Desert PT Testing

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

I do like the Army version; push-ups, sit-ups and a 2 mile run - twice a year and at any time the CC can make a person test b/c he/she thinks they are out of shape and fat. If it works for them, it should also work for us.

I agree, and I think it's what we should have gone with, not necessarily 2 miles, if the AF preferred 1.5 it doesn't really make a difference. The waist measurement was definitely the most "fudged" category, and even when done honestly it's hard to be consistent about it.

SIMPLE PT test that would work for the AF

1 minute max pushups 25 points

1 minute max situps 25 points

timed run 50 points

it's really just that simple, and would eliminate most of the wailing and whining that is associated with the current PT test.

[WABoom]

So in our sq we have 3 dudes that are waist measurement only, they are skinny so they get max points and a day pass from the boss. Now if they can be declared "fit" by using only one of the four components can't we all do that??? Note sarcasm

[WABoom]

So in our sq we have 3 dudes that are waist measurement only, they are skinny so they get max points and a day pass from the boss. Now if they can be declared "fit" by using only one of the four components can't we all do that??? Note sarcasm

Just read this on Air Force Times, so now the fitness test for the Army is making soldiers snap!

http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2010/08/ap-reservist-charged-in-shooting-faces-trial-083010/

[capt4fans]

I honestly think I'm going to try and get my PFT done during the deployment. We've got a few PTLs around the squadron, and I was definitely in better shape after six months in the desert than I am now that I have American restaurants and fast food available and a desire to see my wife and kid for more than an hour a day.

I know, I know...excuses excuses. But in the desert, I was running on a daily basis. I often find it hard to make time for that at home station with all the other queepy shit going on at work and maintaining some kind of family life.

You shouldn't have any PTL's now right? All civilian all the time? just curious.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

You're losing points because you are slow as . Run faster, more. And I call bullshit on your ability to eat 1500 calories a day.

I dunno...I think being that I'm not built like a skinny-ass runner and that I'm nearly 40 years old, running a 7:30 minute mile and maxing push ups and sit ups is fairly fit. I suppose my 3 miles a day (6 days a week) isn't enough then? I know dudes who run twice a year...on their PT test. But because they were a size 28 inch waist, it made the test easy for them (this was during the old test).

1500 calories is the rock bottom floor that I'd eat...but I try to keep my calories between 1800 and 2200. That's the goal.

As someone else said, the waist measurement is completely about "image" and not about fitness. They have done better WRT the waist measurement part by making the max 35, but then they went and ed it up by making the failing grade 39. I guess if you're tall and built like the Hulk you're screwed regardless of how fast you run or how strong you are.

It's really ing sad that in order for someone with my build to be considered "fit", I'd have to do a 6 minute mile, while other guys can jog out an 8-9 minute mile and still get the same score because somehow having a smaller waistline makes them more in shape.

Note that this isn't just a bitch session...I'm calling out the test as being flawed because honestly, not all of us can be rail-thin just because we want to be.

[zrooster99]

You shouldn't have any PTL's now right? All civilian all the time? just curious.

I took mine yesterday...we had 3 civs and about 5 AF administering.

Edited September 1, 2010 by zrooster99

[nsplayr]

You shouldn't have any PTL's now right? All civilian all the time? just curious.

Units still have PTLs and UFPMs (unit firness program managers) even though we do not do the testing anymore.

WRT desert PT testing, I'm 100% against anything that takes place in the AOR that does not contribute to either the mission, or sustaining people to perform the mission the next day (i.e. eating, working out, church, sleep, etc.) Anything beyond that other than the occasional R&R good deal (NFL cheerleaders performance at BAF? We can only hope...) is BS in my book and that's the fat that should be cut from our overseas operations.

If you have dudes there to enforce gay uniform standards, other dudes to administer a useless "fitness" assessment, and a third group of dudes to process paperwork that is a self-licking ice cream cone then you're doing it wrong. Seriously, I'm still new here but I was aghast to see exercises going on in a deployed location in country. Wait, instead of simulated, simulated, simulated shouldn't we all just be doing our no-sh*t jobs out there? No, I'm not going to delay my takeoff for a f*cking change of command ceremony going on across the base! Are you freaking kidding me?!?

Also if you're getting fatter on deployment you're also doing it wrong. WTF else do you do there other than work, workout, and sleep? Put the muffin down and do some pullups.

Edited September 1, 2010 by nsplayr

[Royal]

I dunno...I think being that I'm not built like a skinny-ass runner and that I'm nearly 40 years old, running a 7:30 minute mile and maxing push ups and sit ups is fairly fit. I suppose my 3 miles a day (6 days a week) isn't enough then? I know dudes who run twice a year...on their PT test. But because they were a size 28 inch waist, it made the test easy for them (this was during the old test).

1500 calories is the rock bottom floor that I'd eat...but I try to keep my calories between 1800 and 2200. That's the goal.

As someone else said, the waist measurement is completely about "image" and not about fitness. They have done better WRT the waist measurement part by making the max 35, but then they went and ######ed it up by making the failing grade 39. I guess if you're tall and built like the Hulk you're screwed regardless of how fast you run or how strong you are.

It's really ######ing sad that in order for someone with my build to be considered "fit", I'd have to do a 6 minute mile, while other guys can jog out an 8-9 minute mile and still get the same score because somehow having a smaller waistline makes them more in shape.

Note that this isn't just a bitch session...I'm calling out the test as being flawed because honestly, not all of us can be rail-thin just because we want to be.

I know of an O-5 who's a valuable asset to the AF, especially to the flying community, but now he's looking at other career options because of the new PT rules. Why? Because he's built like a damn tank. He's not out of shape by any means, but the "39" rule screwed him.

I've got a waistline that would make any 13 year old girl jealous, and it's nice to get the free points on the test; but it's bullshit that we're going to lose people that we need, people the AF has invested millions of dollars in, due to the fact some genius picked an arbitrary number as the standard of "fitness." I wonder when they're going to add a 5th portion to the test for everyone who has a receding hairline. "Male pattern baldness? Not in my Air Force. Automatic PT fail."

[nsplayr]

There are ways around the rules for individuals who are special enough. From what I hear (and have seen) there is a guy who's a gunship legend that's quite rotund yet has managed to stay in the AF. Honestly, if you have a 40+ inch waist, max the rest of the test (or at least run fast), and are an undeniably invaluable asset to the Air Force then get with your boss and your boss' boss.*

*This situation applies to 0.01% of people who are currently failing the PFT.

I guess I just have little sympathy for people who can't keep up and then wanna make excuses. Is the waist measurement BS and all about looks, yes. But so are lots of other things (powerpoint fonts, hair standards, useless paperwork, etc.) so I guess you either play the game long enough to hopefully outlive the stupidest rules or you take it like a man and at least go down fighting.

[Butters]

I think someone here said something about the Air Force to the effect of: "It's not about getting the mission done, it's how we look doing it."

That's exactly the issue behind the waist measurement. Is an "image" issue. Only in the AF do you get points for looking good rather than being good.

They AF wants you to "look" like you are in shape, regardless of if you can kill the PT test otherwise.

The Army also has a full lenght photo of you on their version of the SURF. The AF did that a long time ago but decided that ugly people needed to be promoted to. Maybe we should bring that back.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

I guess I just have little sympathy for people who can't keep up and then wanna make excuses. Is the waist measurement BS and all about looks, yes. But so are lots of other things (powerpoint fonts, hair standards, useless paperwork, etc.) so I guess you either play the game long enough to hopefully outlive the stupidest rules or you take it like a man and at least go down fighting.

Being a shitty PP warrior isn't going to get you booted. Not promoted to O-5? Maybe...but you aren't going to face disciplinary action for it.

Case in point...I was in the Army for nearly 8 years. They had a fitness test that only measured performance, not looks or build. They had a separate body composition test that was all about "appearance". At least that's the honest approach to it.

Bottom line...my bitch isn't about the test itself. I agree people should stay fit. I take the time to run and work out, so should others. But the waist measurement is purely about looks and automatically penalizes "stocky" people like me. Just realize we're awarding people an automatic 20 points merely for being thin. That has nothing to do with their actual fitness.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Hueypilot812

[BigFreddie]

I hate the fact people are going to jump through hoops to set up programs in the desert to do this. You'll have to get a track/course certified. Then get PTLs trained. Then fight the system to all the stuff put into the recording system. We all need additional duties when deployed...

It is a waste, pure and simple. If you are in the "fight" it is probably too late to be worried about getting fit. In all reality it is going to only hit the PCS/365 day TDYers now. I could see it spreading to everyone though.

And I've always hated the fact that guys with smaller waists who ran slower and did fewer push-ups and sit-ups scored higher than me on the PT test. Naturally slim people have a definite advantage. Hell, the CC at my deployed location is 6'6" or so, with a slim athletic build and he runs like the wind (15' stride sure helps) but he's always on the verge of failing due to having a 39" waist.

BF

Edited September 1, 2010 by BigFreddie

[Gravedigger]

Unless he's about 65 years old, it's impossible to get those numbers. You'd fail the PT test by simple measure of having a 41 inch waist.

Try again and next time, give us the whole story.

Uhh...dude this was like 6 years ago, I'm sorry that I failed to provide documentation. Point is, the guy is huge, probably around 6'4" 215lbs. Anyways he had a very large waist, I think it was 40" or 41" or something. He failed the waist measurement, however, if you failed the waist you could use BMI to replace it, which he passed. I ran a 9:25, he was almost a full lap ahead of me, and I believe finished in around 8:30...although it could have been 8:34. Either way it was sub 9:36. We both maxed pushups and situps. I got a 100 and Excellent (because I'm skinny), and he got an ~87 and Good along with all of the other folks that had thin waists and were not in great shape. Maybe it was an 88 or possibly even 89. I seem to remember 87, but I don't have the paperwork, so I really can't be certain. Moral of the story, that is complete bullshit. He destroyed me on the run, and I beat him by ~13 points on paper. Oh yeah, I think this was a Tuesday morning in early September.

EDIT:

This is what I'm talking about.

They have done better WRT the waist measurement part by making the max 35, but then they went and fucked it up by making the failing grade 39. I guess if you're tall and built like the Hulk you're screwed regardless of how fast you run or how strong you are.

It's really fucking sad that in order for someone with my build to be considered "fit", I'd have to do a 6 minute mile, while other guys can jog out an 8-9 minute mile and still get the same score because somehow having a smaller waistline makes them more in shape.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Gravedigger

[pawnman]

You shouldn't have any PTL's now right? All civilian all the time? just curious.

No, we still have PTLs and a UPFM. They just no longer administer the tests.

Hell, I might opt to do mine in the desert with the squadron PTL, then if you score 90+, you don't have to retest for another year...right around deployment time anyway. Hmmm...

[Herk Driver]

Why is this news? PT tests for those deployed for a year or longer. That is no different than anywhere else in the USAF. All other PT tests are optional. On a positive note, you have to have a valid test on-file prior to deployment and if it lapses while in theater, no big deal.

This has been out in an un-official format for a little while. This is not news.

[HuggyU2]

Curious...

There's a lot of respect for Lt Gen Frank Gorenc. And for good reason.

Big guy, he is. I'm guessing he's never had a 36" waist or smaller. Seems it hasn't affected his ability to be a great commander.

[pawnman]

I'm curious...if you're able to test while deployed, is the 42-day waiting period after a re-deployment going to go away? If guys are able to take the test while deployed, shouldn't you be able to take the test on your first day back?

[capt4fans]

I'm curious...if you're able to test while deployed, is the 42-day waiting period after a re-deployment going to go away? If guys are able to take the test while deployed, shouldn't you be able to take the test on your first day back?

Shh...you know they read theese boards. And it's getting used to the area that you live in again. Going from the desert to Colorado Springs, and tesing on day 1 would increase failure rates by at least 50%.

[Guest Jollygreen]

...is the 42-day waiting period after a re-deployment going to go away? ...

I have always wondered where they got 42 from. Why not 40 or 44?

Then it dawned on me...

Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe and Everything: "42"

Sure hope that isn't how they came up with "39".

Edited September 5, 2010 by Jollygreen

[Mambo]

I'm curious...if you're able to test while deployed, is the 42-day waiting period after a re-deployment going to go away? If guys are able to take the test while deployed, shouldn't you be able to take the test on your first day back?

You are allowed to test earlier than the 42 days if you are in "exempt" status, you just have to request it. Generally speaking, you are in pretty good shape getting back from a deployment so might as well knock it out as soon as you can.

1.21.8. Ensures prior exempted members returning from deployment are assessed after the period of acclimatization (42 days from return to home station for RegAF and AGR; 90 days for other ARC members) unless member requests to assess earlier.

[nsplayr]

Yea, it is a maximum wait, not a minimum. And 42 days is 6 weeks last time I checked so it is a nice round wag if you think about it in terms of weeks to reacclimate to the local environment and/or get back in shape if you were a fatass out there in the desert.

[Guest Jollygreen]

Yea, it is a maximum wait, not a minimum. And 42 days is 6 weeks last time I checked so it is a nice round wag if you think about it in terms of weeks to reacclimate to the local environment and/or get back in shape if you were a fatass out there in the desert.

There really should be a medical reason for the number of days.

I believe a fitness test should be a test of fitness (PT test).

I believe a health test should be a test of health (flight physical for most of us).

Failing either can get ya booted from the service and that is okay. But both should be supported by medical science, not round wags.

Side Note: Still can’t buy off on the idea that someone 6’5” with a 39” waist should receive the same “fitness” score as someone 5’0” with a 39” waist.

[nsplayr]

There really should be a medical reason for the number of days.

Maybe there is. I'm not a doctor, I'm a navigator. However, observation tells me 6 weeks is a nice round number someone probably decided was a decent amount of time to get back into shape/acclimated to your home environment.

I think everyone agrees on the waist measurement not being fair and at minimum should be adjusted for height but I think that particular horse is dead. Until we get our heads on straight as a military and go to a functional test that actually measures power output, major muscle endurance, and mimics typical work-related movements then we're stuck only improving at the margins. Having a category that's only purpose is based on not looking fat is dumb and almost everyone will agree here, but unless you are CSAF let's try not to get derailed on bashing the waist measurement once again.

[Guest Hueypilot812]

Side Note: Still can’t buy off on the idea that someone 6’5” with a 39” waist should receive the same “fitness” score as someone 5’0” with a 39” waist.

Buddy of mine is something like 5'6" tall and has a 28 inch waist. He is by no means a PT machine. Even if he slacked off and gained a lot of weight, and his waist ballooned to a hefty 32 or 33 inches (increase of 4-5 inches), he'd still max the waist.

Someone like me, when I'm in the best shape of my life, I'm about a 35-36 inch waist. Maybe max...but probably not. When I'm in "good" shape, I'm about a 37 or so. Just how I'm built. I can't imagine having my build and being 6'4". It seems much about the USAF fitness test is a best-guess WAG.

[Guest]

I can't imagine having my build and being 6'4". It seems much about the USAF fitness test is a best-guess WAG.

My max weight on the charts was 227, IIRC. I do remember I had to drop 50 lbs after my senior season in college to make my weight. I had a 37 inch waist when I started losing weight and a 35.5 inch waist when I finished...after dropping 53 lbs. My weight was not carried in my waist. What I really lost was about 40% of my squat and bench strength because I stopped lifting and just did aerobic shit, you know...like a chick would do. I always thought it was funny that the USAF thought I should train like a chick.

I thought the tests we had to pass at the beginning of training camp each year were a much better indicator of strength, agility, flexibility and overall fitness...but those expectations would be unrealistic for an average person and I never had to train for the goofy USAF PT tests as hard as I trained for the football training camp tests. In fact, I never "trained" at all for the USAF tests.

The weight standards and PT tests are always going to be a somewhat arbitrary and stupid way to see if someone is in adequate physical condition to do their job.

BL, this shit is a fact of life and it is best to just do what it takes to pass (without bitching) and don't suck at your job and you'll be fine.