" citation) and 2015.

....

What happened between 2000 and 2003? 9/11 drove an enormous increase in funding and recruiting. We had major overhauls and increases of benefits due to the huge demands on the military and sweeping nationalism. Afterwards, pay crept back to a comparable level with inflation. When Gen Welsh says compensation increased 40% over 12 years, he's just repeating the false statistics spun in the FY14 and FY15 NDAA shenanigans. In truth, we must look back 15 years for that 40% increase and all that was just to keep pace with inflation. The last 12 years pay increases have been slightly BELOW the inflation average.

And the DOD must maintain these benefit increases if they want to continue to compete with a now rapidly growing economy and an aggressive airline industry, as discussed in congressional testimony I previously quoted.

Fuck it, I'll say what everyone here thinks but can't acknowledge in real life. All jobs are not created equal. A 13-year O-4 FSS officer with a perfect record is not worth as much as the 13-year O-4 instructor/evaluator aircrew, period dot, full stop. But we pay them the same. We promote them at the same rates for O-4 (not sure about O-5). Only at the higher echelons does the split happen, but not before. That FSS officer could be the most incredible leader in the history of leadership, school grad, volunteers for every little brown nosing event, does all the big blue crap, and they STILL won't be as valuable as the #15/20 fighter pilot with similar time in service who has none of those credentials. I can't take a rock star FSS officer and drop him in a CAOC to run a fucking air war, now can I? It's not just pilots, I'm talking anyone involved who has specialized experience that is essential to running or maintaining wartime capability.

But we pay these two people the same. And pilots are starting to realize that they are grossly undervalued by the government, so they GTFO. Yes, the bonus and flight pay are a factor, but the combination of QoL+compensation simply doesn't measure up to the alternative. TOTAL compensation of the entire military is killing our budget, but we have a shortfall of people we need to maintain proper combat capability. That tells me that the problem isn't that we're paying our guys too much. It's that we're paying the wrong people too damn much, and the right people not enough. Yes the job is fun, and we all want to be true blue patriot heroes, but you can only look outside and see how much better everyone else has it until you understand that you are completely fucked in the name of fairness.

I know none of this will ever actually happen in real life, but in my eyes, we need to figure out who the hell we absolutely need in a war, and work our way backwards, and then whoever needs to get the boot will be very apparent that point.

  • Upvote 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes the job is fun, and we all want to be true blue patriot heroes, but you can only look outside and see how much better everyone else has it until you understand that you are completely fucked in the name of fairness.

What a bunch of fucking whiners. You're so poor, your life is so difficult, airlines are so much better...GTFO.

Aircrew does get paid more. When you consider the tax advantages, incentive pays, and retention bonuses it's significantly more. Maybe the issue isn't pay at all, maybe you're entitled and forgot the point of military service. Clue, it wasn't to get rich.

I've served with officers and enlisted from each service and many career fields, and I've never heard as much complaining as I do from AF pilots. Are your lives that much shittier than everyone else's? Or are you just that much more entitled?

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lighten up Francis.

Yes, some people have a skill set that should entitle them to more money.

I'm of the opinion that if an airline captain makes 250K / yr...then any combat related pilot job with all the quals/seniority should make at least 500K.

Supply and demand, or something...read it in a book once.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a bunch of ######ing whiners. You're so poor, your life is so difficult, airlines are so much better...GTFO.

Aircrew does get paid more. When you consider the tax advantages, incentive pays, and retention bonuses it's significantly more. Maybe the issue isn't pay at all, maybe you're entitled and forgot the point of military service. Clue, it wasn't to get rich.

I've served with officers and enlisted from each service and many career fields, and I've never heard as much complaining as I do from AF pilots. Are your lives that much shittier than everyone else's? Or are you just that much more entitled?

Wake up, bro. It's not just about money, it's about QOL, working for an organization you're proud of and (yes) compensation. QOL - I serve in the RC doing the same job as on AD. I also have a stable location near family, leadership that ensures 12-hour days are not standard, a wife able to pursue a career without the threat of moving and control over when/where/if I deploy. The AD needs to compete with (or compensate for lack thereof) this option.

I serve for the same big picture company, but there are two distinct differences. First, leadership is better. Some of it trickles down to the ANG but that if it gets way worse (similar to AD) that brings me to point number two: options. On the bonus in AD I'm screwed; here I have options.

Money: like it or not we are not all equal. Even moreso, Some younger pups are far more productive that the below average dude that is 5 years older - which is why the Sec Def is looking into some changes. The business world is not handcuffed by time-in-grade and compensation limits, which provides a situation with more open competition for money, leadership and promotion than we currently have. My BIL is SF (same age too) and we got to talking about this subject. He basically admitted that he only common jobs on the outside that make the same money right away for him would involve personal security in the Middle East, minus the pension plan of AD with more time away. Sorry, but I have more options. People can bitch all they want about aircrew (or legal, docs entering late, and eventually cyber) making more, but the AF needs to compensate for the fact that I have more options on the outside. In my case, the bonus (as big as it is) was not enough. A lot of people agree with me - I dont think it has influenced anyone to stay that wasn't already doing so. The SF dude doesn't need a bonus because his options aren't the same. Life isn't fair, it's real. If you want options, develop a skillset or experience that opens them up for you. Don't just sit back and bitch about others that have the work ethic to set themselves up in a better place.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a bunch of fucking whiners. You're so poor, your life is so difficult, airlines are so much better...GTFO.

Aircrew does get paid more. When you consider the tax advantages, incentive pays, and retention bonuses it's significantly more. Maybe the issue isn't pay at all, maybe you're entitled and forgot the point of military service. Clue, it wasn't to get rich.

I've served with officers and enlisted from each service and many career fields, and I've never heard as much complaining as I do from AF pilots. Are your lives that much shittier than everyone else's? Or are you just that much more entitled?

You are entitled to whatever the marketplace dictates you are entitled to. AF pilots are entitled to more than what the military has to offer, so people are leaving in droves. Have fun with whatever is left behind.

Also, dude, you don't get to preach about service to people pulling an 11-year obligation at the bare minimum.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Money: like it or not we are not all equal. Even moreso, Some younger pups are far more productive that the below average dude that is 5 years older - which is why the Sec Def is looking into some changes. The business world is not handcuffed by time-in-grade and compensation limits, which provides a situation with more open competition for money, leadership and promotion than we currently have.

You are entitled to whatever the marketplace dictates you are entitled to. AF pilots are entitled to more than what the military has to offer, so people are leaving in droves. Have fun with whatever is left behind.

Also, dude, you don't get to preach about service to people pulling an 11-year obligation at the bare minimum.

I agree that we should not be handcuffed by time-in-grade restrictions and the current promotion structure we have now (across all AFSCs), but I also don't think pilots have nearly the irreplaceable value as is being claimed in this thread. There will always be people willing to take what the DoD provides, because they are excited by the mission and called to serve. I have worked with plenty of AF pilots that feel they are very well compensated for what they do. I think we will be just fine with what's "left behind." Sure there will be fewer pilots in staff jobs, and smaller staffs in general, so what.

When I was in Afghanistan, I preferred to fly with civilian and Army crews to get around the country, because there was a lot more flexibility and a lot less bitching involved. You don't think the other services' aviators have just as much "value" on the outside? Why do I only ever hear about how pilots aren't being appreciated/paid enough in the Air Force? A service that is entirely run by, and completely focused on pilots. I've worked with enough happy pilots to know that Baseops doesn't represent the entire community, but Jesus, this whining is something else.

There is not a single enlisted Airman in space operations that makes more money in the Air Force than they could on the outside, and most officers below the rank of Major are the same way. Why do people stay? There are a lot of reasons; for one, the missions inside the Air Force are more exciting than those outside the Air Force. Operating DirecTV satellites or commercial SATCOM is boring for most people. That should be the case for most pilots as well; I'm sorry that it's not.

I prefer "sport bitcher". Whining is what a support weenie shoeclerk does when they can't beat the 1630 (that's 4:30 pm to you) traffic out the front gate.

LOL, pilots are the only ones that work 12+ hour shifts 24/7/365, right. It's ok, you don't need to know what other AFSCs do, we'll just be over here accomplishing the mission quietly, professionally, and for less money than you.

Edited by Gravedigger
  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, pilots are the only ones that work 12+ hour shifts 24/7/365, right. It's ok, you don't need to know what other AFSCs do, we'll just be over here accomplishing the mission quietly, professionally, and for less money than you.

LOL, the reason many support AFSCs need "shifts" is to define their work hours otherwise they'd only work approx 69 minutes a day, most of that on facebook or drinking coffee.

Edited by di1630
Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, the reason many support AFSCs need "shifts" is to define their work hours otherwise they'd only work approx 69 minutes a day, most of that on facebook or drinking coffee.

LOL, the reason many "support" AFSCs (11X) need ATOs/Vul/ToT/SOF Desk is to define their work hours otherwise they'd only work approx 69 minutes a day, most of that bitching and posting on BODN.

You keep saying support, as if you aren't aware there are many other OGs and ops squadrons in the Air Force that don't involve aircraft. We don't need to get into a supporting vs. supported debate here, but depending on the mission, air supports ground/sea, ground/sea supports air, space supports air/ground/sea, air/ground/sea support space, cyber supports air/ground/sea/space, air/ground/sea/space support cyber...you get the point. Air is one operational domain. It is the primary domain of Air Force operations, but not the only domain. An F-16 taking out a GPS jamming site is supporting air/ground/space domains simultaneously. A GPS operator is supporting all domains as well. At some level, everyone is supporting someone else. I think that is a concept that is often lost, and leads to the pervasive "it's all about me" attitude in the Air Force.

  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ironically enough, my wife and I decided the QoL wasn't going to be right for us as pilots, so we reclassed into jobs that were better suited for join-spouse/families. It was a tough decision, but the years have proven it was the right one.

  • Downvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

An F-16 taking out a GPS jamming site is supporting....

LOL x69....an F-16 pilot in this scenario is helping the supporting agency (space) to support the pilot appropriately.

Essentially the F-16 pilot is supporting himself, a skill perfected having done many support jobs himself during the non-combat workweek because the supporting agency was at PT, closed for training, on a 2 hr lunch break, outside the Std work hours of 0930-1530 (again 3:30 pm for you)

C'mon Gravedigger, I'm just having fun. I appreciate the support weenies (mostly) and have a healthy respect for their work (usually), and I admittedly love to sport bitch (commonly misunderstood as whining).

Do you think I really believe I'm under appreciated, under paid and more valuable than EVERY other AFSC? Of course not, is what I'd say if I were lying to make you feel better about yourself and your subpar I feel sorry for you AFSC compared to my pilot Godliness.

  • Upvote 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fuck it, I'll say what everyone here thinks but can't acknowledge in real life. All jobs are not created equal. A 13-year O-4 FSS officer with a perfect record is not worth as much as the 13-year O-4 instructor/evaluator aircrew, period dot, full stop. But we pay them the same. We promote them at the same rates for O-4 (not sure about O-5). Only at the higher echelons does the split happen, but not before. That FSS officer could be the most incredible leader in the history of leadership, school grad, volunteers for every little brown nosing event, does all the big blue crap, and they STILL won't be as valuable as the #15/20 fighter pilot with similar time in service who has none of those credentials. I can't take a rock star FSS officer and drop him in a CAOC to run a fucking air war, now can I? It's not just pilots, I'm talking anyone involved who has specialized experience that is essential to running or maintaining wartime capability.

But we pay these two people the same. And pilots are starting to realize that they are grossly undervalued by the government, so they GTFO. Yes, the bonus and flight pay are a factor, but the combination of QoL+compensation simply doesn't measure up to the alternative. TOTAL compensation of the entire military is killing our budget, but we have a shortfall of people we need to maintain proper combat capability. That tells me that the problem isn't that we're paying our guys too much. It's that we're paying the wrong people too damn much, and the right people not enough. Yes the job is fun, and we all want to be true blue patriot heroes, but you can only look outside and see how much better everyone else has it until you understand that you are completely fucked in the name of fairness.

I know none of this will ever actually happen in real life, but in my eyes, we need to figure out who the hell we absolutely need in a war, and work our way backwards, and then whoever needs to get the boot will be very apparent that point.

Uh, my point wasn't that Officers/Flyers/AFSC X earn more or less than Enlisted/Nonners/AFSC Y. I was saying Gen Welsh's claim of an "increase" of 40% over 12 years is wrong (it's over 15 years), fails to consider the paradigm-shifts of 9/11, and merely matches inflation. This repeated falsehood should be identified and ridiculed whenever presented. I just pulled data for TSgt and Major because it seemed like a good sampling and easily relatable to folks. If everybody is leaping to the "Flyers deserve X" and "DOD benefits are socialist-based," then I guess my post wasn't well-written to explain my opinion.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ironically enough, my wife and I decided the QoL wasn't going to be right for us as pilots, so we reclassed into jobs that were better suited for join-spouse/families. It was a tough decision, but the years have proven it was the right one.

Ironically? So you couldn't hack it...puss'd out...and now you call us "a bunch of ing whiners." The irony indeed.

  • Upvote 2
  • Downvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a bunch of fucking whiners. You're so poor, your life is so difficult, airlines are so much better...GTFO.

decided the QoL wasn't going to be right for us as pilots, so we reclassed into jobs that were better suited for join-spouse/families.

Really dude?

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ironically? So you couldn't hack it...puss'd out...and now you call us "a bunch of fucking whiners." The irony indeed.

Couldn't hack it? Puss'd out? GMAFB. I have not complained about my decision to leave UPT, ever. I asked my leadership for advice and guidance, and the consensus was that "making it work" between two married pilots that are not in the same year group or airframe is incredibly difficult. While people do it successfully, it frequently ends badly. Flying in the Air Force wasn't that important to me, it was more important to me to serve as an officer first and be stationed with my wife. I was fortunate in that I was assigned to a career field that I find very rewarding, but had I not been, it would have been because I chose to leave UPT, and that was a pill I was willing to swallow.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with pilots (or anyone else) deciding to get out of the Air Force. I have never said I had anything against pilots choosing to leave; and I hope those that do find a better life in another career. What I am trying to convey is that AF pilots are some of the best paid and best taken care of service members in the entire DoD, so the complaining seems a lot like Saudi princes at UPT complaining about having to park their M3s with the rest of the studs, whereas in Saudi Arabia, they drive a Maserati, and they get to park wherever they want.

I hope that BODN represents the vocal minority on this issue and these discussions don't happen in front of the maintainers or AFE folks you guys work with.

We are clearly not going to find common ground here, so we'll just have to go with I'm right on this one, trust me.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are clearly not going to find common ground here, so we'll just have to go with I'm right on this one, trust me.

When you find yourself in a hole, STOP FUCKING DIGGING.

Technique only.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...