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2 hours ago, SocialD said:

I don't consider myself a liberal/democrat and I generally stay out of this shit, but I can't really get behind this decision (of course that doesn't really matter lol).  Though nothing is done in a vacuum and we can always get into correlation vs causation, it will be interesting to follow crime stats over the next 15-25 years to see if there is a spike in crime.  It will be especially interesting since we'll likely have many states that impose heavy bans on abortion and others that keep it mostly open.  It's not as easy as "just going to another state," and many more children will now be born into destitution and parentless and sometimes pretty horrific situations (ask any LEO friends that work the "rough" areas of any big city).  Many of these kids will be unwanted and likely treated as such by their parent/the system...this is a powder keg for criminalistic activities.  I think many will rue the day we overturned ROE.  Look that that, a damn poet, I should be writer or some shit...jk, my grammar suck ballz.

Overturning Roe does not ban abortion, as you said, and I don't think as many states as people think will ban it.

 

I suspect only the most conservative states will outright ban Roe. Most of the rest will probably end up somewhere around where Europe ultimately settled, 12-16 weeks. CDC claims 91% of abortions are week 13 or earlier. So you're probably not going to see enough of a crime spike to rue anything.

 

 

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2 hours ago, SocialD said:

I don't consider myself a liberal/democrat and I generally stay out of this shit, but I can't really get behind this decision (of course that doesn't really matter lol).  Though nothing is done in a vacuum and we can always get into correlation vs causation, it will be interesting to follow crime stats over the next 15-25 years to see if there is a spike in crime.  It will be especially interesting since we'll likely have many states that impose heavy bans on abortion and others that keep it mostly open.  It's not as easy as "just going to another state," and many more children will now be born into destitution and parentless and sometimes pretty horrific situations (ask any LEO friends that work the "rough" areas of any big city).  Many of these kids will be unwanted and likely treated as such by their parent/the system...this is a powder keg for criminalistic activities.  I think many will rue the day we overturned ROE.  Look that that, a damn poet, I should be writer or some shit...jk, my grammar suck ballz.

I read something a while back on NYC and Roe v Wade.  The hypothesis was that RvW stemmed violence in NYC by having fewer unwanted kids growing unto early adulthood which also tied in with when Guiliani took over as Mayor.  The argument was his policies didnt really turn NYC into a better place.  It was fewer criminals being born.  IDK what hte truth is.  But the argument that abortion = less crime is a pretty sad statistic.

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My wife works for one of the largest and well known companies in the world.  She got an email last night stating that travel expenses are now included in her health care plan if she needs to travel to get an abortion.  I hadn’t thought of this potential response from employers.  It’ll be interesting to see if her health care costs go up.  And it will be interesting to see what pro-life employees like her think about her premium going up to pay for this.  

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4 hours ago, SocialD said:

 Many of these kids will be unwanted and likely treated as such by their parent/the system...this is a powder keg for criminalistic activities.

Why would many of these kids be “unwanted”?  Are you suggesting that there is a shortage of families wanting to adopt babies given up for adoption?

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11 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Why would many of these kids be “unwanted”?  Are you suggesting that there is a shortage of families wanting to adopt babies given up for adoption?

My co-teacher is a foster parent and he gets calls from the state on a weekly basis asking him to take in kids as it would seem the number of kids needing a home outnumbers the amount foster parents available.  I would think the whole adoption system is in dramatic need of reform as from the people I know who have adopted it sounds nightmarishly bureaucratic and expensive. 

Of course, abortion isn't the answer either.   I don't get the outright fanaticism the "pro-choicers" have over this.  It's almost like sex was banned with the way they act.  FFS, the need for abortion is easily avoided via birth control or abstinence ( the difference between us and animals is we supposedly can control our urges).  Oh wait, that would require responsibility and self-control, the anthesis of Leftism.  Funny how they whine about personal choice and freedom for abortion but want to regulate and control EVERY other aspect of the average American's life. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Overturning Roe does not ban abortion, as you said, and I don't think as many states as people think will ban it.

I suspect only the most conservative states will outright ban Roe. Most of the rest will probably end up somewhere around where Europe ultimately settled, 12-16 weeks. CDC claims 91% of abortions are week 13 or earlier. So you're probably not going to see enough of a crime spike to rue anything.

Yeah, people going off the rails on abortion being "banned," when the reality is more complex.  The legality of abortion will be up to the states.  There are various maps out there outlining the expected results state by state.  My recollection is 26 states will leave abortion completely legal, a handful will outright ban abortions, and the rest will have a mix of bans after X amount of weeks.

All subject to lawmaking in individual states, of course.  And I think people may be surprised at how their state legislatures react.  Almost 50 years since Roe was first passed, and many states have changed a lot in that time.  Will be interesting to see if all the current marching in the street against the Supreme Court decision translates into people marching on their individual state houses.  I'd like to think that would be the case, but for so many people, it seems their knowledge of the political process doesn't go beyond "My Team Good, Your Team Bad" and whatever clown show AOC is doing that week.

I've heard the whole "abortions led to a decline in crime" idea before, but I've seen better arguments for the phase-out of lead gasoline leading to a decline in lead-related brain damage, and an associated drop in crime.

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49 minutes ago, pbar said:

My co-teacher is a foster parent and he gets calls from the state on a weekly basis asking him to take in kids as it would seem the number of kids needing a home outnumbers the amount foster parents available.  I would think the whole adoption system is in dramatic need of reform as from the people I know who have adopted it sounds nightmarishly bureaucratic and expensive. 

Of course, abortion isn't the answer either.   I don't get the outright fanaticism the "pro-choicers" have over this.  It's almost like sex was banned with the way they act.  FFS, the need for abortion is easily avoided via birth control or abstinence ( the difference between us and animals is we supposedly can control our urges).  Oh wait, that would require responsibility and self-control, the anthesis of Leftism.  Funny how they whine about personal choice and freedom for abortion but want to regulate and control EVERY other aspect of the average American's life. 

Thanks for the post.  My response to SocialD was wrt adoption.  For some reason there are people (most on the left…not sure of SocialD’s philosophy) who actually think that there are massive amount of babies, that if given up for adoption, would not be able to find homes.  
 

I think it’s great that parents are willing to foster children…though more foster care isn’t the solution as it’s still part of the broken system.  Adoption, preferably at birth, fixes many of those problems.  For some reason those on the left never publicly voice support for mothers with unwanted pregnancies to have their babies and give them up for adoption.  

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47 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

For some reason those on the left never publicly voice support for mothers with unwanted pregnancies to have their babies and give them up for adoption.  

Are you in favor of providing any kind of support for those women who choose to carry to term? Many are single and can’t afford to leave the work force for any significant period of time. Or should we just force them to work through their pregnancy if they want to keep their job? Maybe give them a day or two off to actually give birth? What about mental health support for things like postpartum depression? Think most of these women have great healthcare plans? Yeah, yeah, guess they should’ve thought of that before they decided to be promiscuous (typically uttered by dudes that would’ve banged pretty much any available warm hole in their 20s). 

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1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Are you in favor of providing any kind of support for those women who choose to carry to term? Many are single and can’t afford to leave the work force for any significant period of time. Or should we just force them to work through their pregnancy if they want to keep their job? Maybe give them a day or two off to actually give birth? What about mental health support for things like postpartum depression? Think most of these women have great healthcare plans? Yeah, yeah, guess they should’ve thought of that before they decided to be promiscuous (typically uttered by dudes that would’ve banged pretty much any available warm hole in their 20s). 

Wait…so the ACA doesn’t ensure/provide healthcare to the majority of these working women?  I thought that’s what we were told when it was passed?  As for being “forced” to work through their pregnancy—who is being forced to work?  And if someone doesn’t work, is there not unemployment/welfare benefits available?   

But thanks for also for your comment wrt to not being pro-adoption vs just being pro-abortion…you helped me make my point!

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5 hours ago, ecugringo said:

I read something a while back on NYC and Roe v Wade.  The hypothesis was that RvW stemmed violence in NYC by having fewer unwanted kids growing unto early adulthood which also tied in with when Guiliani took over as Mayor.  The argument was his policies didnt really turn NYC into a better place.  It was fewer criminals being born.  IDK what hte truth is.  But the argument that abortion = less crime is a pretty sad statistic.

There's a lot of "explanation" out there for the 90s crime drop. I'm not going to dive into the abortion debate but in short people have said it's everything from the reduction of led on the atmosphere after led gasoline was banned to the expiration of the assault weapons ban. Point is, noone really know what caused the 90s crime drop, but people sure do love to target it for political purposes. 

 

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3 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Wait…so the ACA doesn’t ensure/provide healthcare to the majority of these working women?  I thought that’s what we were told when it was passed?  As for being “forced” to work through their pregnancy—who is being forced to work?  And if someone doesn’t work, is there not unemployment/welfare benefits available?   

But thanks for also for your comment wrt to not being pro-adoption vs just being pro-abortion…you helped me make my point!

Oh, come on. You know very well that many will slip through our woeful social safety net and even the ones who manage to take advantage of all we have to offer will slip so far behind they’ll never recover, AND they’ll be criticized as a drain on society by the very people forcing their morals on them. I can’t tell if you missed my point or are being purposely obtuse. In either case here it is one more time: The anti-abortion movement in this country is filled with some of the most hypocritical assholes on the planet. The generalization that pro-lifers only care about life until conception is rooted in truth. Some of y’all need a lesson from George:

 

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1 hour ago, Prozac said:

The anti-abortion movement in this country is filled with some of the most hypocritical assholes on the planet. The generalization that pro-lifers only care about life until conception is rooted in truth.

Wait…so let me get this straight.  This is what the left wants:

- Abortion up until the moment of delivery

- Taxpayer funded abortions up until the moment of delivery 

- Taxpayer funded healthcare, whether or not the woman decides to terminate the pregnancy or have the delivery 

- Taxpayer funded welfare payments for women whether or not she gets pregnant, and if she does get pregnant it’s irrelevant whether or not she wants to terminate the pregnancy, and then she still gets welfare payments after the abortion or the delivery, regardless if she chooses to keep the baby or puts it up for adoption 

- Taxpayer funded birth control options

- Businesses being forced by the government to pay a woman for work after she’s delivered a baby, even for her not doing any work during that time 

…and I’m sure there are others that I missed.  Oh and the left believes now this all applies to men since supposedly science now says that men can also get pregnant.

But yes…it’s only the anti-abortion crowd that’s the problem.

Full disclosure:  As I’ve mentioned in previous posts on this issue, if the argument for being pro-abortion is because one truly believes in maximum individual liberty then I’ll support their opinion (ie the Libertarian Party)…but since they don’t, they (the left, just like the right), are just picking and choosing what individual “liberties” they want and believe others should have.  So let me know if you want to discuss how the Libertarian Party platform is the way to go and I’ll be right there with you.  Until then, regardless of my personal opinions on abortions, it’s best to leave it up the states.  And if it’s so popular as the left tells us, then I guess the Dems will win just about every federal and state election this November…though I have my doubts.

This is probably a good time to remind those that Prozac thinks the government should be able to arrest/prosecute/put you in prison if you have a firearm magazine that holds more than 10 rounds.  But yes, those who disagree with him are the hypocritical assholes.

Edited by HeloDude
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On 6/27/2022 at 7:59 AM, ecugringo said:

But the argument that abortion = less crime is a pretty sad statistic.

 

 

As always, there are plenty of people who challenge their study, but there is some thought on it.

 

 

On 6/27/2022 at 9:44 AM, HeloDude said:

Why would many of these kids be “unwanted”?  Are you suggesting that there is a shortage of families wanting to adopt babies given up for adoption?

 

 

I'm suggesting that some people don't really want really want the kids, yet don't put them up for adoption and "raise" them in neglect...often in single-parent/drug-ridden situations.  

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24 minutes ago, Lockjaw said:

Probably not the wisest COA in hindsight...but do people flip their shit when someone eats a Red Baron pizza at work?

He can take pride in his countries military aviation pioneers and not endorse the atrocities committed by the Nazi party, IMO. If it was a bunch of SS douchebags or concentration camp guards then yea, that's a different story IMO.

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11 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

Probably not the wisest COA in hindsight...but do people flip their shit when someone eats a Red Baron pizza at work?

He can take pride in his countries military aviation pioneers and not endorse the atrocities committed by the Nazi party, IMO. If it was a bunch of SS douchebags or concentration camp guards then yea, that's a different story IMO.

I think most Americans should watch the German period drama "Our Mothers and Our Fathers." 

Is a German perspective of WW2 and the Nazi rise to power. Sort of gives insights that painting every German as absolute evil in 1942 is a very broad brush. Many had no idea what was actually happening at concentration camps until the end of the war, many believed they were just fulfilling patriotic duty. Many believed Jewish treatment was abhorrent but the political system was still in tact enough to reverse it. 

It's not an apologetic piece by any means. But it's a really good sense of the slow and methodical numbing approach the Nazi party used to change society into such a horrific machine and some of the awful choices faced. One of the more interesting parts is when one character only recognizes the awfulness of what's happening after he's already been deep enough to become complicit in it and the mental turmoil it causes him until the final episode.

Point is, it's a good perspective for Americans because we have this complex that this is something that could never happen to us, that it would be impossible. The reality is, Hittler was an overwhelmingly popular elected leader to start and a decade later he completely turned his country into one of the most evil empires in history. We are always a breath away from losing our democracy/humanity/values/culture unless we are vigilant about protecting it. 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, StoleIt said:

 

He can take pride in his countries military aviation pioneers and not endorse the atrocities committed by the Nazi party, IMO. If it was a bunch of SS douchebags or concentration camp guards then yea, that's a different story IMO.

Precisely my point. Apologies if my one word post was misleading - I am sighing at the apparent overreaction to this.

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1 hour ago, Lockjaw said:

Precisely my point. Apologies if my one word post was misleading - I am sighing at the apparent overreaction to this.

And apologies also, my response wasn't directed at you. Just an observation to the subject and theme of the article.

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4 hours ago, FLEA said:

I think most Americans should watch the German period drama "Our Mothers and Our Fathers." 

Sounds like a good recommendation.  Looks like it's available on Amazon, with the US title "Generation War."

As a side note, it stars Volker Bruch, who also stars as Detective Gereon Rath in Babylon Berlin, a German neo-noir series that is still in production.  It's set in the inter-war years in Germany, and also shows the country's slide towards WWII.

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1 hour ago, Blue said:

Sounds like a good recommendation.  Looks like it's available on Amazon, with the US title "Generation War."

As a side note, it stars Volker Bruch, who also stars as Detective Gereon Rath in Babylon Berlin, a German neo-noir series that is still in production.  It's set in the inter-war years in Germany, and also shows the country's slide towards WWII.

Had to look it up. Didn't know it had a different release title in the US. 

Here's the theatrical trailer if anyone is interested. 

 

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On 6/27/2022 at 6:47 PM, Prozac said:

Are you in favor of providing any kind of support for those women who choose to carry to term? Many are single and can’t afford to leave the work force for any significant period of time. Or should we just force them to work through their pregnancy if they want to keep their job? Maybe give them a day or two off to actually give birth? What about mental health support for things like postpartum depression? Think most of these women have great healthcare plans? Yeah, yeah, guess they should’ve thought of that before they decided to be promiscuous (typically uttered by dudes that would’ve banged pretty much any available warm hole in their 20s). 

I am in favor of providing support to women who carry their babies to full term. Actually, a lot of people are and operate crisis pregnancy centers around the country, completely without taxpayer support!! However, lately they’ve been the recipients of a great deal of arson, vandalism, and other cowardly forms of attack from the champions of “choice.” And since I’m using quotes, I’d also like to give a big shout out to the Supreme Court for their recent ruling that has, at least for the past few days, granted the American Left the freedom to use the word “woman” again!  Because “menstruating person” was extremely “offensive” to “persons” who do other stuff besides walking around bleeding everywhere all the time. 

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Grammar
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