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AF Light Air Support Aircraft


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2 hours ago, ATIS said:

Thank goodness...and I'm a former S-3 Viking aviator (and DRACO plankowner).  

 

ATIS

Agreed.  The concept was cool, huge payload capacity, massive loiter time, 25 inch sensors etc.  But it’s just too big and too loud to do what Draco does.

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Two similar but different requirements (AOW & LAAR)

AOW for AFSOC, LAAR for ACC

AOW - AT 802

LAAR - Calidus B350 or Scorpion Jet

Posted only because GOs, SESs and CODEL staffers lurk on this forum looking for the best new ideas on Airpower and they need guidance on where to spend billions of dollars...

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1 hour ago, Clark Griswold said:

Two similar but different requirements (AOW & LAAR)

AOW for AFSOC, LAAR for ACC

AOW - AT 802

LAAR - Calidus B350 or Scorpion Jet

Posted only because GOs, SESs and CODEL staffers lurk on this forum looking for the best new ideas on Airpower and they need guidance on where to spend billions of dollars...

Sad they never gave Scorpion Jet an honest look.  The wing is very modern and extremely efficient versatile allowing high altitude dash speeds then slow down and sit on station for 6-8 hours which would double or triple the range ring of the other players.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

sit on station for 6-8 hours

Imagine sitting in that thing for 8+ hour missions on a regular basis. How much storage does that thing have for piss bags?

The best solution was turning the Dornier into a do-everything platform. 

Edited by BrightNeptune
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5 minutes ago, BrightNeptune said:

Imagine sitting in that thing for 8+ hour missions on a regular basis. How much storage does that thing have for piss bags?

The best solution was turning the Dornier into a do-everything platform. 

Maybe they'll add a hatch so the crews can drop piss bags on the enemy. 

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11 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Sad they never gave Scorpion Jet an honest look.  The wing is very modern and extremely efficient versatile allowing high altitude dash speeds then slow down and sit on station for 6-8 hours which would double or triple the range ring of the other players.

Concur - I don't know why such a superior and innovative design could not spur the interest of the AF, my hunch is that they didn't design it and they already had in mind the AT-6 or A-29 for LAAR because culturally / historically people had in their nuggets that you adapt an existing or older aircraft for this mission.  Reminds of Verbal in The Usual Suspects

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Call it bias, prejudice, preconceived, whatever... the powers that be already decided that if they were going to get a LAAR to bring air support to the long mission of COIN / Occupation in Iraq & Afghanistan in a low-ish threat environment that a turboprop was gonna be it.  If I'm out of my lane as you were involved in this process back in the day tell me to correct back to course but that's just my hunch.

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On 7/9/2022 at 1:57 PM, BrightNeptune said:

How much storage does that thing have for piss bags?

A lot! I even puked in one and there was ample storage for my physio bag, my piss, my lunch and all our flight test gear 😅

Fantastic jet, I still can’t believe it didn’t even get a fair shake. Far and away more capable for the fight we need to prep for now.

Legs for days, power & payload out the ass, remarkable performance envelope flying fast and slow, just baffling to have this kind of platform handed to you on a silver platter and be like, “No thanks.”

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22 hours ago, nsplayr said:

A lot! I even puked in one and there was ample storage for my physio bag, my piss, my lunch and all our flight test gear 😅

Fantastic jet, I still can’t believe it didn’t even get a fair shake. Far and away more capable for the fight we need to prep for now.

Legs for days, power & payload out the ass, remarkable performance envelope flying fast and slow, just baffling to have this kind of platform handed to you on a silver platter and be like, “No thanks.”

It shows just how broken the system is.  "Big thinkers" like Starbaby corrupted the critical thinking and analysis that would have allowed for an honest assessment.  Instead, Starbaby had the ear of the chief (for once in his life), and he brainwashed them into thinking it had to be a prop.  I guess that is what happens when you let a WSO pick the airplane. 

Sadly, I saw far too much of this during my time in the five sided dumpster fire.  Real analysis is usually overcome by flawed group think, service rice bowls and personal agendas.  A part of me believes they down-selected to props knowing it would marginalize the capability so they could wait out McCain and the others pushing for Lite-attack.  Had they gone with Scorpion Jet and followed their own rules of analysis we would have a couple hundred on the ramp right now providing deep options for the COCOMs...AND they would have had the legs and capability to support some of the peer/near-peer fight (albeit outside some of the threat rings). 

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All checks.  Acquisitions is as jacked up as talent management; this organization is destined for failure.  Our only advantages are money (for now) and the fantastic people at the line level in flying squadrons. We attract the best this nation has to offer, unfortunately we are too dumb to keep them.  I only hope one day there is true accountability for the over-educated timid bureaucrats play acting as warriors.

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3 hours ago, Danger41 said:

What’s the status of the Scorpion jet now? Still keeping the lights on with it or mothballed?

I think they fly them occasionally for test but that's about it.

2 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

Had a discussion with a guy who’s supposedly in the know on this yesterday; he’s pretty sure it’s gonna be the AT-6.

That would be very interesting and a complete abortion since the AT-6 doesn't meet several of the objective requirements (it actually failed part of the assessment).

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Of the options which competed, AT-6 was the last one I’d want to fly into an AO shooting scenario because it provides the lowest crew SA.  However I also think it’ll be selected, assuming the finding is real (still TBD).

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That would be very interesting and a complete abortion since the AT-6 doesn't meet several of the objective requirements (it actually failed part of the assessment).


Well, that’s never stopped them before…why start now?
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1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

I think they flight them occasionally for test but that's about it.

That would be very interesting and a complete abortion since the AT-6 doesn't meet several of the objective requirements (it actually failed part of the assessment).

I’m in no way, shape or form associated with AO so I can’t speak to the capes of the aircraft.  I can say that this guy’s reasoning/data analysis on why he thinks it’s gonna be the AT-6 made a lot of sense to me.  Official announcement is supposed to come by the end of the month.

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1 hour ago, DirkDiggler said:

I’m in no way, shape or form associated with AO so I can’t speak to the capes of the aircraft.  I can say that this guy’s reasoning/data analysis on why he thinks it’s gonna be the AT-6 made a lot of sense to me.  Official announcement is supposed to come by the end of the month.

textron needs jobs

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FWIW, I’ve had multiple people tell me they know somebody with the inside scoop that each competitor is the one that was picked and also that the whole program was starting over. All I know is that they picked something and aren’t starting over.

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So… what do you think the stock portfolios of certain in the know members gets of Congress looked like say 4 days ago…


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

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34 minutes ago, pvbell said:

Looks like this announcement is for FMS. Interesting timing none the less.

Yea I don’t think that’s an indication one way or the other on armed overwatch.

From what I’ve heard the AT-6 is the least likely of the three contenders to be chosen because it failed to meet an important capability requirement in the competition.

Now maybe that just means it will in fact be chosen just because USAF acquisitions is fucked up like a football bat 🧐

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